Billy & Teddy's Excellent Adventure: Wiccan & Hulkling Appreciation

[Ibara]

I'm really hoping they'll pop up somewhere soon, they definitely have a fanbase eager to see them.

I like the name Legacy for Teddy - other names that have crossed my mind are Exalt, Scion, Caliber, and Claymore. I also think Teddy needs to ditch the green, I understand as part skrull it makes sense, but its not even his default form/color. Every time he's knocked out he reverts to his human form and with the changes that have happened to Chulk/Brawn he's been further edged out. Perhaps let him make more creative use of his shape changing for strength, agility, or even different sword forms with spacesword.

Arcane is definitely perfect for Billy, but I don't think he's in need of a name change as much as Hulkling. While there are definitely problems with Wiccan, its readily identifiable if anything.

[King_Thor13]

Legacy or Scion are great codenames for Teddy. He's outgrown 'Hulkling', and there's not really any need to tie his identity to Hulk anymore, now that we know his origins. It'd be much better to highlight his ties to Mar-Vell. I don't think a costume change is a necessity, but I'm not opposed to it either. It'd be cool to see him change up his shapeshifting more often too, going blue like some of the Kree for example.

Annoyed is an understatement to how I feel. Billy and Teddy are put in this really awkward position where literally everything about their backstories and family connections could make for several interesting stories and keep them relevant in the MU, but no one's doing that. If we go through 2019 without nothing on them again I swear I'm fucking done with Marvel (just kidding, I'll still be on board... but I will definitely be bitching about it).

Anyway, look at this adorbs fanart I found on Tumblr:

I continue to be annoyed that the Maximoff retcon severs ties to Magneto and Polaris regarding Billy & Tommy and that their X-Gene may have been revoked. As for Teddy, I'm hoping that with Carol Danvers getting her own installment in the MCU next year that characters with ties to the Kree and Skrulls will get a push in the comics. But yeah, it's a real waste to have such great characters on the sidelines, when then are dozens of tales to tell involving our YA sweethearts. I'll keep waiting on a YA relaunch (with Kate + America accounted for, I'll take Billy, Teddy, Tommy, Cassie, Anya & Singularity)

That art is sooooooo cute. It's pretty amazing that, despite irregular appearances, the pair are one of the few inseparable couples in the MU

[Digifiend]

That's a sound lineup suggestion, I'd just add Patriot (Rayshaun Lucas) to it. Without him Anya would be your only ethnic character, plus there's always been a Captain America analogue, it's the reason Chavez was added to the team when Eli was unavailable.

[Drops Of Venus]

I continue to be annoyed that the Maximoff retcon severs ties to Magneto and Polaris regarding Billy & Tommy and that their X-Gene may have been revoked. As for Teddy, I'm hoping that with Carol Danvers getting her own installment in the MCU next year that characters with ties to the Kree and Skrulls will get a push in the comics. But yeah, it's a real waste to have such great characters on the sidelines, when then are dozens of tales to tell involving our YA sweethearts. I'll keep waiting on a YA relaunch (with Kate + America accounted for, I'll take Billy, Teddy, Tommy, Cassie, Anya & Singularity)

That art is sooooooo cute. It's pretty amazing that, despite irregular appearances, the pair are one of the few inseparable couples in the MU

I'm not so worried about Billy not being Magneto's grandson or a mutant (not that he was ever confirmed to be one in the first place) anymore, because even though that was a loss, there was also a gain when the recent Scarlet Witch solo gave her a new origin through Natalya Maximoff. We even found out that Wanda's grandfather called himself Scarlet Warlock, which opens some legacy possibilities for Billy too. How does he feel about his spiritual ties to the Maximoffs, their customs and traditions? This is something worth exploring. Plus, there is always the possibility that Magneto will be established as Wanda's father again, as they left her father's identity a mystery. And then there's Vision and that crazy family tree of his. Wanda and Viz alone offer so many possibilities for Billy and Tommy, and yet they barely appeared in the SW solo, and were completely absent from The Vision solo. Now Vision's getting a miniseries, and the solicit says that ''all Vision has left is Viv'', ignoring the fact that he has two goddamn kids everyone keeps forgetting about. It's just pure editorial negligence and it pisses me off so much.

