Is Green Arrow being cancelled?

[Starchild]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/11/...-feel-the-cut/

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

When Oliver Queen entered the Silver Age I jumped on board with the Brave and the Bold #85 "The Senator's Been Shot!" Writer's like Denny O'Neil, Mike Grell, Chuck Dixon, Kevin Smith, Brad Meltzer, James Robinson, Ande Parks, and Judd Winick kept the integrity of the character intact. Ollie was a man of the people, an anti-establishment, wears his heart on his sleeve old lefty with a big mouth. And I loved the character. Perhaps I've lost some perspective and objectivity because I'm so passionate about the Silver Age/Bronze Green Arrow I grew up with. I do remember some Golden Age GA fans being opposed to Ollie's Silver Age transformation. They hated Ollie's Van Dyke beard and his liberal/leftist views.

[Frontier]

I don't think Robert Venditti (even though Van Jensen is also on Flash) or Brett Booth were widely criticized talent when they were given Flash, at least Venditti was a relatively fresh creative talent with success at Valiant, and I'm not sure if Booth has always been a widely divisive artist. It's just their Flash run progressively got worse and worse, so in hindsight they may not have been a good choice for the book. Same with the Finches on Wonder Woman or Cullen Bunn on Aquaman evidently.

From all accounts, when Green Arrow tried to really bring in readers from the show (with even the same writer from the show) it went over about as well as Marvel's attempt to synergize with their live action properties...not very well. The rocky start the character had and the constantly shifting creative teams and directions also probably didn't help.

[Starchild]

I would be nice if they gave Green Arrow a superstar team. Why should Batman be the only one with an A-list creative team?

[InSavnity]

The comics fans that are here came from somewhere, and whenever I personally look at testimonies for why people began reading comics, it's often because they saw a movie, or cartoon, or show. It doesn't matter what generation they come from. It could have been Superman II, Super Friends, Batman: The Animated Series, or Justice League Unlimited, or Smallville. But that remains a consistent reason from what I've personally seen.

There's always a degree of generational turnover for sure, otherwise superhero comic books would have stopped existing in the late Forties. What I don't see is a way to revert back to the times when 250,000 copies sold were the cancellation threshold of a comic book (the first Doom Patrol title was canned because it went under) instead of the most astounding success of the year. In fact, I think that terms like Golden Age and Silver Age are twice appropriate since comic companies can only dream of selling ten million copies with a single issue, nowadays.

It goes without saying that not a whole lot of people who watch the movies are going to read the comics, because typically, only the most hardcore and intrigued people will go and do that, but if the publishers can snag and keep even a tiny fraction of that, they've done well. I mean, look at Walking Dead. All it needs is a tiny amount of its viewers to buy its books and its a huge hit in the industry.

That's the point: keeping. As I'd already written in my first post, it's not unusual to see a first issue breaking the 100,000 psychological barrier, and it's even less unusual to see a 40/50% fall in readership one issue later. Rocket Raccoon #1 sold 300,000 units. How many of those buyers were back for issue #2? And issue #3? See the problem?

By the way, TWD caters to a public that is a lot more permeable than that of superhero comics. For some reason I can't really figure out, zombies have a weird effect on a lot of people. It's the reason they've become as ubiquitous as vampires in the horror genre. If we add that horror cultists are very dedicated to their genre I could see why many made the transition to the comic book format.

If Marvel put its biggest writer on a book with a hit film, then that shows they're all serious about getting the property over with people and having people read their comics and carrying that momentum over with the publications. That only makes sense. What doesn't make sense is putting Robert Venditti and Brett Booth, both widely criticized talent, on a Flash book when you're trying (IF you're trying) to get some of the television show watchers invested in reading the comic? That's bad business, and that's what DC does. It doesn't have to be that way. If they made better decisions with better foresight, you would see better results.

They would also have to radically reshape everything concerning those titles and the DC Universe at large, since the world that was crafted by the combined runs of both CW series is pretty much its own thing. Also, unforeseen instances like Harrison Wells becoming the show-stealer on The Flash or the very close continuity that's been developing in the CWverse for quite some time signal that there's little breathing space for an author to do something very close to the TV series but at the same time with enough free hand that s/he doesn't see his/her work as a mere appendix of that of the TV writers. On the other hand, the GOTG cast being made of stereotypes of stereotypes and the general plot of the movie being a glorified tie-in to a greater story mean that there's a lot more empty spaces to fill in a comic book that strictly adheres to what we have seen on film.

And by the way, I wonder where all that effort that Marvel is currently putting in GOTG goes hiding every time Fox releases an X-Men movie and it turns a good profit. I know, I know, orders from above, but it's unbelievable how things have changed since those times when applying the great X on a cover made a comic book sell like hotcakes.

[Desh]

There's always a degree of generational turnover for sure, otherwise superhero comic books would have stopped existing in the late Forties. What I don't see is a way to revert back to the times when 250,000 copies sold were the cancellation threshold of a comic book (the first Doom Patrol title was canned because it went under) instead of the most astounding success of the year. In fact, I think that terms like Golden Age and Silver Age are twice appropriate since comic companies can only dream of selling ten million copies with a single issue, nowadays.

I honestly don't know how to achieve that now. I don't know if that's even possible. I don't think reading for entertainment is as popular now as it was back in those days. If that's so, there's really not much to be done for that.

That's the point: keeping. As I'd already written in my first post, it's not unusual to see a first issue breaking the 100,000 psychological barrier, and it's even less unusual to see a 40/50% fall in readership one issue later. Rocket Raccoon #1 sold 300,000 units. How many of those buyers were back for issue #2? And issue #3? See the problem?

