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  1. #3511
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    ... or there would have been a war 60-something years later with the UK and, if the latter had lost, prolonged it in the South that much longer.
    Perhaps, but far from certain. Oh, there might have been a war, but the British wouldn't have been in the same place vs. France, and could have afforded to more vigorous campaign on the North American continent. Further, using the issue of slavery as a wedge, the British might well have commanded a larger percentage of North American loyalty.

  2. #3512
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Perhaps, but far from certain.
    None of these ruminations are for certain. Maybe the North and South would have had separate countries, but still fought together and beat the British with French help. In that case, who knows when the South would finally have ended slavery. The problem with these "what ifs" is if you remove or add something to the equation, something else may be altered in the process. At ant rate, it's a fun exercise.
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  3. #3513
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    None of these ruminations are for certain. Maybe the North and South would have had separate countries, but still fought together and beat the British with French help. In that case, who knows when the South would finally have ended slavery. The problem with these "what ifs" is if you remove or add something to the equation, something else may be altered in the process. At ant rate, it's a fun exercise.
    On a semi-related note, if the North and South had separated peaceably, they still would have gone to war within a generation over the West.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  4. #3514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    On a semi-related note, if the North and South had separated peaceably, they still would have gone to war within a generation over the West.
    Yep. I can't see that not happening myself.
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  5. #3515
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    ...if you remove or add something to the equation, something else may be altered in the process...
    Wasn't that what the first three seasons of The Flash were all about?

  6. #3516
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Wasn't that what the first three seasons of The Flash were all about?
    Indeed they were, Doc.
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  7. #3517
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Wasn't that what the first three seasons of The Flash were all about?
    That, and Barry being unable to learn common sense. And the writers being unable to find an arc villain other than the Next Evil Speedster.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  8. #3518
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    Me: Well, I don't have to check into work until after 1pm tomorrow. I can afford to have a couple of beers tonite. I'll walk to the liquor store! Hmm...there's an usually high amount of police officers walking about...and is that a city bus full of cops parked in the bank parking lot?

    Rando Talking to Other Randos: ...Yeah, it's all over Facebook!

    Me: Oh. The looting from a couple of nights ago. Gawd, I hate this year.






    And looting is not reparations....

  9. #3519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    That, and Barry being unable to learn common sense. And the writers being unable to find an arc villain other than the Next Evil Speedster.
    They've improved on that. The Thinker for season 4, the Cicada's in season 5 and Blackhole for season 6.

  10. #3520
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    Here’s one:

    Kylo Ren (pre-Ben Solo) from the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy can’t be seriously talked about as a sympathetic or complex character in The Last Jedi without exposing one of the following on the part of the speaker: an extremely shallow and somewhat ignorant or forgetful view of the films, a large double standard that all the other characters are denied that can range from innocently biased to loaded with some systemic racism and sexism, a good deal of head canon unsupported by the movies, or a vested interest for other reason on the part of the speaker (monetary or indirect - like, you enjoy the rest of the movie so much that you don’t want to deal with possibly fatal problems in Rey’s story caused by Kylo.)

    The character only got a pass because Driver is handsome, shows his true talent in other works (as in, Kylo is a limiting role because of what’s in the script), or because the audience has some bias in favor of him.

    If you don’t realize that every single Stormtrooper is more sympathetic than he is, than you weren’t watching TFA and TLJ.
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  11. #3521
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    The character only got a pass because Driver is handsome
    Is he now? Handsome really?

  12. #3522
    Astonishing Member CSTowle's Avatar
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    He doesn't look like a conventional Hollywood leading man, but I know more than a few ladies who think he's a bit of all right.
    Formerly finfangfool

  13. #3523
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    Come on now, they wouldn't have looked at him twice if they had seen him in the street before he was famous.

    Charm, charism, that's an another matter. But handsome? Get out lol.

  14. #3524
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Come on now, they wouldn't have looked at him twice if they had seen him in the street before he was famous.

    Charm, charism, that's an another matter. But handsome? Get out lol.
    Handsome or beautiful is subjective - and the effect of charm can slide that subjectivity even further.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  15. #3525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Handsome or beautiful is subjective - and the effect of charm can slide that subjectivity even further.
    Yeah; to be honest, it’s a bit like the Benedict Cumberbatch thing - the actor skills and charisma end up complimenting a unique look becomes attractive. A female counterpart would like Jenny Slate.

    With Driver as Kylo, it’s blatantly clear that a lot of the character’s fans see him as a cute and moddy “woobie” with fantastic hair, and prioritize that over, y’know, the character not just being a mass murdering Neo-Nazi Patricide and mind-rapist leading an invading army that uses slave soldiers he treats as cannon fodder tools to commit atrocities with... but also that his inner turmoil and struggle is more about feeling bad for himself at feeling guilty, and that his projected “woobie”-ness is self-centered and used (accidentally or not) to bring in sympathetic people so he can murder or use them for his own ends.

    I honestly think that TFA understood what he was and used him well as a loathsome monster there.

    But I think that TLJ’s plot only really works for people who either are taking a very relaxed, MST3K approach and therefore weren’t really deep-diving the film, which I actually don’t think is a *bad* approach, since usually no one caters to those guys beyond the basic “Space explosions go boom!” or “I think I can tell a good story, if you’d like to hear it?” approach, and since those guys usually aren’t the ones who’d pretend it’s high art or worth defending...

    ...or their people who looked at a loathsome shit-stain of a character, but deciding they want to focus on him over the main girl or the black guy, and of the construct headcanon and double standards that value Driver’s killer lip-wobble game to mean something it doesn’t, and that their reasons for doing so are often poor or just flat out bad.
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