Controversial Opinions (For Everything Other Than DC Comics)

[CSTowle]

Elves are the worst fictional race ever. They're so bland and boring but people put them everywhere. Their designs are always boring and their plotlines always involve eugenics/racial superiority. Why are elves so snobby? What do they have to be proud of? Pointy ears?

I wish elves were the default evil race instead of orcs and trolls. Orcs are cool.

1. My problems with drow aside, which I'll address below, they do make scary villains. They're smarter and live much longer so can play the long game, having plans that span decades or centuries. I play D&D and tend to set my campaigns in the Forgotten Realms (some dislike the NPCs, but I like having easily referenced maps and organizations like the Harpers or the Red Wizards so I don't have to make more things up than what I'm throwing at the group), and the FR's history is full of bad decisions and overreach by the elves (consorting with demons for power, developing magic that's too strong for mortals to handle). Not to mention the racist/xenophobic angle. Also, they're depicted as being very pretty. And for some that has great value (why the "evil" races always seem to be hideous). Why I like DMing, can change those things and not have default "evil" races (not much of a fan of alignment as it is), just groups with sometimes competing goals.

I don’t read a lot of ‘medieval fantasy’, but the one I have read never involved the different races fighting to extinction. It was usually an evil, big bad that the ‘races’ would join together to fight.

So using using immigrants as cheap labor was a ploy to get more immigrants in, who work as cheap labor? Mission accomplished, I guess

Not from those on the left, it was a foot in the door to full citizenship. Keeping them as cheap labor to save money and undermine the bargaining power of working class citizens perpetually is a right-wing thing. Like I said, worked too well.

I mean the mud spawning scene was just creative license on the part of Peter Jackson, in the books orcs are bred like any other species and orc women do exist, they just don't ever appear and aren't referenced in any way. Which actually is another thing that grinds my gears, why is it that in all of these settings only the human-looking races ever seem to have any women?

People (usually men) want to see things they want to f##k. Female goblins/orcs/dwarves are probably not going to do the trick, so they're not included.

Try the Drow. Forgotten Realms has a story about one that might do it for you.

I have several problems with the drow. 1. Hard explaining to friends who aren't white that most of the subraces in your fantasy setting that are black-skinned are inherently, irredeemably evil (drow, duergar for example). 2. Hate that subterranean races are black-skinned in the first place, should be pale white. A lesser complaint, but come on fantasy writers.

[DrNewGod]

1. My problems with drow aside, which I'll address below...I have several problems with the drow. 1. Hard explaining to friends who aren't white that most of the subraces in your fantasy setting that are black-skinned are inherently, irredeemably evil (drow, duergar for example). 2. Hate that subterranean races are black-skinned in the first place, should be pale white. A lesser complaint, but come on fantasy writers.

Okay. Ya got me there. Drow should be paler than a unicorn.

However, they aren't irredeemably evil, which is the point of the character in the story I suggest.

[Gray Lensman]

Okay. Ya got me there. Drow should be paler than a unicorn.

However, they aren't irredeemably evil, which is the point of the character in the story I suggest.

IIRC most other subterranean races are pretty pale, the Drow are the exception. And the start of the annoying game trend of "an elf for every stat".

[Zauriel]

Elves are the worst fictional race ever. They're so bland and boring but people put them everywhere. Their designs are always boring and their plotlines always involve eugenics/racial superiority. Why are elves so snobby? What do they have to be proud of? Pointy ears?

I wish elves were the default evil race instead of orcs and trolls. Orcs are cool.

Elves, orcs and goblins are rather too popular in the isekai manga.

[CSTowle]

Okay. Ya got me there. Drow should be paler than a unicorn.

However, they aren't irredeemably evil, which is the point of the character in the story I suggest.

Exceptions exist, but the one I can think of I'm so tired of reading about I guess I suppress him. Again, I get the hate on some FR NPCs. Luckily, if you're a DM, you get to choose who and what to include. Assuming you're doing a home-game.

[Jim Kelly]

Was ist Elf? Das ist 11, ja? Man hat der Kobald, und die Klabautermänner sind ein Typ--Pumuckl ist das. Also das Heinzelmännchen hat man dann. Und auch, Unser Sandmännchen--aber welche Typ ist ihm, kenne ich nicht.

[TheRay]

Why is it whenever I'm having fun it's wrong?