I'm also someone who's hoping that the Captain Marvel movie might help Teddy in some way, specially considering they are adapting the Kree/Skrull War (which sets the stage for his origin story) in that movie, and we know how comics love their synergy, so it's possible we have some Kree/Skrull conflicts coming up to mirror that, which could naturally bring Teddy to the spotlight.

And yeah, Billy and Teddy have pretty much solidified themselves as the Reed/Sue of the gay community, which is why it's specially frustrating that Marvel hasn't been smart enough to take advantage of that status and push them more as a part of their diversity initiative.

[Beetle]

The Scarlet Witch solo was a mess. Wanda should not be an authority on all things magic around the entire damn world, she didn't start her mystical training until like half way through her superhero career.
All of the mystical legacy names that Robinson created that were "color + title" were uncreative as hell, not to mention made no sense once you tried to translate them back to the original language or context that they would have been used in.

Natalya Maximoff was a terrible retcon. And Scarlet Warlock is a terrible name because as Billy once pointed out the word "Warlock" means oathbreaker, someone tied to a mystical tradition shouldn't willingly call himself that.

[Digifiend]

Would Scarlet Wizard have worked better?

[King_Thor13]

That's a sound lineup suggestion, I'd just add Patriot (Rayshaun Lucas) to it. Without him, Anya would be your only ethnic character, plus there's always been a Captain America analogue, it's the reason Chavez was added to the team when Eli was unavailable.

On second thought I'd bring in Robbie Reyes too, who would be a great fit for the team and I've mentioned multiple timed before. Singularity is the only one on the team I proposed that I'm unsure about- WCA, Champions or Runaways might be better for her.

As for the new Patriot, he seems too young, which sounds ridiculous given it's the Young Avengers, but with the others all a few years ahead, and more seasoned heroes, I'm not sure Rayshaun would be a great fit. Do they really need a Captain America counterpart? I don't think it's necessary myself.

Gentle would be awesome, representing both the X-Men and Wakanda. Speaking of Wakanda, Shuri is someone I keep coming back to. Her solo indicates she might take up the Panther mantle once more (or at least the suit). Her presence among the somewhat laid-back New Yorkers would be neat. Manifold, Ahura, Inferno and White Tiger (Ava Ayala) are candidates I considered too, bringing unique skillsets and backgrounds to the team. Honestly, Wiccan, Hulkling, Speed & Spider-Girl are the core members I want on the YA, and anyone else I mentioned would be a plus.

I'm not so worried about Billy not being Magneto's grandson or a mutant (not that he was ever confirmed to be one in the first place) anymore, because even though that was a loss, there was also a gain when the recent Scarlet Witch solo gave her a new origin through Natalya Maximoff. We even found out that Wanda's grandfather called himself Scarlet Warlock, which opens some legacy possibilities for Billy too. How does he feel about his spiritual ties to the Maximoffs, their customs and traditions? This is something worth exploring. Plus, there is always the possibility that Magneto will be established as Wanda's father again, as they left her father's identity a mystery. And then there's Vision and that crazy family tree of his. Wanda and Viz alone offer so many possibilities for Billy and Tommy, and yet they barely appeared in the SW solo and were completely absent from The Vision solo. Now Vision's getting a miniseries, and the solicit says that ''all Vision has left is Viv'', ignoring the fact that he has two goddamn kids everyone keeps forgetting about. It's just pure editorial negligence and it pisses me off so much.

I'm also someone who's hoping that the Captain Marvel movie might help Teddy in some way, specially considering they are adapting the Kree/Skrull War (which sets the stage for his origin story) in that movie, and we know how comics love their synergy, so it's possible we have some Kree/Skrull conflicts coming up to mirror that, which could naturally bring Teddy to the spotlight.

And yeah, Billy and Teddy have pretty much solidified themselves as the Reed/Sue of the gay community, which is why it's especially frustrating that Marvel hasn't been smart enough to take advantage of that status and push them more as a part of their diversity initiative.

