ULTIMATE TRUTH! How do CBR posters feel about Iceman being gay?

[Kurolegacy]

Pretty much. Its cast a shadow not just on him, his relationships, but also all his PSYCHIC "friends" including Charles Xavier, than man who whole mission in life was supposedly getting people to expect who they are and each other despite their differences.

EDIT: Being called a homophobe for having said opinion-despite entire gay forums having the same consensus- is just icing on the cake.

Yea I definitely agree. Hell when this was revealed, I saw at numerous different forums people who were LGBT even saying that the revelation was trash and even just insulting. Are we really gonna call people who are themselves gay homophobic for not liking this?

And one thing that really gets me are people who keep saying that they somehow like him more now that he's gay or that he should get a solo. Those are the worst kinds of "fans" if you ask me because at that point it's showing that they don't really care about the character of the character and what that retroactively means for the 50+ years of history, all they really care about is something as superficial as the sexuality (possibly matching their own). That imo is not a fan and if I were a creator, that would never be the kind of fans that I'd ever want because that's about as far away from genuine appreciation that it gets.

And for Marvel to say that this doesn't change the character, they're full of the utmost of crap. Not only did they retcon his sexuality, they continuously went on and on and on about it as though that was all that there was to the character to them. That now that he's gay, they can just parade him as their A-lister gay character. When what sexuality the character is becomes more important than anything else about the character, your priorities are in the wrong place. You do nothing to assure the fans that nothing is going to change and drive full force that that's all there will be to the character from then on. Iceman's fans have the right to be angered at this and I feel they deserved much better.

[Timbales]

maybe we'll have a future scene that shows Xavier as a massive homophobe who mentally compelled Adult Bobby to be closeted for years

[ZNOP]

maybe we'll have a future scene that shows Xavier as a massive homophobe who mentally compelled Adult Bobby to be closeted for years

It's plainly apparent that you're trying to imply something here... Why not just come out and say it?

[Star_Jammer]

If I notice that somebody is claiming to be a vegetarian that actually eats meat (and I mean on a regular basis, not an occasional lapse, btw), then the way they are abusing the English language may not be physically painful to me, but it does detract from the function of language, which is clarity in conveying meaning. Agreed upon definitions of terms are actually important, since without them you can never be sure if you understand what anybody is trying to say.

In this instance, a vegetarian is somebody who does not eat meat, so if you do eat meat (again, regularly), you are not one, and if you say you are I will point out that you are misusing the term. Depending on whether you seem to be deliberately lying or merely clueless or ignorant, my tone in doing so may vary.

I'm a banana. And who are you to tell me I'm wrong.

[Timbales]

I doubt you're that appeeling.

[Star_Jammer]

I doubt you're that appeeling.

Ohohoho...

[numberthirty]

And for Marvel to say that this doesn't change the character, they're full of the utmost of crap. Not only did they retcon his sexuality, they continuously went on and on and on about it as though that was all that there was to the character to them.

Jeez...

Bobby's past up until the conversation still exists unchanged. Nothing has been retconned. The only thing they are pointing out is that we may not have seen Bobby's entire inner monologue.

As for the sexuality being more important than the character, you are talking about something that you just can't prove. How is Bobby being gay any more important than Logan being straight? We have certainly seen far more of one than the other.

[Star_Jammer]

Jeez...

Bobby's past up until the conversation still exists unchanged. Nothing has been retconned. The only thing they are pointing out is that we may not have seen Bobby's entire inner monologue.

As for the sexuality being more important than the character, you are talking about something that you just can't prove. How is Bobby being gay any more important than Logan being straight? We have certainly seen far more of one than the other.

I mean...it actually has.

But, oh jeez...here we go again with the "using words for their meaning" again.

[Star_Jammer]

Some people have quoted Marjorie Liu's opinion on Iceman's post-outing, as if she were an X-pert (heh) on writing the character (no offense, Ms. Liu).

Here's a very interesting tidbit from a pre-outing interview though:

3) I'm not sure if you're aware but there is a very vocal group that's convinced that Iceman is in the closet. Given you're writing a story about his relationships with women in a very gay-friendly book what's your take on the theory?

