Controversial Opinions (For Everything Other Than DC Comics)

[Tuck]

Given how you've tried to paint Snyder, this comment is throwing stones in glass houses.

How have I tried to paint Snyder?

I question his moral reasoning on one specific thing. And I'm not sure how I'm misinterpreting it. This is still a Clark who grew up with human parents. He doesn't need to "learn our human ways".

People aren't wired to kill. They need reasons to kill, not the other way around. (Bear in mind, my issue is not with killing Zod. That happened in the Reeve movies too. And I didn't bring up the Batman could get raped in prison thing . . . because that's merely weird, but whatever.)

I remember Penn Jillette saying he once responded to a religious person who asked him what was stopping him from killing everyone he wanted to if there's no God. Jillette said he has killed all the people he wanted to: zero.

[Gray Lensman]

How have I tried to paint Snyder?

I question his moral reasoning on one specific thing. And I'm not sure how I'm misinterpreting it. This is still a Clark who grew up with human parents. He doesn't need to "learn our human ways".

People aren't wired to kill. They need reasons to kill, not the other way around. (Bear in mind, my issue is not with killing Zod. That happened in the Reeve movies too. And I didn't bring up the Batman could get raped in prison thing . . . because that's merely weird, but whatever.)

I remember Penn Jillette saying he once responded to a religious person who asked him what was stopping him from killing everyone he wanted to if there's no God. Jillette said he has killed all the people he wanted to: zero.

That's the big thing I see forgotten again and again when it comes to Superman - we get a short speech about him in Kill Bill V2 where Bill refers to Clark Kent as the disguise and Superman as the real person, and I couldn't keep myself from saying that Tarantino had it backwards out loud and in the theater. Clark is who he is, Superman is what he can do.

The guy who wears a civilian name as a disguise and is really the person we see in costume is Batman, not Superman. Bruce Wayne died in the same alley as his parents, the person who would become Batman is what came out.

[Kirby101]

That's the big thing I see forgotten again and again when it comes to Superman - we get a short speech about him in Kill Bill V2 where Bill refers to Clark Kent as the disguise and Superman as the real person, and I couldn't keep myself from saying that Tarantino had it backwards out loud and in the theater. Clark is who he is, Superman is what he can do.

The guy who wears a civilian name as a disguise and is really the person we see in costume is Batman, not Superman. Bruce Wayne died in the same alley as his parents, the person who would become Batman is what came out.

Batman said as much in the "Perchance to Dream" episode of the Animated Series.

Does Superman think of himself more as Clark Kent or Kal El?

[DrNewGod]

Batman said as much in the "Perchance to Dream" episode of the Animated Series.

Does Superman think of himself more as Clark Kent or Kal El?

There was a single answer for this question for both characters once upon a time. Long, long ago.

There've been so many versions since, I no longer think there is a single answer anymore.

[TriggerWarning]

Honestly, Snyder's explanation for why that's in the movie is far more disturbing.

He said Superman's no-kill rule didn't make sense without a reason.

I'm sorry, WHAT!? You have to kill someone to know you shouldn't kill people? Has someone run a background check on Snyder?

The whole "no kill" argument was ludicrous to begin with since Reeves Superman killed the 3 Kryptonians in Superman 2. But not before using his powers to torture Zod for audience laughs by crushing his hand. They were powerless now, Superman didn't have to torture to beat them but did so anyway. Last we saw any of the three Kryptonians they had been thrown into some sort of ice chasm as Superman flies away with Lois. They were now human meaning they froze to death. Now of course someone is going to yell "Donner cut" because never used scenes show Superman having them taken away in cuffs. Well I've seen never used scenes in Star Wars where Jabba was a human. Never used scenes are also known as non canon. Then at the very end the newly repowered Clark seeks out the trucker who bullied him earlier and uses his powers to abuse him back. Yeah great moral characters there Supes.

But everyone who loved the Reeves movies is outraged because Supes in Man of Steel killed Zod as an absolute last resort to save a child.

[Obeythemoderators]

The whole "no kill" argument was ludicrous to begin with since Reeves Superman killed the 3 Kryptonians in Superman 2. But not before using his powers to torture Zod for audience laughs by crushing his hand. They were powerless now, Superman didn't have to torture to beat them but did so anyway. Last we saw any of the three Kryptonians they had been thrown into some sort of ice chasm as Superman flies away with Lois. They were now human meaning they froze to death. Now of course someone is going to yell "Donner cut" because never used scenes show Superman having them taken away in cuffs. Well I've seen never used scenes in Star Wars where Jabba was a human. Never used scenes are also known as non canon. Then at the very end the newly repowered Clark seeks out the trucker who bullied him earlier and uses his powers to abuse him back. Yeah great moral characters there Supes.

But everyone who loved the Reeves movies is outraged because Supes in Man of Steel killed Zod as an absolute last resort to save a child.

In fairness Superman 2 meet allot negative criticism when it came out.