I think it was a shame just because it meant that a whole portion of the family tree was lost, and a really interesting one at that. The House of Magnus has always been one of my favorite families in Marvel, but now Billy and Tommy aren't apart of that. Instead, they're tied to the deceased Natalya Maximoff and an unknown father. Yes, it opened new avenues to explore, but I do think that the previously established familial connections were far more interesting, or at least they were to me. An exploration of a history of magic and inheritance of it is a promising tale, but it's not the one I would've opted for. As for the X-Gene, I would have liked them to have it, despite never having been proven as mutants, just because there are so few non-X-Men mutants out there, and their inclusion in that community presents new stories too. As you mentioned though, I suppose it's possible that Natalya and Erik met somewhere along the way, and there could be a revelation that Magneto is, in fact, Wanda + Pietro's father after all. I'd be okay with that. Then you get the best of both worlds.
Too often are writers forgetting that Vision fathered the twins, and that familial connection is ignored altogether. Given his relationship with Wanda was, and still is, one of the most important parts of his history, he should definetly still be involved. And even the spectacular Vision solo book seemed to have forgotten- it was all about family, but the twins are ignored altogether. I mean, through that side of the family, Billy and Tommy are 'related' to Viv, Victor Mancha, Ultron, Jocasta, Hank Pym etc.

After rumors of an older Cassie in A4 and beyond, some have speculated a Young Avengers installment in the MCU could be on its way. The Kree/Skrull war in Captain Marvel would be a great place to feature Teddy in some capacity, or at least leave room for him tocome into play at a later point. Either way, I'm sure the film will bring more interest to the Kree and Skrulls, so we might see some of them back in the comic pages soon.

Exactly. I'd hoped that after New Avengers they'd continue to be in use but they've pretty much been abandoned since then and it's driving me nuts

[Digifiend]

Cassie's only 16 remember. The YA and Champions take their members from the same pool. Amadeus and Cassie were once on the Mighty Avengers together. Rayshaun's not too young.

Robbie's on the adult Avengers, so he's out of the running.

Champions and Runaways are viable places for Singularity, you're right about that. She was on A-Force with Nico of course, so I'd been expecting her to show up in Runaways and yet she didn't. Instead, it seems she's going to appear in Ms. Marvel (G Willow Wilson wrote the Secret Wars A-Force mini and thus is Blue's creator) - which means she knows a Champion. West Coast Avengers of course has the same writer as the A-Force "ongoing", Kelly Thompson, so I can see why you mentioned that too.

[nj06]

I would love to see Ava as a member of the Young Avengers. She has always been a favorite of mine and I think she still has a ton of untapped potential.

[Beetle]

Would Scarlet Wizard have worked better?

Maybe, though I don't think it's very catchy.

Honestly as long as it was connected to the Natalya Maximoff retcon I'd probably hate it. Wanda just so happening to choose the same codename as her long lost mother who she'd never heard of (and was also secretly the sister of the crazy man who once tried to turn her into a puppet) and who's mystical powers are completely unconnected to the probability altering or chaos magic not!mutant powers that the High Evolutionary gave her is just a headache.

Personally I'm not a fan of Rayshaun joining the Young Avengers since he'd obviously be a cheap replacement for Eli. It would be like replacing Cassie with Nadia or Jonas with Viv. You could do it but it's like saying these characters aren't worth more than the archetypes they represent on the team. Eli has relationships and ties to the other Young Avengers, he was a founding member and he has history with this team, and just replacing him with another black kid as if they're interchangeable seems disrespectful.

Ava joining could be cool though, she has ties to Billy and Teddy through the New Avengers. Robbie Reyes should replace Quentin on the WCA

[King_Thor13]

Cassie's only 16 remember. The YA and Champions take their members from the same pool. Amadeus and Cassie were once on the Mighty Avengers together. Rayshaun's not too young.

Robbie's on the adult Avengers, so he's out of the running.

Champions and Runaways are viable places for Singularity, you're right about that. She was on A-Force with Nico of course, so I'd been expecting her to show up in Runaways and yet she didn't. Instead, it seems she's going to appear in Ms. Marvel (G Willow Wilson wrote the Secret Wars A-Force mini and thus is Blue's creator) - which means she knows a Champion. West Coast Avengers, of course, has the same writer as the A-Force "ongoing", Kelly Thompson, so I can see why you mentioned that too.

I tend to forget that she's younger than the others. Kate is in her early 20s, and I'm pretty sure Billy, Teddy, Tommy & America are 18ish.

I don't think Robbie will stick with the 'adult' Avengers, just because I don't think he's that compatible. I love that he got some exposure with the A-listers, but I'd be happy with him to go elsewhere. Young Avengers is as good a place as any, and I think he'd have some great interactions with the characters there.