That drop off and attrition will always happen. However, if all the cards are played right, I think books with a lot of outside media support can, and should, see a spike in popularity. They don't necessarily need to gain hundreds of thousands of new readers, although that would be great, but there should be better results than what Green Arrow and The Flash are seeing. If DC cancelled and relaunched both books, I would understand why they would.

They would also have to radically reshape everything concerning those titles and the DC Universe at large, since the world that was crafted by the combined runs of both CW series is pretty much its own thing. Also, unforeseen instances like Harrison Wells becoming the show-stealer on The Flash or the very close continuity that's been developing in the CWverse for quite some time signal that there's little breathing space for an author to do something very close to the TV series but at the same time with enough free hand that s/he doesn't see his/her work as a mere appendix of that of the TV writers. On the other hand, the GOTG cast being made of stereotypes of stereotypes and the general plot of the movie being a glorified tie-in to a greater story mean that there's a lot more empty spaces to fill in a comic book that strictly adheres to what we have seen on film.

I don't believe the books need to mirror the shows exactly, although there should be very familiar elements to people, mostly with things like characters, but at the very least, they need to be of really good quality to hook people who might come over from the shows. I think comics are already a hard medium to get into and you definitely don't want to give people bad or uninteresting content as an introduction, which is what they may find to them if they read the beginning of the current Green Arrow volume or Flash. We all know people are very interested in these characters and concepts. The success of outside media says that, and I'm sure we all see loads of people wearing superhero shirts when we go out. The goal of the publishers should be to get some of those folks to actually read the comic books. Of course they won't get all of them, but even some will make a big difference. Just some could take Green Arrow from selling 20k regularly to 40 or even 35, which in comics--sad as it may be--is worlds of difference. And I'm pretty sure there won't just magically be a spike in readership with this current volume. To have a shot at that the book will need to relaunch. I'm not saying the readership positively will go up and stay there (because that depends on a lot of different things), but at least there's a shot at it with a new volume.

[DrNewGod]

I would be nice if they gave Green Arrow a superstar team. Why should Batman be the only one with an A-list creative team?

I'd love to see talent go to other characters, Hawkman and the Atom are screaming for help. I doubt TPTB would tolerate anything but their best talent on their most lucrative proprties, and (caveat: never having met a comics pro to my knowledge) I'd bet comic pros would rather work on the marquee titles, unless they've got a special jones for a particular character or a specific story that's just eating them alive to tell.

[Frontier]

I'd love to see talent go to other characters, Hawkman and the Atom are screaming for help. I doubt TPTB would tolerate anything but their best talent on their most lucrative proprties, and (caveat: never having met a comics pro to my knowledge) I'd bet comic pros would rather work on the marquee titles, unless they've got a special jones for a particular character or a specific story that's just eating them alive to tell.

Well so long as David Walker doesn't become Marvel exclusive, there's always potential for a Hawkman book from him .

Then again, he's doing Cyborg for DC and two books for Marvel (Power Man & Iron Fist plus Nighthawk), so I doubt he has time for another DC book unless he has the same output as Charles Soule.

[Starchild]

I'd love to see talent go to other characters, Hawkman and the Atom are screaming for help. I doubt TPTB would tolerate anything but their best talent on their most lucrative proprties, and (caveat: never having met a comics pro to my knowledge) I'd bet comic pros would rather work on the marquee titles, unless they've got a special jones for a particular character or a specific story that's just eating them alive to tell.

Writers limit themselves when they just want to work on the top tier characters. I'd rather write a character where I can build from the ground up.

[AUScowboy]

Sure hope not! I just added it to my pull list... and i really like this book as is. Last weeks issue was awesome, even with a bit of fill in art. Zircher is the next Jay Fabok, and yes, I can always use more super detailed comic art. These guys are the next Neal Adams IMO. Their mastery of the superhero anatomy is phenomenal. If only we could get away from DC's all armor every inch of every character edict...

[DevilBat66]

If anything, I agree that there might be a relaunch after #52, which might end up being true for more than just GA, but they aren't going to outright cancel Green Arrow.

I'm not hung up on numbering and if a relaunch and a new #1 helps keep the book going longer, I'm cool with that.

[Robotman]

I would be nice if they gave Green Arrow a superstar team. Why should Batman be the only one with an A-list creative team?

they had Lemire and Sorrentino on the title for a while and they produced one of the best GA runs in years. sadly the book's numbers remained terrible. so i don't know if a big name creative team could save it at this point. cancellation and a hyped relaunch may be the only way a Green Arrow book would have a chance at this point.

[JackDaw]

I would be nice if they gave Green Arrow a superstar team. Why should Batman be the only one with an A-list creative team?

I've read, and enjoyed, a lot of Green Arrow comics over the years.

But I just don't think that GA is a good lead character in present day mainstream DCU.

Frankly..I'd fancy my own chances with a suitable gun against any bow and arrow guy, however gifted. And put the bow and arrow man in a world where ruthless villains with substantial powers, and idea of him surviving beyond a week of serious action is completely risible.

If DC does have any super star creative teams, then I wholeheartedly believe they would be far better employed in creating a new successful character. And if they can't do that, then I certainly don't see them as "super stars".

[Rakzo]

they had Lemire and Sorrentino on the title for a while and they produced one of the best GA runs in years. sadly the book's numbers remained terrible. so i don't know if a big name creative team could save it at this point. cancellation and a hyped relaunch may be the only way a Green Arrow book would have a chance at this point.

Actually, the sales gained a considerable increase once that Lemire and Sorrentino arrived and it started to decrease halfway (which is what usually happens) while still maintaining decent numbers.

The problem is the recent numbers which are not really great.

[Zorkel567]

Did you actually write "hit TV-show" for something that's on "The CW"?

It's a hit for The CW. It does better than some shows on the main network, and it is often listed as one of the most pirated TV shows, just under Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead, so it has a lot of viewers overall.