Controversial Opinions (For Everything Other Than DC Comics)

[The Darknight Detective]

I think the topics that are more likely to start a conversation about a character or a group of characters are those that have an angle to them--not just "Joe Blow is a Great Guy," but "Was pre-Code Joe Blow Non-Binary?"

Anyway, I've been convinced that there's a great gulf between comic book fame and other media fame. I didn't used to think so--because I got into comic book super-heroes by way of Adam West--but many posters set me straight and showed me that what's popular among comic book readers isn't what's popular in other media these days--and vicey versy. Characters that have almost been forgotten in the comic books can score their own movie or T.V. show and be a big hit. Yet a spin-off comic book title isn't going to generate the same interest. Because the two arenas are very different, with only some overlap. People that watch T.V. shows and movies aren't going to bother with the comic books--it's not like when I was a kid and Gold Key or Charlton could put out a tie-in comic and every kid on the block would buy it because it had a photo of Davy Jones or David Cassidy on the cover. And readers that like the comic book are often those who deplore the live action treatment and work against its success.

Right. The CB fanbase is not only different than other mediums, it's less significant in the long run because of its much smaller size. Now we fans of comics may decry that, but it doesn't make it any less true.

[The Darknight Detective]

Oh, yeah, I totally agree with that…but the most important ingredient to making that character more enticing ends up being the writing, and consistently good writing is needed to maintain it afterwards.

That’s not to undersell how important an iconic visual design is; merely it’s to state that the narrative/story/writing ultimately still matters more.

The fanbase is grown by the story, then the fanbase overcomes the visual aspect… but still ends up living and dying more off the writing than anything else. Think about how a decade of mostly mediocre writers have undermined major comic characters and larger franchises at DC, or how The Last Jedi managed to drive off half the ST’s fanbase, while Batman having consistently solid writing means that not only he and his family but even characters in the peripheries of his franchise succeed, and how even simple storytelling like that of The Mandalorian built up the D+ Star Wars franchise.

Good writing is important, no doubt, but that doesn't mean every character could have anywhere near Batman-like fandom with the best writers you could name. I mean, Bruce would still sell if I were writing it. In all seriousness, some characters have that special something (though it can be fleeting).

[TheRay]

Generally they should be a place to discuss a character.

Some are the ONLY place to know anything about a character.

Some are the ONLY place to know if the character appears in anything.

I think the best thing is for it to be a respect thread combined with a info dump.
Basically, demonstrating certain feats of the character or things that they have done that could be interpreted to mean different things, but then also the place to find historians for that character that know so much about them that they can answer almost any question in enticing detail.

[skyvolt2000]

Got one....

I wish folks who try to use ComicChron numbers to attack mainly POC lead books and creators realize those are books sold to a STORE.

Stores are suppose to order copies based on what they THINK will sell not ROT on a shelf for 12 months.

If a store orders 4 copies of Black Manta and 20 of Harley Quinn. Manta sells out. Harley leaves 6 unsold. Did Manta not accomplish the goal of selling all copies ordered?

When store owners TELL you they have trouble selling certain books-common sense says that those numbers might be lower versus one that does not.

[Johnathan]

Good writing is important, no doubt, but that doesn't mean every character could have anywhere near Batman-like fandom with the best writers you could name. I mean, Bruce would still sell if I were writing it. In all seriousness, some characters have that special something (though it can be fleeting).

True - the "defining factor" often is not something that can be defined, ironically.

I'm reminded of that scene in THE FOUNDER where Ray Kroc basically takes over McDonald's and tells the McDonald brothers that the reason he didn't simply steal their restaurant's innovations and make his own was the name. He just felt that "McDonald's" had something that could not be replaced.

And he was right. There actually were a lot of fast food restaurants at the time using the same process and going through even better franchise programs, but something abou that name the "Golden Arches" made it a classic.

Wolverine, on paper (so to speak), is a crap character. For those of us (I imagine a few of you are on this forum) who followed the Byrne-Claremont X-MEN back in the original run, though, we could see the gradual development of this plainly ridiculous character (he's a Canuck fer Chrissakes!) as his almost casually mentioned "healing factor" gained prominence and his backstory developed and the love triangle between him, Jean and Scott until he became the ultimately perfect character for 80's and 90's adolescence and, today, the perfect character for the Gen X readers keeping comic book superheroes alive.