Champions is pretty full, so unless if she's a guest star she probably won't show up there. She'd be great in Runaways, but idk if Rainbow Rowell has any interest. I think she'd be invested though, and I'm sure Anka could draw a really cute Singularity. When did Singularity get mentioned as being in Ms. Marvel??

[Drops Of Venus]

The Scarlet Witch solo was a mess. Wanda should not be an authority on all things magic around the entire damn world, she didn't start her mystical training until like half way through her superhero career.
All of the mystical legacy names that Robinson created that were "color + title" were uncreative as hell, not to mention made no sense once you tried to translate them back to the original language or context that they would have been used in.

Natalya Maximoff was a terrible retcon. And Scarlet Warlock is a terrible name because as Billy once pointed out the word "Warlock" means oathbreaker, someone tied to a mystical tradition shouldn't willingly call himself that.

Well, legacy isn't just about specific names. Wiccan and Speed were created as legacy characters, even though their names didn't really represent that. All I'm saying is he could learn a thing or two with this newfound heritage. He doesn't need to necessarily call himself Scarlet Warlock to represent that legacy, and if he had to change his name for some reason, he could just use it as an inspiration to create a new identity for himself. Maybe he'd call himself Crimson Mage, or any other derivation of the title theme he found fitter. But if you hate the retcon and everything associated with it, then agree to disagree. I prefer Wanda being related to the Maximoffs and all of the romani/mystic culture on her mother's side than anything Magda had to offer, tbh.

[Digifiend]

Champions is pretty full, so unless if she's a guest star she probably won't show up there. She'd be great in Runaways, but idk if Rainbow Rowell has any interest. I think she'd be invested though, and I'm sure Anka could draw a really cute Singularity. When did Singularity get mentioned as being in Ms. Marvel??

Wilson's Twitter.

[Beetle]

Well, legacy isn't just about specific names. Wiccan and Speed were created as legacy characters, even though their names didn't really represent that. All I'm saying is he could learn a thing or two with this newfound heritage. He doesn't need to necessarily call himself Scarlet Warlock to represent that legacy, and if he had to change his name for some reason, he could just use it as an inspiration to create a new identity for himself. Maybe he'd call himself Crimson Mage, or any other derivation of the title theme he found fitter. But if you hate the retcon and everything associated with it, then agree to disagree. I prefer Wanda being related to the Maximoffs and all of the romani/mystic culture on her mother's side than anything Magda had to offer, tbh.

But a recurring theme in Robinson's Scarlet Witch was the mystical power of those names and how they relate to legacies.

And Magda was Romani as well, not only that but she was a holocaust survivor. As someone who's been raised Jewish all his life, that should matter to Billy. The mystical Romani stuff with Natalya just feels like it plays into tropes and stereotypes too much, it's messy and it doesn't feel well researched.

[Drops Of Venus]

Wilson's Twitter.

Oh, I wasn't aware of this. Definitely sounds like she's talking about Singularity. It'll be nice to see her again.

And Magda was Romani as well, not only that but she was a holocaust survivor. As someone who's been raised Jewish all his life, that should matter to Billy. The mystical Romani stuff with Natalya just feels like it plays into tropes and stereotypes too much, it's messy and it doesn't feel well researched.

I honestly didn't even remember Magda was supposed to be romani, which just exemplifies what bothered me about the character: she was so underdeveloped and felt like a prop on Erik's story just to explain the existence of the twins. It really didn't feel like there was more to the character than that. Her romani heritage felt like an afterthought just so they could say ''hey, the Maximoffs are still romani''. I was sold on Robinson's portrayal of Natalya as a character a lot more than Magda's portrayal under anyone, because at least she felt like a real character with perspective and point of view. As for tropes and stereotypes, yeah, those can be bad, but that's what you hire diverse writers and/or consultants for, and hopefully that's something they'll keep in mind for future books. If they're in doubt, there is help they can get from people with authentic views on the subject. It's certainly better to try than to just ignore and leave it erased.

----

Speaking of parents' legacy, I came across this on Tumblr and I can't stop laughing:



Is this from an actual cartoon? And is that supposed to be Anelle? 'Cause I'm totally headcanon-ing that right now, and it makes me so amused. Specially because of Carol's face.