Controversial Opinions (For Everything Other Than DC Comics)

[The Darknight Detective]

It's almost like there's room for both comedy, and tragedy!

Yeah, there doesn't have to be one or the other and never the twain shall meet. For instance, the movie I have seen the most in my life is Abbott and Costello Meets Frankenstein.

Seriously, if I were only allowed to watch feel-good films or dystopian flicks, my head would explode. I need a mix to stay sane.

[Kirby101]

"The best actors in the world, either for tragedy, comedy, history, pastoral, pastoral-comical, historical-pastoral, tragical-historical, tragical-comical-historical-pastoral, scene individable, or poem unlimited."

[PCN24454]

The thing that makes me dismiss "darkness" is that if the characters are all too douchey, then it's not even worth my time to see them get tortured. That makes me feel like characters being "good" is more important than characters being "bad".

[Adam Allen]

The thing that makes me dismiss "darkness" is that if the characters are all too douchey, then it's not even worth my time to see them get tortured. That makes me feel like characters being "good" is more important than characters being "bad".

This is where I unfortunately have to end up with the show Ozark. I binged it after having several people tell me how great it is, and to give credit where it's due -- yeah, the writing, acting, all very good.

But, man -- pretty much everybody in the show is a horrible person, enough to where I honestly wouldn't bother recommending that people watch it, and pretty sure I wouldn't be bothered with watching any additional seasons.

[CaptCleghorn]

This is where I unfortunately have to end up with the show Ozark. I binged it after having several people tell me how great it is, and to give credit where it's due -- yeah, the writing, acting, all very good.

But, man -- pretty much everybody in the show is a horrible person, enough to where I honestly wouldn't bother recommending that people watch it, and pretty sure I wouldn't be bothered with watching any additional seasons.

Shows like Ozark get my "Most in Need of a Moldavian Wedding Episode" award.

[Agent Z]

And liking darker and bleaker works doesn't make you more thoughtful or serious.

Hating darker and bleaker works and accusing people who make and like of being twisted psychopaths is a lot more prevalent. See the DC movies and some shows or The Last of Us part 2. People who hate that kind of work aren't content to simply say "I don't like it" and move on. They have to make it clear how sick and depraved they think its creators and fans are.

[godisawesome]

Hating darker and bleaker works and accusing people who make and like of being twisted psychopaths is a lot more prevalent.

I would actually agree that accusing people who like that stuff of being twisted psychopaths is going to far...

...But I’d also consider it to be a natural reaction a against dark and depressing stuff getting preferential treatment elsewhere from critics.

Which reminds me...

...People who say fanservice, in and of itself, is bad? Full of bullshit.

The Mandalorian had 3 out of the last five episodes full of “fanservice” with familiar characters doing what fans expected, and all three were major hits woth mainstream and hardcore audiences.

What matters is still just how well your story is told - “bad fanservice” is really just bad storytelling that happens to include fanservice. Something like the Mandalorian shows that’s not the case because that show just has good storytelling, period. “Casuals” aren’t getting lost, confused, or distracted from the main story - hell if anything, this season has been a masterclass in using established characters to progress the main character’s journeys.

If you complain about people having expectations and hopes, you’re going to need more than arguing that those would somehow be boring by their very nature -you’re writing ability with a conventional set-up might be boring, but someone else could kick your most original story ideas ass with their take on the familiar as well.

[Jack Dracula]

I'm not so much in favor of raising the minimum-wage as somehow decreasing the prices of goods, services, and rents.

Doing so would require a massive drive to convince corporations and share-holders to change their ideas about constantly seeking to increase annual profit margins.
Maybe forcing a correction of inflation through increased tax forgiveness on participating corporations thereby off-setting the profit loss?
Land-lords could receive a similar benefit. IDK.

I've probably had too much coffee this morning.

[DrNewGod]

I would actually agree that accusing people who like that stuff of being twisted psychopaths is going to far...

...But I’d also consider it to be a natural reaction a against dark and depressing stuff getting preferential treatment elsewhere from critics.

Which reminds me...

...People who say fanservice, in and of itself, is bad? Full of bullshit.

The Mandalorian had 3 out of the last five episodes full of “fanservice” with familiar characters doing what fans expected, and all three were major hits woth mainstream and hardcore audiences.

What matters is still just how well your story is told - “bad fanservice” is really just bad storytelling that happens to include fanservice. Something like the Mandalorian shows that’s not the case because that show just has good storytelling, period. “Casuals” aren’t getting lost, confused, or distracted from the main story - hell if anything, this season has been a masterclass in using established characters to progress the main character’s journeys.

If you complain about people having expectations and hopes, you’re going to need more than arguing that those would somehow be boring by their very nature -you’re writing ability with a conventional set-up might be boring, but someone else could kick your most original story ideas ass with their take on the familiar as well.

I haven't seen the Mandalorian, but I agree with your premise. I'd even go so far as to say that there are some properties that just don't quite work without some fanservice wired into them.