Listen, it's fun to look for undercurrents and create alternate relationships for our favorite characters! Just think about Kirk and Spock, or "Supernatural's" Dean and Castiel -- heck, "Hawaii 5-0's" "bromance/romance" between Steve and Danno is part of their actual advertising! Personally, I love to play with sexuality in my work, and tease relationships, possibilities and so on. But do I think Bobby is gay? Who knows? In some ways -- maybe in every way -- that's up to the reader to decide. What I will say, though, is that Bobby has always been written as a straight man, and what I love about him as a straight man is that he's like the "everyman": the guy who has daddy issues (and other problems), and who has got no game, whatsoever, when it comes to picking up girls. The dude who is always the "really good friend" but never the "boyfriend." For me, that's what Bobby represents. But if he ends up coming out of the closet, that's cool, too.

[numberthirty]

"May" means that existing continuity may have stayed exactly the same. Exact same feelings at the time are seen differently when you are reflecting on them in issue #600.

Since you don't have Bobby's inner monologue at the time. I have no reason to believe anything has changed.

Therefore, no retcon.

Using the word exactly as it is defined. Might want to consider the meaning of a definition before you decide someone doesn't understand it.

[AJpyro]

Jeez...

Bobby's past up until the conversation still exists unchanged. Nothing has been retconned. The only thing they are pointing out is that we may not have seen Bobby's entire inner monologue.

As for the sexuality being more important than the character, you are talking about something that you just can't prove. How is Bobby being gay any more important than Logan being straight? We have certainly seen far more of one than the other.

But isn't All New Xmen basically an ongoing retcon?

[Star_Jammer]

"May" means that existing continuity may have stayed exactly the same. Exact same feelings at the time are seen differently when you are reflecting on them in issue #600.

Since you don't have Bobby's inner monologue at the time. I have no reason to believe anything has changed.

Therefore, no retcon.

Using the word exactly as it is defined. Might want to consider the meaning of a definition before you decide someone doesn't understand it.

"The common situation in fiction where a new story "reveals" things about events in previous stories, usually leaving the "facts" the same (thus preserving continuity) while completely changing their interpretation. For example, revealing that a whole season of "Dallas" was a dream was a retcon. "

Where is the word "may" in the words above (taken directly from the definition I linked; you read it, correct?)? (please note the bolded)

[numberthirty]

Some people have quoted Marjorie Liu's opinion on Iceman's post-outing, as if she were an X-pert (heh) on writing the character (no offense, Ms. Liu).

Here's a very interesting tidbit from a pre-outing interview though:

3) I'm not sure if you're aware but there is a very vocal group that's convinced that Iceman is in the closet. Given you're writing a story about his relationships with women in a very gay-friendly book what's your take on the theory?

Listen, it's fun to look for undercurrents and create alternate relationships for our favorite characters! Just think about Kirk and Spock, or "Supernatural's" Dean and Castiel -- heck, "Hawaii 5-0's" "bromance/romance" between Steve and Danno is part of their actual advertising! Personally, I love to play with sexuality in my work, and tease relationships, possibilities and so on. But do I think Bobby is gay? Who knows? In some ways -- maybe in every way -- that's up to the reader to decide. What I will say, though, is that Bobby has always been written as a straight man, and what I love about him as a straight man is that he's like the "everyman": the guy who has daddy issues (and other problems), and who has got no game, whatsoever, when it comes to picking up girls. The dude who is always the "really good friend" but never the "boyfriend." For me, that's what Bobby represents. But if he ends up coming out of the closet, that's cool, too.

Looks like she knew something she didn't even know she knew.

[Star_Jammer]

Looks like she knew something she didn't even know she knew.

That some guys aren't boyfriend material?

Cool. It happens. I know a few of them. Totally self-centered douchebags, btw.

[numberthirty]

"The common situation in fiction where a new story "reveals" things about events in previous stories, usually leaving the "facts" the same (thus preserving continuity) while completely changing their interpretation. For example, revealing that a whole season of "Dallas" was a dream was a retcon. "

Where is the word "may" in the words above (taken directly from the definition I linked; you read it, correct?)? (please note the bolded)

Jeez...

Gay man comes out after being married and raising family. Doesn't mean any of the things that happened are different.

It means who he is today is different.

Your Dallas example is the obvious one. One thing actually happened. One did not. You have no proof that Bobby's thoughts during the past are anything but what they appeared to be. Certainly no "Revelation" as in the Dallas example.

Apple vs. orange.