[PCN24454]

I have several problems with the drow. 1. Hard explaining to friends who aren't white that most of the subraces in your fantasy setting that are black-skinned are inherently, irredeemably evil (drow, duergar for example). 2. Hate that subterranean races are black-skinned in the first place, should be pale white. A lesser complaint, but come on fantasy writers.

It's funny. I have similar complaints, but I keep telling myself it's a fantasy setting.

[Adam Allen]

It's funny. I have similar complaints, but I keep telling myself it's a fantasy setting.

Thass just it, tho -- does fantasy setting mean that you (the author/creator) get to make up whatever rules and conventions you want? Well, yeah, definitely. But, news flash -- that's really true about absolutely ever fictional setting. You don't need to have your fiction set in some fantasy realm or outer space sci-fi place, to say that you get to make up your own rules. I can write a romance or a true crime type novel and throw in all kinds of unrealistic bs too, if I want, and it may be entertaining.

But, it's also true that making your story fictional does not exempt it from criticism -- be your setting a real world one, or a more fantastical one. If you write crime novel that has all kinds of nasty racial bias in it, the fact that it's fiction won't stop people from pointing out your bias. And likewise, just because you made it orcs or aliens or whatever -- if your racial bias bleeds through in your fiction, still totally fair for others to point that out.

Looking at you, GRRM, and a world with a setting (Westeros) whose history can be traced back tens of thousands of years ... without any brown or black folk doing anything significant in all that time, apparently. Okay, dude.

[PCN24454]

Thass just it, tho -- does fantasy setting mean that you (the author/creator) get to make up whatever rules and conventions you want? Well, yeah, definitely. But, news flash -- that's really true about absolutely ever fictional setting. You don't need to have your fiction set in some fantasy realm or outer space sci-fi place, to say that you get to make up your own rules. I can write a romance or a true crime type novel and throw in all kinds of unrealistic bs too, if I want, and it may be entertaining.

But, it's also true that making your story fictional does not exempt it from criticism -- be your setting a real world one, or a more fantastical one. If you write crime novel that has all kinds of nasty racial bias in it, the fact that it's fiction won't stop people from pointing out your bias. And likewise, just because you made it orcs or aliens or whatever -- if your racial bias bleeds through in your fiction, still totally fair for others to point that out.

Looking at you, GRRM, and a world with a setting (Westeros) whose history can be traced back tens of thousands of years ... without any brown or black folk doing anything significant in all that time, apparently. Okay, dude.

Some part of that can just be projection.

After all, it sounds like that saying "the villain must always be sympathetic". Sometimes, a villain is just evil, and that's ok.

[Adam Allen]

Some part of that can just be projection.

After all, it sounds like that saying "the villain must always be sympathetic". Sometimes, a villain is just evil, and that's ok.

Sorry, what is projection?

[TheRay]

Caillou is the only thing I can't think of that's absolutely so bad it's good.

[PCN24454]

Sorry, what is projection?

It's when you assume other people have the same feelings as you do. "If you're happy, everyone must be happy." "If you're sad, everyone must be sad." While unconscious bias is a serious problem in society, I don't think it's good to assume that every piece of work (with stuff like fantasy races) will have it.

Ironically, I say this while thinking of Pathfinder and their interpretation of ogres. They were pretty much the epitome of toxic hillbillies.

[babyblob]

It's when you assume other people have the same feelings as you do. "If you're happy, everyone must be happy." "If you're sad, everyone must be sad." While unconscious bias is a serious problem in society, I don't think it's good to assume that every piece of work (with stuff like fantasy races) will have it.

Ironically, I say this while thinking of Pathfinder and their interpretation of ogres. They were pretty much the epitome of toxic hillbillies.

I mean it is there if you look for it. Just like in a lot of fiction. I just dont go out of my way looking for it. I have never even thought about it until the posts in this forum the last couple days. And next time I read a fantasy novel I still wont think about about it. I read stuff like that to escape. I dont look for meanings that point point out every social flaw. I want to see my Orcs dumb brutes, my goblins cowardly, and my elves superior.

[PCN24454]

I mean it is there if you look for it. Just like in a lot of fiction. I just dont go out of my way looking for it. I have never even thought about it until the posts in this forum the last couple days. And next time I read a fantasy novel I still wont think about about it. I read stuff like that to escape. I dont look for meanings that point point out every social flaw. I want to see my Orcs dumb brutes, my goblins cowardly, and my elves superior.

When you say "superiority", do you mean "genuine superiority" or "Nazis in all but name"?