[CSTowle]

Got one....

I wish folks who try to use ComicChron numbers to attack mainly POC lead books and creators realize those are books sold to a STORE.

Stores are suppose to order copies based on what they THINK will sell not ROT on a shelf for 12 months.

If a store orders 4 copies of Black Manta and 20 of Harley Quinn. Manta sells out. Harley leaves 6 unsold. Did Manta not accomplish the goal of selling all copies ordered?

When store owners TELL you they have trouble selling certain books-common sense says that those numbers might be lower versus one that does not.

There are a lot of baked-in biases and blindspots in the industry and fandom, and I'm not sure we'll be able to see what really "sells" until the industry itself collapses and adapts to an online/digital-only on-demand hobby. Even the most popular floppy sellers get a fraction of the eyeballs that your big Youtubers get, and while I don't know if digital comic fandom will ever reach those numbers I do think if it were a level playing field the demographics of readers and characters would differ greatly from established "Big 2" superhero comics.

[babyblob]

I have what may well be the most controversial movie opinion in the history of this thread. Maybe in the history of the world? I dont know maybe?

Hotel Transylvania 2 was 157.82 times better then the first. it is a very exact number backed by math and science and I dont really have time to type out the formula but Being a random guy on the internet I think we can all take my word for it.

[TheRay]

Im light weight tempted to start a Super Pro thread

Do it!
Just..do it!

[babyblob]

People who say that covers are not as good as the originals when it comes to music and songs are just bitter and cant accept new music. often times covers are much better the the originals.

[babyblob]

Do it!
Just..do it!

I just saw this. Sadly I do not have the courage.

[Gray Lensman]

People who say that covers are not as good as the originals when it comes to music and songs are just bitter and cant accept new music. often times covers are much better the the originals.

The best cover songs are recognizable as both the original and the new band covering the song, although that isn't a hard rule. More of a guideline, really.

The number of popular, even classic songs that are covers is much larger than people realize.

[babyblob]

The best cover songs are recognizable as both the original and the new band covering the song, although that isn't a hard rule. More of a guideline, really.

The number of popular, even classic songs that are covers is much larger than people realize.

Oh man for real. There are a few that I told my friend about and she was like no way. There were tons in the 80s alone. And Speaking of Alone. That was a cover by Heart.

I can just off the top of my head name 10 or 15 covers I like more then the original.

[ed2962]

The best cover songs are recognizable as both the original and the new band covering the song, although that isn't a hard rule. More of a guideline, really.

The number of popular, even classic songs that are covers is much larger than people realize.

I'd say covering songs in pop music was the norm for a long time. From Sinatra to Ellington and rest on down.

[godisawesome]

“Toxic” ships aren’t the product of a bad combination of characters.

They’re the product of writing that becomes sociopathically apathetic towards one character; it’s toxic because one must hold half the pairing in some kind of contempt, consciously or not, as well as other elements.

Therefore, fans of some toxic ‘ships, particualrly those that are badly, badly written, don't actually like one of the characters involved. Harley-Joker ‘shippers don’t like Harley; they like Joker and want Harley to be used to show how cool they think Joker is. Few fans hate Harley in comparison to how much contempt Joker-Harley fans have for her. Reylo fans don’t like Rey; they love Adam Driver playing the concept of a new Solo, and want him to have attractive arm candy that sublimates the stroy beneath, and that’s the main character.

Few Star Wars fans have as much contempt for Rey, as crazy as it may sound, as Reylo fans. The sexism her character faces with accusations of being a Mary Sue are matched by those who demanded she get with Kylo, so as painful as it may be, Reylo fans and “Girls Can’t Be Jedi!” idiots are fellow travelers.

[CSTowle]

I'm in the camp of I feel zero emotional connection with Rey, or any other character in the new franchise. I felt like for a moment I could feel one for Finn, but his storyline was so all over the place that a redemption/rebellion arc wasn't explored as well as it could have (should have) been. I felt no fear or intrigue for Kylo/Ben (or Snoke, for that matter), none of the other side characters or villains stood out to me, the old-guard felt like they made appearances out of obligation, it felt like the prequels but without a linear storyline. Never thought the prequels would end up looking good by comparison to another Star Wars trilogy, but here we are.