How did Dick quit?

[DisneyBoy]

I have been looking around online to see how the character of Nightwing originally came to be and have discovered, to my surprise, that there have been several different issues and graphic novels telling the story of how Dick hung up his Robin costume and eventually became Nightwing. What I can't seem to figure out is how much these stories contradict one another in their presentation of the split between the sidekick and the master.

There is the pre-crisis version of events, which I think involved Dick going off to college and leaving the costume behind him as Bruce moved into the Wayne Enterprises penthouse...the post-crisis version, which I think involved Batman forbidding Dick from being Robin anymore after he got shot...and then there is the Nightwing graphic novel I just read a summary about which revisits the story by suggesting that Dick was fired...

Which of these versions line up with each other, and which don't? Which am I unaware of? Which are not worth mentioning? Which handled it the best?

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

The original version was far much better than what it was changed to. Originally Dick gave up being Robin as his own choice and took some time to find himself before being caught up in the Judas Contract event in Teen Titans and during that time he chose to take the name Nightwing in respect to all the people who have impacted his life in Batman, Superman, Starfire and the rest of the hero community. After the Crisis, The Dark Knight Returns and Nightwing moving back to the bat office that origin was retconned into him getting fired, going off and having superman tell him the story of Nightwing.

[Aahz]

The Verison are the are the following:

- The original pre crisis version was part of the Judas Contract Story line and Batman #368, here Dick gave up Robin being and gave the mantle to Jason

- The orginal post crisis version was in Batman 408 (which is also Jasons new Origin story), were batman fires Dick after he was shot

- And the rewritten version is Nightwing: Year One, were Batman fires him because he spends to much time with the Titans

- And finally there DCAU version in Batman Adventures - The Lost Years were Dick quits after getting into a fight with Bruce


Which handled it the best is hard to say. They have all good parts.

- pre crisis is the only Version were it happend without Bruce and Dick fighting or Dick getting fired (which always feels very forced), but on the other hand it didn't really explain why Dick chose the name Nightwing

- the original Post Crisis version is probably the "worst" version since it makes no sense (Dick was so often in dangerous situations and nearly died so getting shot is not big thing) only shows how Dick got fired and not how he became Nightwing, but this comic is about Jasons origin (and that version is quite good)

- In Nightwing: Year One Dick getting fired feels also forced but in this version you learn finally, were he got the name Nightwing and the Discowing-Costume

- And in the DCAU version you have Dick travelling the World and train for a year to become Nightwing, and it also contains the DCAU origin of Tim Drake (which is inspired by Jasons Origin)

[BohemiaDrinker]

IMHO, the original version was the best one, but I completely understand why they would retcon it; there was no point in having a a character under the bat-umbrella having his "origin" of sorts so tied up with another franchise. Doesn't mean that Dick should be left distant from the Titans, just that the core moments of his career - specially his move in identity, should be tied to his original family of characters. Even if for purposes of stream-lined continuity only.

That said, I believe the best handling of a retconned/revised version was TAS. In most versions we get hammered about how good Dick was, and having Batman fire him just make him look incompentent and Bruce look like a dick. (Man, Grayson's name is just pure gold for unintentional puns, isn't it?).

Having Dick walking way because of a siagreeing with Batman's methods hits all the right notes for both characters, IMO; it establishes that Dick has matured and will not follow Bats blindly anymore, making him his own man, and also highlights the differences in personality between the 2 while at the same time moving Dick away from the "happy counterpoint to Bruce's gloomy persona". Also, I believe it's really, really improtant to establish this move as Dick's own choice.

I mean, if someone had just told Wally West "hey, you have to be the Flash now", all the talk about legacy and honoring Barry's memory would be kind of pointless. Same applies here.

[MajorHoy]

. . . There is the pre-crisis version of events, which I think involved Dick going off to college and leaving the costume behind him as Bruce moved into the Wayne Enterprises penthouse . . .

In the pre-CoIE version, Dick didn't give up the Robin identity when he went off to college. He still had many adventures while enrolled at Hudson University (as seen in back-up stories in Batman as well as in his solo-feature in Batman Family).

. . . - pre crisis is the only Version were it happend without Bruce and Dick fighting or Dick getting fired (which always feels very forced), but on the other hand it didn't really explain why Dick chose the name Nightwing . . .

Dick had said the choice was partly to honor Superman. There had been adventures where a non-powered Superman had been in the bottle city of Kandor along with Jimmy Olsen, and while there they had adopted the costumed identities of Nightwing and Flamebird.




http://www.fortressofbaileytude.com/...-Flamebird.jpg

I'm sure Superman (or even Jimmy) had told Dick about that in the past.

[DisneyBoy]

Flamebird? Ooooookay.....


- In Nightwing: Year One Dick getting fired feels also forced but in this version you learn finally, were he got the name Nightwing and the Discowing-Costume...

