Controversial Opinions (For Everything Other Than DC Comics)

[DrNewGod]

I have come across some of those people. I don't engage, it's a hopeless cause. They don't believe their own eyes.

What really annoys me is that the Greeks and Egyptians had this figured out before humans could smelt alloys or grind corrective eye lenses. So some of us have regressed because they want to believe that "I'm important enough that what I think is more valid than what a careful, systemic examination of observable data indicates."

[Jack Dracula]

We just have a fundamentally different viewpoint.

That's what it boils down to.
Agree to disagree.

I liked it better as an 80s-90s music genre thread than a workplace edicate thread. There I said it

It can be both.

[WillieMorgan]

Lamar Glover an astrophysicist in the Netflix doc Beyond the Curve has an interesting and rare perspective on the flat-earthers and how they are treated by society.

I agree with Glover on this in principle. Simply pointing the finger and laughing at these people doesn't help anyone. Sadly, and this shouldn't be the case but unfortunately it is, it's an attitude that's difficult to apply in practice. Not only do these people hold ridiculous views but they do so with an insufferable level of personal authority.

I have come across some of those people. I don't engage, it's a hopeless cause. They don't believe their own eyes.

I'd heard about that experiment but never seen that video before so thanks for posting. Those Flat Earthers featured in it are actually quite difficult to watch for me. There was also recently a prominent Flat Earther called Bob Knodel that managed to get his hands on a gyroscope. It may have actually been on the same documentary that was mentioned earlier. His intention was to prove that the Earth has no spin. Of course, when the gyroscope naturally showed a 15 degree per hour drift whatever conditions they placed it under, it left both himself and the Flat Earth Community looking rather foolish. They've been back-tracking on that ever since. Knodel was accused of being a NASA shill but, in actuality, he was only thinking like a typical Flat Earther. He was so cocksure of himself and his 'understanding' of both science and the cosmology of the universe that there was no possible way that his 'experiment' could go wrong. And even if it did then, what the hell, he could just ignore the results. These people cannot be reasoned with. Like you say, best not to engage.

What really annoys me is that the Greeks and Egyptians had this figured out before humans could smelt alloys or grind corrective eye lenses. So some of us have regressed because they want to believe that "I'm important enough that what I think is more valid than what a careful, systemic examination of observable data indicates."

Two plus two equals five. Why? Because I know it does. Everyone else has been brainwashed into believing that two plus two equals four since childhood. Only I know THE TRUTH.

[Kirby101]

A tangent to this. We can sit here and call these people's ideas ridiculous and them foolish. But when other people have religious beliefs that are equally outlandishly impossible, we must politely refrain from challenging them.

[Moon Ronin]

A tangent to this. We can sit here and call these people's ideas ridiculous and them foolish. But when other people have religious beliefs that are equally outlandishly impossible, we must politely refrain from challenging them.

I think mostly because Institutional religion has been the norm of society for centuries that it is over looked as foolishness for that and other reasons. It is not challenged until it creeps into secular life such as their desire to have creationism taught in public schools along with the theory of evolution even then it is a compromise a "stay in your lane" so to speak. Where as the flat-earth movement has become a relatively new growing trend thanks to things like youtube. It is the low hanging fruit when it comes to "how on earth can you think that?". I think its just that religions who also have many members in the science community has created barriers and defenses to counter such challenges over many years of being imbedded in culture and society.

In other words "Sell crazy someplace else we're all stocked up here"

[DrNewGod]

A tangent to this. We can sit here and call these people's ideas ridiculous and them foolish. But when other people have religious beliefs that are equally outlandishly impossible, we must politely refrain from challenging them.

I see your point. Most faiths, however, don't try to pseudo-data their way around science, and accept the two belong to different realms. Doesn't make them right or true, but most aren't trying to say science is just another dogma.

[Dalak]

I see your point. Most faiths, however, don't try to pseudo-data their way around science, and accept the two belong to different realms. Doesn't make them right or true, but most aren't trying to say science is just another dogma.

Sadly the biggest one in the US does do exactly that, in fact I have seen Science referred to as a Faith/Belief on these very boards.

[WillieMorgan]

I see your point. Most faiths, however, don't try to pseudo-data their way around science, and accept the two belong to different realms. Doesn't make them right or true, but most aren't trying to say science is just another dogma.

I dunno. Creationism doesn't half struggle with the irrefutable evidence of dinosaurs having existed hundreds of millions of years ago. They've tried to wedge the unavoidable truth of those creature's existence into their faith and bind the two together. Creationist museums reflect this, like the one in Kentucky which actually has dinosaurs incorporated into their Garden Of Eden exhibit.

Yes, apparently dinosaurs roamed the Earth around six thousand years ago. Absolutely preposterous I know.

[Tuck]

I see your point. Most faiths, however, don't try to pseudo-data their way around science,

That is what Intelligent Design is though.

[Moon Ronin]

Sadly the biggest one in the US does do exactly that, in fact I have seen Science referred to as a Faith/Belief on these very boards.

