Zoom (CW's The Flash) vs Quicksilver (X-Men Movieverse)

[The Watcher]

In the history you know from the documentary video that is broadcast weekly by the CW Network the villain known as Zoom is obsessed with defeating speedsters throughout the multiverse. So far he has pit himself against the heros known as The Flash of two different universes. But what if his attention was drown to yet another one, where super-powered beings did not gain their powers by being exposed to the strange energies of a scientific experiment gone awry but thanks to the very genes they were born with. A world of mutants, where one particular mutant may in fact be the fastest man in his world. A speedster that Zoom feels he must challenge.

I, The Watcher, pose this question to you all...

What If Zoom decided to battle Quicksilver?

[FrenchGemini]

Okay, now, we are really going to need the calcs for Barry's consistent speed. I know he is in the multimach range ("you never reached mach 2" or "Jay runs at the speed of light and you're faster" comments notwithstanding), but we need something better. Also, please note that in that post, I work under the theory that Barry did not make significant progress between Season 1 and 2 as far as his top speed is concerned (hence my comments on the Reverse-Flash later)

Here's the Barry vs Zoom fight (thank you Guy):



Zoom, from what we've seen so far, is slightly faster than Barry (see when he catches up to him on STAR Labs). He essentially gets the upper hand on Flash due to that speed dampener syringe he tried to use on him. He doesn't seem to have Eobard Thawne's fighting skill or speed advantage on Barry, though he does know the vibrating trick, which could help here.

Essentially it boils down to:
-If current Barry can beat Quicksilver, then Zoom can, due to being slightly faster. Also, the Reverse-Flash makes QS his b**ch.
-If current Barry is still significantly defeated, then I don't see Zoom winning. Pretty much going to need the Reverse-Flash to make it a good fight.
-If Barry barely loses, good match between Zoom and Peter. Reverse-Flash hands QS his ass.

[Guy1]

I'd say Zoom is significantly more powerful than Barry was. The dude caught his lightning bolt and threw it right back at him for crying out loud.

[Anarchist]

Barry's speed is at least around Mach 7 or so.

And Zoom stomped him even harder than Wells did.

I'd say he has good chances against Peter.

[FrenchGemini]

I'd say Zoom is significantly more powerful than Barry was. The dude caught his lightning bolt and threw it right back at him for crying out loud.

There's some kind of advantage, strength (definitely), durability, SpeedForce control (maybe), I can't say for sure, but I don't think we can count that as a feat showing Zoom to be significantly faster, given that the lightning attack has that pesky flaw where Barry needs to slow down, which makes it basically useless against a speedster at least around Barry's level, when you think about it.

[TheLastDalek]

How do Barry's feats compare to Quiksilver's again?

[Anarchist]

He is steadily growing better. I'm not sure if he is close to him, but I think he will be soon.

And he sure as hell has more esoterics than Peter by now (Lightning throwing, that speed mirage thing, phasing etc)

[Cody]

How do Barry's feats compare to Quiksilver's again?

He ran as fast as light by the end of season 1. A bunch of low showings later, Jay Garrick comes along, says he can run at the speed of light, and that Barry is faster than him. Then Barry continues to perform at a level well below that of a speedster who is supposed to be FTL.

So..he is either slightly slower-slightly faster than QS atm based on consistent feats.

Quite frankly I believe that Barry is at least roughly around Reverse Flash's level by now.

[Blackid]

Either way I think Zoom in his 1 major showing totally trumps QS.... The only power dude has is speed and humans to him are statues... With lightening being a very VERY fast thing to catch and return, QS would be (possibly) faster than Zoom but more like a jogger vs a runner... Add to that, Zooms other abilities, I see it being a major defeat by Zoom. Oh, and Rev-Flash was fast but I don't see him surpassing Zoom at all.

[moonknight11]

Quite frankly I believe that Barry is at least roughly around Reverse Flash's level by now.

Nah man. Just compare their arm whirlwind feats.

Flash needs both arms to slow down a falling Linda. Reverse Flash meanwhile uses one arm and less time to send firestorm flying off in the distance.

[Cody]

Nah man. Just compare their arm whirlwind feats.

Flash needs both arms to slow down a falling Linda. Reverse Flash meanwhile uses one arm and less time to send firestorm flying off in the distance.

That's more of a superior knowledge on the esoteric thing. Not speed. Barry learned how to toss lightning from Jay, and Jay is supposed to be slower than Barry.

Zoom is described and displayed as a monster among speedsters. And Barry is supposed to be a lot faster than he was when he fought Thawne, so I'm pretty sure that puts Zoom above RF.

[FrenchGemini]

That's more of a superior knowledge on the esoteric thing. Not speed. Barry learned that move from Jay, and Jay is supposed to be slower than Barry.

Fluid dynamics (yeah, I am trying to justify Flash stuff with science. Next time, ladies and gentlemen, I'll deal with freezing lasers ) isn't exactly my domain of expertise but some research tells me that the thrust of a propeller is proportionnal to the (speed of rotation)^4. Let's be nice, and assume that Barry produces the same amount of thrust with his two arms that Thawne did with one. One arm of Barry produces half that thrust which means Thawne rotates his one arm 1.2 times faster. Now, sending Firestorm that far was pretty impressive so I'd guess it was more than 1.2.