Is the Discowing-Costume costume origin connected to the Superman stories?

[Aahz]

I
Dick had said the choice was partly to honor Superman. There had been adventures where a non-powered Superman had been in the bottle city of Kandor along with Jimmy Olsen, and while there they had adopted the costumed identities of Nightwing and Flamebird.

Ok maybe I missed it in Judas Contract, but Nightwing: Year One showes the Connection to Superman better.

IMHO, the original version was the best one, but I completely understand why they would retcon it; there was no point in having a a character under the bat-umbrella having his "origin" of sorts so tied up with another franchise. Doesn't mean that Dick should be left distant from the Titans, just that the core moments of his career - specially his move in identity, should be tied to his original family of characters. Even if for purposes of stream-lined continuity only.

One of the biggest problem with the original version is that it happened as part of a bigger storyline, which makes hard to retell the story.

That said, I believe the best handling of a retconned/revised version was TAS. In most versions we get hammered about how good Dick was, and having Batman fire him just make him look incompentent and Bruce look like a dick. (Man, Grayson's name is just pure gold for unintentional puns, isn't it?).

I also prefer the DCAU version, the DCAU has in generell great origin stories.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

I wish Young Justice went into Nightwing's origins. Weisman had said that Dick became Nightwing entirely by his choice, but without ever quitting. The YJ-verse always treated Robin (Dick) as Batman's younger partner, rather than his sidekick, and Nightwing as a complete equal to Batman and the Justice League. I'm pretty sure Dick's choice of name was inspired by the same Kryptonian legend as always, as Weisman and Vietti were always fans of important DC lore like that. The reason for the move was likely because Dick wanted to become a full member of The Team, and stay as unknown to the world as possible. Robin was a very public persona, whereas he could be hidden as Nightwing and lead as many covert ops missions as he wanted.

That was all just stuff that was implied by the show and its producers, so while it had the potential to be the best origin for Nightwing, it technically doesn't exist anywhere. BTAS did a good job of hitting a lot of the important beats, even if I preferred the way YJ handled the relationship between Dick and Bruce before, during, and after the Nightwing change. BTAS works a lot better than just Dick getting fired, so I'd have to give it to BTAS for best handling (even if the DCAU never really handled Nightwing all too well).

[BohemiaDrinker]

One of the biggest problem with the original version is that it happened as part of a bigger storyline, which makes hard to retell the story.

Pretty much. You want to keep that origin, you have to keep a chunk of TT history intact, and have a bat-character tied more to that than to the Batman family.

I also prefer the DCAU version, the DCAU has in generell great origin stories.

Saving some exceptions, that's very true. But I believe that Nightwing's was particularly well executed there.

[Frontier]

I wish Young Justice went into Nightwing's origins. Weisman had said that Dick became Nightwing entirely by his choice, but without ever quitting. The YJ-verse always treated Robin (Dick) as Batman's younger partner, rather than his sidekick, and Nightwing as a complete equal to Batman and the Justice League. I'm pretty sure Dick's choice of name was inspired by the same Kryptonian legend as always, as Weisman and Vietti were always fans of important DC lore like that. The reason for the move was likely because Dick wanted to become a full member of The Team, and stay as unknown to the world as possible. Robin was a very public persona, whereas he could be hidden as Nightwing and lead as many covert ops missions as he wanted.

I know the show was a stickler for making a difference between that, and the Team disdaining being called sidekicks, but I've honestly never seen the difference nor what's wrong with being a sidekick.

[Obeythemoderators]

He decided he wanted a new identity to separate himself from batman during The new teen titans story line The Judas contract.
https://p.dreamwidth.org/32d226a1d6f...4/original.jpg

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

I know the show was a stickler for making a difference between that, and the Team disdaining being called sidekicks, but I've honestly never seen the difference nor what's wrong with being a sidekick.

I typed up a lot, and it went all over the place, and since this is slightly off-topic as well, I'll just make it short: Robin is a partner instead of a sidekick because Dick has too much experience to just be a trainee. He's completed his training, which they show pretty clearly in the show, but he's still a kid, which is also shown. Batman treats Dick with as much respect as he would to any of the JL, whereas the other heroes are shown to be reluctant to let their proteges do whatever it is that they want. He still has a ways to go, not because he's still a sidekick, but because he lacks maturity. That maturity is there by the time he becomes Nightwing, and he is considered his own hero, much like the rest of the Team at that point in time.

[Aahz]

I wish Young Justice went into Nightwing's origins.

What I don't really like about a potential young Justice Version is that, since they intgrated Jason and Tim in their universe and made Dick much younger than the rest of the team, Dick became Nightwing at 15 or 16.

[Kingcrimsonprog]

What is the new 52 origin?

[Godlike13]

There isn't one.