Controversial Opinions (For Everything Other Than DC Comics)

[williamtheday]

You probably win. I thought about writers predating HPL and remembered MShelley, E.T.A. Hofmann and Bram Stoker but Stoker's Dracula isn't the first Vampyre there's an early Penny Dreadful called Barnaby the Vampire.

You mean Varney the Vampyre. I had the three volume set back in the 80's: Sir Francis Varney had a bunch of origins untill the writer settled on Varney condemned to walk the Earth as a vampire for the murder of his nephew (?) for an inheritence. In the end he jumps into Mount Vesuvius to bring an end to himself once and for all.

[ed2962]

Ricky Gervais says stuff to get a laugh. That's the point. I doubt he genuinely believes in most of the things he's saying. He's playing a character on the stage that gets a laugh from the off-colour things that come out of his mouth. It's all in good fun.

I really don't believe he wants the winners to make safe, short acceptance speeches--it would make the program too boring and leave comedians with a shortage of material to poke fun at. And do we want to say that, because everyone has skeletons in their closets, we should all just keep shtum about every bad thing that we see in the world? What a terrible existence that would be.

Nothing he said bothered me, it's just all this stuff showed up in my feed about how he really stuck to Hollywood and when I finally watched his act, it was nothing of the sort. It was the same hackneyed bit you always get. A couple of these Hollywood stars jokes are straight up tropes at this point!

[ed2962]

It was a tad overblown, as were the first four times he hosted them. This could well be set to music though:

“If you do win an award tonight, don’t use it as a platform to make a political speech. You’re in no position to lecture the public about anything. You know nothing about the real world. Most of you spent less time in school than Greta Thunberg.. So, if you win, come up, accept your little award, thank your agent, and your god, and f--k off....”

They've had comedians doing some version of that joke for the last 20yrs. I'm just shocked that some people are acting like Ricky said something profound.

[wjowski]

Such as? I can't think of writers pre dating him.

You're kidding right? Lovecraft is Kafka-lite at best.


Or how about the guy he openly worshipped; Edgar Allen Poe?

[Jack Dracula]

You're kidding right? Lovecraft is Kafka-lite at best.


Or how about the guy he openly worshipped; Edgar Allen Poe?

Ackchoowally Poe wrote more comedies than horror stories.
His reputation as a deranged, morbid human car-wreck is due to a smear campaign by someone he offended while working as a literary critic.

This caricature is thanks, in large part, to a high-profile obituary filled with falsehoods, written by his literary rival Rufus W. Griswold. Determined to re-invent American literature, Poe was an influential – and brutally honest – literary critic and magazine editor, who also invented the detective protagonist with his character C. Auguste Dupin, refined the science fiction genre and popularized short stories, actually writing more comedies than horror.

[TheRay]

Good music is found in every generation.

[Agent Z]

Not particularly. Its a term used for products that try to act mature but do so in the most immature way possible that tends to stretch disbelief.

I've seen it also used to describe the Dora the Explorer movie and Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite. The term is so thoroughly misapplied it has become impossible to take seriously, much like the term "Mary Sue".

In practicality, the only difference between "grimdark and edgy" and "mature and morally grey" is that the former is "tonally dark and also I don't like it" and the latter is "tonally dark and also I like it".

[batnbreakfast]

You mean Varney the Vampyre. I had the three volume set back in the 80's: Sir Francis Varney had a bunch of origins untill the writer settled on Varney condemned to walk the Earth as a vampire for the murder of his nephew (?) for an inheritence. In the end he jumps into Mount Vesuvius to bring an end to himself once and for all.

Thanks for correcting me on that. Varney sounds intriguing.

[jetengine]

I've seen it also used to describe the Dora the Explorer movie and Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite. The term is so thoroughly misapplied it has become impossible to take seriously, much like the term "Mary Sue".

In practicality, the only difference between "grimdark and edgy" and "mature and morally grey" is that the former is "tonally dark and also I don't like it" and the latter is "tonally dark and also I like it".

So then your issue is not the words but the misuse by the general ausuence at large

[Gray Lensman]

I've seen it also used to describe the Dora the Explorer movie and Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite. The term is so thoroughly misapplied it has become impossible to take seriously, much like the term "Mary Sue".

In practicality, the only difference between "grimdark and edgy" and "mature and morally grey" is that the former is "tonally dark and also I don't like it" and the latter is "tonally dark and also I like it".

I'll apply the derogatory 'grimdark' when the dark and edgy concept is shoehorned in to something where it doesn't fit. Neither Superman, nor Star Trek, IMO, are supposed to be dark and edgy (Elseworlds and Mirror Universe being exceptions) in the long term. A dark story arc is fine, a dark entire series tells me the writer needs to take a better look (or any look) at the source material.

Also, sometimes the title of something just makes me think that something is drawn from a teenager's idea of edgy. The manga might actually be good, but I can't take Sorcerous Stabber Orphen seriously based on the title alone. Although in the world of manga, anime, and light novels the title can be very deceiving - my wife and I watched Bodacious Space Pirates thinking it would be a fanservicey train wreck we could apply MST3K logic to, only to find a pretty good scifi show under the ridiculous title.



On the Mary Sue front, if you watch the youtube channel of Overly Sarcastic Productions, Red has a good video on the Mary Sue trope, how it started, and how it can probably be applied to current media.

[Agent Z]

So then your issue is not the words but the misuse by the general ausuence at large

As I said, the general misuse has made the term impossible to be taken seriously anymore. Especially when what is considered "dark" is going to vary from one person to another. Not to mention that a certain number of geeks like the ones who use the term have a really narrow-minded, delusional and entitled view of what they think the media they consume should be like. There are better ways to judge poorly-written media than how much color it has or how many characters smile and make jokes.

On the Mary Sue front, if you watch the youtube channel of Overly Sarcastic Productions, Red has a good video on the Mary Sue trope, how it started, and how it can probably be applied to current media.

Great video. I think it actually supports my point in some ways about the way the term Mary Sue is applied.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

People say that it's zombie stories that are over saturating Literature. But I disagree, because it's not zombie stories. but survivalist stories. Seriously, Tbh I'm kinda tired of these doomsday prepper/white survivalists power fantasy novels over saturating the market.

[Agent Z]

Any time a creator says he is taking a long running franchise, "back to its essence" is a good reason to be on the alert. Especially when said franchise was made in far less enlightened times.

[Gray Lensman]

Great video. I think it actually supports my point in some ways about the way the term Mary Sue is applied.

One of the points I liked about it was that she didn't just address the overuse of the term, but also the cynical ways creators knock one or two things off the list in order to say that the protagonist can't be a Mary Sue even though they hit every other box on the list.

[Crabble]

interesting.