I'm not so much in favor of raising the minimum-wage as somehow decreasing the prices of goods, services, and rents.

Doing so would require a massive drive to convince corporations and share-holders to change their ideas about constantly seeking to increase annual profit margins.
Maybe forcing a correction of inflation through increased tax forgiveness on participating corporations thereby off-setting the profit loss?
Land-lords could receive a similar benefit. IDK.

I've probably had too much coffee this morning.

It's an interesting thought, but that kind of supply side price control would be tough to administrate. Maybe better to make the taxes on EBITDA have a more intensive upward curve that eliminates a wad of deductions But that too rips the lid off a rather squirmy can of worms.

[Agent Z]

I would actually agree that accusing people who like that stuff of being twisted psychopaths is going to far...

...But I’d also consider it to be a natural reaction a against dark and depressing stuff getting preferential treatment elsewhere from critics.

Isn't that called fandom toxicity and entitlement?

And where is this preferential treatment towards darker stuff from critics? If anything, the opposite is more true these days.

[PCN24454]

It's really annoying how many shows/comic books/films are being written while expecting to get a sequel or start a universe.

[williamtheday]

Funny thing, I've never watched The Mandolorian, but I dreamed about it some nights back. Something about Boba Fett moving rocks around in the desert.

[godisawesome]

Isn't that called fandom toxicity and entitlement?

And where is this preferential treatment towards darker stuff from critics? If anything, the opposite is more true these days.

The part where movie and TV award shows tend to favor anti-heroes and villainous protagonists and “serious” “dramatic” affairs, and in general, the way that some tragedies are given greater amounts of prestige and acclaim seemingly because they’re dark and sorrowful. I mean, something like Manchester By The Sea may be a great movie for what it was, but the fact it got treated as a prestige film more worthy of award consideration than blockbusters that years shows where critical bias exists.

It’s actually part of a kind of two part bias level - critics can and will praise and advertise mainstream stuff they find enjoyable, but will also cordone off certain stuff as being “true art” at the same time.

On another level, I’d actually argue that darker stuff can be great in certain circumstances, and in those circumstances better than lighter stuff... but sometimes you enter areas where consensus has to be acknowledged for value in the argument, especially in the long term.

A weird thing for me is that I’d say that something like TLJ is the worst of both worlds, and it’s arguably a combination of some over-exaggerated fandom toxicity running headlong into pretension and entitlement from others - it’s a film that simultaneously has some very strong pretentious and darker elements in some areas, but lighter and juvenile in other areas. For me, that's a film that ends up being more defended by entitlement and toxicity than attacked by it - people more comfortable or excited with two white guys getting “man pain” stories that have lightweight moral victories or “tragedies” inside them being unwilling to admit the combination of banal, boring, and disappointing storytelling with demoting and infantilizing the female main character and her black male costar is going on around it.

In contrast, I’d argue that something like Man Of Steel is having some of its darker ideas castigated not because of their failure, but because of some dropped balls in BvS and Justice League’s storytelling.

[Steel Inquisitor]

A weird thing for me is that I’d say that something like TLJ is the worst of both worlds, and it’s arguably a combination of some over-exaggerated fandom toxicity running headlong into pretension and entitlement from others - it’s a film that simultaneously has some very strong pretentious and darker elements in some areas, but lighter and juvenile in other areas. For me, that's a film that ends up being more defended by entitlement and toxicity than attacked by it - people more comfortable or excited with two white guys getting “man pain” stories that have lightweight moral victories or “tragedies” inside them being unwilling to admit the combination of banal, boring, and disappointing storytelling with demoting and infantilizing the female main character and her black male costar is going on around it.

There's nothing toxic about TLJ's messages, it delves into the problems of war behind the scenes with those who fund both sides, Rey deconstructs both Luke and Kylo for being wrong - it's not about being sympathetic with them. Kylo is revealed to be the bad guy, the fact the internet embraced his meme about killing the past didn't have him win the argument in the movie, as soon as Rey saw he was a lost cause she bounced. The movie deconstructs the hard man making hard decisions Poe makes because he's too caught up in glory to learn that he can't win a war if all his soldiers are dead and he's the one who endangered everything while speaking to Rose and Finn over the communications because he fails to grasp about "need to know" is a thing. That's how DJ is able to sell them out later on. His journey is learning how to be a real leader, which is not undermining a new leader just because of what clothes she wears. The film gets attacked by misogynists and the Alt-right for having minority leads and women in power who get **** done.

In contrast, I’d argue that something like Man Of Steel is having some of its darker ideas castigated not because of their failure, but because of some dropped balls in BvS and Justice League’s storytelling.

Man of Steel had far less interesting things to say than TLJ.

[anyajenkins]

Rey ‘bounced’, but the issue was she never should have been there in the first place. She had utterly no reason to think she could or should ‘save’ Kylo. Luke wanted to save Vader because he was his father, not smart but understandable. Rey had none of that reasoning, but we still had to waste time with oh the guy who I thought was bad from the first movie is unsurprisingly still bad. Glad she cleared that up, lol