ULTIMATE TRUTH! How do CBR posters feel about Iceman being gay?

[RandyMcDonald]

It's a theory that made sense to me when I heard it, but I was never invested in it. The idea of Bobby being deeply closeted did have some explanatory power, but a lot of ideas also had explanatory power. I would have been perfectly fine with a relationship between a straight Bobby and Kitty.

[Confuzzled]

Very pleased. I always loved the character's powerset, visuals and goofy personality, but nobody really did anything particularly interesting with him. Add to the fact that he was constantly surrounded by far more gripping characters, Bobby always faded into the background. All of his relationships were pretty meh and he was increasingly getting dull, something that I thought even Liu couldn't prevent with her Astonishing arc.

The difference between what Bobby had potential to become and what he had actually become was glaring once Teen Bobby arrived on the scene and reminded us how plucky he was. There really was no doubt that he was the more appealing character between the Bobbys. I actually started to wish that Adult Bobby would kick the bucket and Teen would take his place instead.

But this revelation changes ALL OF THAT! Bobby being closeted for most of his life not only makes sense, it adds all kinds of layers to his character and previous behavior, giving insipid moments and actions a whole lot of fascinating subtext. And as much as people argue that a retcon is always a lazy attempt at diversity, I strongly disagree in this case. For one, I don't really think of it as a retcon as the development fits with his psychology and backstory with his father and girlfriends. And secondly, as has been pointed out a million times on these boards, there do exist people who are deeply closeted, in denial and in straight relationships no less. When it comes to LGBT representation, it is usually the better option to have characters who are out and proud since adolescence or characters whose sexuality hasn't been revealed yet. But Bobby's reveal makes him representation for a smaller under-represented subset of people within a larger group of under-represented individuals. Bobby is yet another unique chapter in the ongoing LGBT representation narrative, so he and his story should be wholly embraced. Just my two cents.

[MYCMTSC]

It is literally the only interesting development he's had...ever.

[Optimus]

I don't care that he's gay, but I hate massive retcons.

It is literally the only interesting development he's had...ever.

Is it really even all that interesting? It's not like gay characters in comics is anything new. If writers had been hinting and teasing it and building it for many years, then maybe, but it's like nick fury. He isn't more interesting because they decided to make him black.

[RandyMcDonald]

When it comes to LGBT representation, it is usually the better option to have characters who are out and proud since adolescence or characters whose sexuality hasn't been revealed yet. But Bobby's reveal makes him representation for a smaller under-represented subset of people within a larger group of under-represented individuals. Bobby is yet another unique chapter in the ongoing LGBT representation narrative, so he and his story should be wholly embraced. Just my two cents.

I'm not sure about that. Someone being closeted into their late 20s is not unusual, especially if the person was born earlier. I came out at 22 in 2002, perhaps late and in a not terribly religious or homophobic environment. Bobby had his own set of issues, much more acutely, from a fairly early age.

[Kalen O.]

Personally, I think this poll could use an option for 'think it was a missed opportunity to make him bi', given the number of people who have expressed they would've preferred Bendis revealed him as bisexual due to wanting to keep his previous relationships as defined as actual romantic interests rather than the results of confusion/exploration/denial.

[Confuzzled]

I'm not sure about that. Someone being closeted into their late 20s is not unusual, especially if the person was born earlier. I came out at 22 in 2002, perhaps late and in a not terribly religious or homophobic environment. Bobby had his own set of issues, much more acutely, from a fairly early age.

I was just talking about representation. I'd prefer a character who is out or is shown to be aware of their closeted feelings early on in their appearance. But this is a very special case, seeing how Bobby was created in the early 60's, we've had actual decades of him trying to fit the heteronormative mode. So it gives us a very unique instance in fiction that is equivalent to knowing a person for years but largely being unaware of him being closeted and as a result, we were mostly oblivious to his suffering.

[RandyMcDonald]

Personally, I think this poll could use an option for 'think it was a missed opportunity to make him bi', given the number of people who have expressed they would've preferred Bendis revealed him as bisexual due to wanting to keep his previous relationships as defined as actual romantic interests rather than the results of confusion/exploration/denial.

I'm not sure there's much difference, necessarily. As he describes it, he tried relationships with women at times when he thought maybe they'd work.

I was just talking about representation. I'd prefer a character who is out or is shown to be aware of their closeted feelings early on in their appearance. But this is a very special case, seeing how Bobby was created in the early 60's, we've had actual decades of him trying to fit the heteronormative mode. So it gives us a very unique instance in fiction that is equivalent to knowing a person for years but largely being unaware of him being closeted and as a result, we were mostly oblivious to his suffering.

Good point.

[Kalen O.]

I'm not sure there's much difference, necessarily. As he describes it, he tried relationships with women at times when he thought maybe they'd work.