With stuff like the Many-World Theory and even String Theory being treated like soundly tested theories they are not far from the truth in that criticism.

That is what Intelligent Design is though.

That, the age of the earth and the universe, the Big Bang, there are even flat-earthers that use the bible at evidence that the earth is not round.

[DrNewGod]

Sadly the biggest one in the US does do exactly that, in fact I have seen Science referred to as a Faith/Belief on these very boards.

I dunno. Creationism doesn't half struggle with the irrefutable evidence of dinosaurs having existed hundreds of millions of years ago. They've tried to wedge the unavoidable truth of these creature's existence into their faith. Creationist museums like the one in Kentucky actually has dinosaurs incorporated into their Garden Of Eden exhibit.

Yes, apparently dinosaurs roamed the Earth around six thousand years ago. Absolutely preposterous I know.

That is what Intelligent Design is though.

Touche. But I did say "most." it's just those knuckles heads tend to be particularly loud.

[Dalak]

With stuff like the Many-World Theory and even String Theory being treated like soundly tested theories they are not far from the truth in that criticism.

That, the age of the earth and the universe, the Big Bang, there are even flat-earthers that use the bible at evidence that the earth is not round.

Carbon Dating, Gravity, and far more precepts than you can name FAR outweigh the 3 theories you've brought up prove that it's not a faith of belief but something based on fact and repeatable experiments. You've even failed to mention that Science still labels them Theories aka Unproven unlike fully proven things like Gravity, and while many believe in the Big Bang if the evidence comes out against it it'll be thrown out. The same cannot be said for the religions of the Bible and especially the more fundamentalist believers.

The fact that many have no response but to label Science a faith in order to discount it since it's too hard to argue against otherwise is a sad fact that is bringing us down as a species, and for proof I provide the American GoP.

[Adam Allen]

I liked it better as an 80s-90s music genre thread than a workplace edicate thread. There I said it

Etiquette. Not to be a jerk about it or anything, but it just seems an odd instance of sounding a word out.

A tangent to this. We can sit here and call these people's ideas ridiculous and them foolish. But when other people have religious beliefs that are equally outlandishly impossible, we must politely refrain from challenging them.

I don't know, honestly I feel like religious belief in general gets mocked pretty badly on the regular … particularly by some people who consider themselves smarter than average, which is kind of related to how flat-earthers apparently think they are smarter than average.

I'm not personally going to assign myself arbiter of what anyone else should believe, but I do think people who consider their atheism as some sign of superior intelligence are giving themselves a bit too much credit. Of course religious faith defies what is objectively and undeniably real; if it didn't, faith would not be required. You're not forging some kind of new intellectual territory by saying the thing that is impossible according to everyday observation and experience seems impossible to you; of course it does!

But, while the average believer may have an understanding or argument for their faith that is sadly lacking, the fact is that there have been people much smarter than your average atheist, who have made complex arguments for faith. I consider myself relatively bright, and I'm well aware of when philosophers have basically left me in the dust. Sadly, a lot of people only as bright as me or less so, seem to have some illusions on the matter.

[Kirby101]

Etiquette. Not to be a jerk about it or anything, but it just seems an odd instance of sounding a word out.



I don't know, honestly I feel like religious belief in general gets mocked pretty badly on the regular … particularly by some people who consider themselves smarter than average, which is kind of related to how flat-earthers apparently think they are smarter than average.

I'm not personally going to assign myself arbiter of what anyone else should believe, but I do think people who consider their atheism as some sign of superior intelligence are giving themselves a bit too much credit. Of course religious faith defies what is objectively and undeniably real; if it didn't, faith would not be required. You're not forging some kind of new intellectual territory by saying the thing that is impossible according to everyday observation and experience seems impossible to you; of course it does!

But, while the average believer may have an understanding or argument for their faith that is sadly lacking, the fact is that there have been people much smarter than your average atheist, who have made complex arguments for faith. I consider myself relatively bright, and I'm well aware of when philosophers have basically left me in the dust. Sadly, a lot of people only as bright as me or less so, seem to have some illusions on the matter.

Well that is a discussion of atheism / belief. But I was thinking more about some more inane religious beliefs that we are subject too. Creationism, Young Earth, demonic possession, people seeing Angels everywhere, fake religious "healings", etc...
This to me would be different than a God/no God discussion or even about the historical aspects of Jesus.
As far as arrogance. I have met a lot of atheist and a lot of people of faith. Most aren't arrogant. But the most arrogant by far are the true believing evangelicals who "know" exactly what God wants. And also happen to be full of some really wrong headed beliefs ab

[Kirby101]

I see your point. Most faiths, however, don't try to pseudo-data their way around science, and accept the two belong to different realms. Doesn't make them right or true, but most aren't trying to say science is just another dogma.

True. I am not saying "All Religions" or all religious people. I was thinking more about some religious beliefs that are as mad as Flat Eartherism.