[Agent Z]

How have I tried to paint Snyder?

I don't know if you're trolling or just being obtuse. You started this thing with saying someone should do a background check on the guy.

I question his moral reasoning on one specific thing. And I'm not sure how I'm misinterpreting it. This is still a Clark who grew up with human parents. He doesn't need to "learn our human ways".

1) Who said anything about learning human ways?

2) Again, you're using how Snyder handled Superman killing to judge how he views the act of killing in the first place. Snyder did not Clark glorify nor demonize Clark's killing Zod. He put him in a position where he did something he simply never imagined he'd ever have to do as most people who don't kill believe and used that as the basis for Clark not wanting to kill again. How anyone saw this as "Snyder thinks everyone is hard wired to kill" is beyond me.

That's the big thing I see forgotten again and again when it comes to Superman - we get a short speech about him in Kill Bill V2 where Bill refers to Clark Kent as the disguise and Superman as the real person, and I couldn't keep myself from saying that Tarantino had it backwards out loud and in the theater. Clark is who he is, Superman is what he can do.

I don't have much respect for Tarantino as a person but even I can see that we weren't supposed to take Bill seriously when he said that. This is like people complaining that Thanos' plan making no sense was a flaw in Infinity War. As if the film makers were actually trying to make an argument for why killing half the universe was an answer to managing resource scarcity.

Bruce Wayne died in the same alley as his parents, the person who would become Batman is what came out.

This is just as wrong as claiming Clark Kent is merely a mask.

[jetengine]

Thanos plan makes perfect sense. Its not about actually saving resources etc. Its about a lunatic trying to prove that he was right all along. He HAS to get the gems and show that his way was the only way, that his planets death wasnt meaningless THAT HE WAS RIGHT, because otherwise the oceans of blood hes spilt have been for nothing.

[jetengine]

As for Superman killing.

I'm of the opinion that Superman doesnt have a no kill rule BUT he will do literally EVERYTHING before he'll kill someone. And because he's Superman theres often another way.

[Tuck]

I don't know if you're trolling or just being obtuse. You started this thing with saying someone should do a background check on the guy.

That would be the hyperbole I mentioned earlier.

[Adam Allen]

As for Superman killing.

I'm of the opinion that Superman doesnt have a no kill rule BUT he will do literally EVERYTHING before he'll kill someone. And because he's Superman theres often another way.

That's just it, though ... if you're doing a story where Superman just can't find any other way, you're doing it wrong. Because the whole point of the character is supposed to be the highest example we could aspire to ... and it does not make sense to aspire to having no choice.

I've had kids talk about how Goku or One Punch Man could beat Superman, and likewise other kids will claim that Wolverine or Deadpool can beat anybody ... and that's all well and good, because "most powerful" is really going to vary depending on who the main character is, or even where a given character might be in their development.

Superman doesn't necessarily need to be the most godly-powered character (though of course he usually should be somewhere up there) ... but, unlike any of the above (or Hulk, or Godzilla, or anybody else a little kid might be convinced is the most powerful) he absolutely should be the most righteous one.

And I realize that many of us may often feel like killing is in one case or another (as in capital punishment) unavoidable ... but, you really should not feel that it is right.

Killing is not right. Therefore, Superman should not kill.

[Agent Z]

That would be the hyperbole I mentioned earlier.

Hyperbole is not a good way to make an argument. It's the easiest way to make yourself look like a loon.

[Agent Z]

That's just it, though ... if you're doing a story where Superman just can't find any other way, you're doing it wrong. Because the whole point of the character is supposed to be the highest example we could aspire to ... and it does not make sense to aspire to having no choice.

I've had kids talk about how Goku or One Punch Man could beat Superman, and likewise other kids will claim that Wolverine or Deadpool can beat anybody ... and that's all well and good, because "most powerful" is really going to vary depending on who the main character is, or even where a given character might be in their development.

Superman doesn't necessarily need to be the most godly-powered character (though of course he usually should be somewhere up there) ... but, unlike any of the above (or Hulk, or Godzilla, or anybody else a little kid might be convinced is the most powerful) he absolutely should be the most righteous one.

And I realize that many of us may often feel like killing is in one case or another (as in capital punishment) unavoidable ... but, you really should not feel that it is right.

Killing is not right. Therefore, Superman should not kill.

You are conflating a character being in an unenviable position with being a moral person. People have killed in self defense or defense of others. It does not make them monsters. Superman's righteousness should not be based on how often the universe contorts itself to give him the outcome he desires the most. That doesn't make him more righteous than other people. It just makes him luckier than them. Captain America and Wonder Woman killed far more people than MoS Superman without anyone confusing them for villains.

Vigilantism and fraud are also wrong but I see far less people complaining when Superman does that.

[ed2962]

Mark Millar's Wanted comic was him aping Fight Club the movie.

[Kirby101]

Mark Millar's Wanted comic was him aping Fight Club the movie.

I don't see that at all?