Wait, you don't think there's any difference in having previous relationships with women you were genuinely attracted to and romantically interested in but failed anyway - and having previous relationships with women that never had a chance of working because you WEREN'T genuinely attracted to them and were only with because you were lying to either yourself or to them?

There's a huge difference.

I'm just saying, it's inherently problematic to be discussing people's opinions and reactions to this specific storyline as though Iceman being gay and Iceman being straight were the only options.

[RandyMcDonald]

Wait, you don't think there's any difference in having previous relationships with women you were genuinely attracted to and romantically interested in but failed anyway - and having previous relationships with women that never had a chance of working because you WEREN'T genuinely attracted to them and were only with because you were lying to either yourself or to them?

There's a huge difference.

It's not clear to me in this case that Bobby did not think that he might be genuinely attracted to them. He was coming from a place of profound denial about his sexual orientation, yes, but it does not seem as if he didn't like them, or as if he was using them as cover while he led a double life.

"And the years go by and it gets easier to put that part of yourself away. And then so much time goes by that ... You say to yourself, late at night: One day, maybe. And then you do things to see if maybe you're straight or ... ugh."

It wasn't a good way to deal, but I'm not sure Bobby thought that he was lying to them.

[Kalen O.]

It's not clear to me in this case that Bobby did not think that he might be genuinely attracted to them. He was coming from a place of profound denial about his sexual orientation, yes, but it does not seem as if he didn't like them, or as if he was using them as cover while he led a double life.

"And the years go by and it gets easier to put that part of yourself away. And then so much time goes by that ... You say to yourself, late at night: One day, maybe. And then you do things to see if maybe you're straight or ... ugh."

It wasn't a good way to deal, but I'm not sure Bobby thought that he was lying to them.

I understand that perspective. (Which is also why I made a point to say he could also have just been lying to himself, which is...kinda...what denial is?) I'm simply saying that it doesn't change the fact that there still is a significant difference in how his previous relationships are framed in one scenario vs the other.

And it definitely doesn't change the fact that there should not be a discussion about how people feel about him being gay without acknowledging the fact that there was always a third option, with people being completely justified in wishing and believing he'd have been revealed as bisexual instead.

I'm repeating that you're entitled to your opinion on this and to be happy with the outcome. All I'm saying is that as much as you're pleased to see your specific experiences represented here, there are many of us who were hoping for the exact same thing when viewing this as an opportunity for bisexual representation. So yes, we're disappointed, but acting like our viewpoints aren't even worth representing in a discussion about Bobby's sexuality and the story it played out in goes beyond that.

[DurararaFTW]

I only care in that Kitty, Polaris and other characters don't get paired up with the most childish X-Man ever anymore.

[diabaz]

It's not clear to me in this case that Bobby did not think that he might be genuinely attracted to them. He was coming from a place of profound denial about his sexual orientation, yes, but it does not seem as if he didn't like them, or as if he was using them as cover while he led a double life.

"And the years go by and it gets easier to put that part of yourself away. And then so much time goes by that ... You say to yourself, late at night: One day, maybe. And then you do things to see if maybe you're straight or ... ugh."

It wasn't a good way to deal, but I'm not sure Bobby thought that he was lying to them.

That the biggest problem about HOW it was revealed. Ok may be Iceman wasn't sure about his sexuality first time he dated girl maybe not second. But he did it many times. And look how easily he admited his sexuality than the question was force on him. He didn't look like a man in deep denial, just like a man that always run from any problems.

"And the years go by and it gets easier to put that part of yourself away. And then so much time goes by that ... You say to yourself, late at night: One day, maybe. And then you do things to see if maybe you're straight or ... ugh."
So each time he started relationship he wasn't atracted to girl he just wanted to try be straight. So he lied to almost every girl he dated. Great.

[ChildOfTheAtom]

Create a gay character. I like Northstar he should have his own comic and movie. Don't make Iceman gay.

[Moondoggie]

About the same way I feel about anyone being gay I just don't care. Iceman being gay doesn't make a whole lot of difference to anything he'll just have relationships with guys instead of girls from now on. People tend to get more upset about these kinds of things than they need to be he's just a fictional character that can be moulded and changed at will and an old character so through different times things become more acceptable than they were. There are still tons of straight X Men characters out there.

The whole "Oh but he dated female characters" thing well lots of gay people have marriages and children because they feel that's the normal thing to do and worry about what the people around them will think of them. It's entirely possible he carried feelings with him for years and buried them with relationships with women who he probably did genuinely care for but was forcing himself to be attracted to them sexually. This happens in real life too. Could the reveal have been done better? Yes. It was all very rushed with Bendis trying to leave his mark as quickly as possible and some more build up would have been nice but it is what it is. Him being gay doesn't change much at all.