TLDR: I scienced some stuff to say that yes, Thawne can rotate his arm faster than Barry. The only esoteric that could eventually enter into play here would be a better ability to concentrate the air movement.

P.S.: Jay didn't teach the whirlwind thing to Barry, Eobard did (S01E20).

Zoom is described and displayed as a monster among speedsters. And Barry is supposed to be a lot faster than he was when he fought Thawne, so I'm pretty sure that puts Zoom above RF.

Described? Yes. According to Word of God, Zoom is faster than both Barry and Eobard, and everyone (admittedly rightly so) sh*ts their pants thinking about him.

Displayed? He definitely is a brutal, savage piece of work. In terms of feats, Zoom showed some mastery of the Speedforce or something (the lightning catch), better speed than Barry, indeed (when he caught up on STAR Labs right before that fight in the air). Afterwards, he beat the living sh*t out of Barry because he caught the speed dampener in mid-air (man, Barry is going to need some serious self-defense classes from Ollie, lesson 1 being "Don't escalate a fistfight by bringing a knife that can be turned against you, fool") and injected him with it towards the end of their fall, hence depowering him at least to some degree. (Note: had there not been speed dampeners in that fight, I would still have leaned towards Zoom beating Barry, though not as decisively)

In conclusion, maybe I exaggerated when I said RF still beats decisively both guys, but I'd still give him an edge in speed over Barry. As for Zoom, so far, at worst, I don't see him being significantly above RF in speed, with the tie-breaker in favor of Eobard being his fighting skill.

[Cody]

Fluid dynamics (yeah, I am trying to justify Flash stuff with science. Next time, ladies and gentlemen, I'll deal with freezing lasers )

When the Flash has a thing called "Flash Facts", which is basically short for: "I am making the laws of physics pathetically cry on the floor as I repeatedly run over and break it" using the thing he bullies to try and explain his abilities is, no offence, but kinda ironic and funny. Not saying you're wrong, I am just saying :P.

TLDR: I scienced some stuff to say that yes, Thawne can rotate his arm faster than Barry. The only esoteric that could eventually enter into play here would be a better ability to concentrate the air movement.

Yea but..you can't really use that instance as an example. Barry was trying to be careful and slow Linda's fall. While Thawne gave Firestorm a Team Rocket send off.

Yes Thawne used one hand to send someone flying while Barry used two in order to slow someone down, but while one is trying to harm his opponent, the other is trying to be careful and save his friend. So..it's not really fair to compare the two incidents when the motivations behind the two character's performances are very different.

I mean you have a point to be certain. But when one was used for combat against a metahuman while the other was used to save a normal human friend, you can't really compare the two. Barry could have just been using both of his arms in order to be careful by generating a wind of bigger size, yet less force than what Thawne used in order to protect his friend.

P.S.: Jay didn't teach the whirlwind thing to Barry, Eobard did (S01E20).

Yea I realized that. Fixed.

In conclusion, maybe I exaggerated when I said RF still beats decisively both guys, but I'd still give him an edge in speed over Barry. As for Zoom, so far, at worst, I don't see him being significantly above RF in speed, with the tie-breaker in favor of Eobard being his fighting skill.

That's fair. We haven't seen much from Zoom other than the fact that he seems to be able to access the Speed force(or negative speed force) in both Earth's, something the currently powerless Jay can't do as of yet.

[Anarchist]

One way or the other, Zoom gives 'creepy' a new definition, Reverse-Flash looks like kindergarten compared to him^^

[FrenchGemini]

When the Flash has a thing called "Flash Facts", which is basically short for: "I am making the laws of physics pathetically cry on the floor as I repeatedly run over and break it" using the thing he bullies to try and explain his abilities is, no offence, but kinda ironic and funny. Not saying you're wrong, I am just saying :P.

None taken, I was fully aware of the irony myself .

Yea but..you can't really use that instance as an example. Barry was trying to be careful and slow Linda's fall. While Thawne gave Firestorm a Team Rocket send off.

Yes Thawne used one hand to send someone flying while Barry used two in order to slow someone down, but while one is trying to harm his opponent, the other is trying to be careful and save his friend. So..it's not really fair to compare the two incidents when the motivations behind the two character's performances are very different.

I mean you have a point to be certain. But when one was used for combat against a metahuman while the other was used to save a normal human friend, you can't really compare the two. Barry could have just been using both of his arms in order to be careful by generating a wind of bigger size, yet less force than what Thawne used in order to protect his friend.

Fair enough, the only thing is that as far as we've seen on screen, it's Barry's top end as far as whirlwinds go, so, if he uses them in the same kind of situation as Thawne in a future episode, I'd gladly compare those feats again, but for now that's all we have.

That's fair. We haven't seen much from Zoom other than the fact that he seems to be able to access the Speed force(or negative speed force) in both Earth's, something the currently powerless Jay can't do as of yet.

Yup. I had the same problem with Malcolm back in the day after his first appearance as the Dark Archer. He was presented as this big badass, even more than Oliver, but he had some luck in that fight. Maybe by Zoom's next appearance they'll make it 100% clear as well that in a pure, no weapons, fistfight, Barry stands no chance.

One way or the other, Zoom gives 'creepy' a new definition, Reverse-Flash looks like kindergarten compared to him^^

Not going to argue against that, it's essentially Batman and Man-Bat, one of those making himself look like a monster, and the other being an actual goddamn monster ^^.