"Deadpool" Artist Liefeld Changes Stance On Shatterstar's Sexuality

[TOTALITY]

How is Angela not at least Bi?

Also, Herc is Bi. I hate that Axel changed this.

As far as I'm concerned the only way Axel can change these things is if, in his capacity as E-i-C, he causes comics to come out that definitively overwrite that stuff. Otherwise we still have comics suggesting those characters are queer, and none saying they aren't, and the comics are what matter. Axel could say anything in interviews, but that doesn't make it reality -- at least not in the reality in question.

I understand how it's easy to forget that where queer representation is concerned, when so much of that has subsisted on vague hints over the years. If you feel like you have to ask "were those hints hinting at what I think they were? Intentionally?" then it can be a much greater blow for an editor to say "no, that's not what's going on." Herc and Angela's not-straightness doesn't seem up for debate though. That stuff is on page.

I suspect in Herc's case he just actually didn't know about the 616 hints, since they are kind of obscure if you're not part of the audience for whom those small hints are a big deal, but hopefully upon realizing how many people had latched on to things as small as that because that's all they were given, he sees there's comics to be sold in giving that audience something more substantial.

In Angela's case, his hesitancy to "label" it seems weird, but it's hard to imagine it's because he doesn't want Angela to be perceived as gay or bi. I mean, if that was the case, then don't have her romantically involved with a woman? And it's not like they would have anything to lose from that perception, only good will to gain, unless a lot of religious conservatives are going to suddenly drop Angela: Queen of Hel from their pull lists. I think it must have more to do with not wanting to retroactively label either Angela series the 'First All New Marvel Ongoing with a Gay or Bi Lead' when their modest sales are already something of a known quantity, and their queer appeal wasn't a huge part of how they were marketed - maybe he just doesn't want it held up as THE queer representation, which I'm hoping (perhaps naively?) would be because they have more in the works. Ms. America series? Eh?

[Marvelboy1974]

I think initially Rob was against the idea of Shatterstar being seen as gay because when the character was originally created he was meant to be seen as asexual. But as time progressed, Shatterstar bonded with Rictor and became involved in a homosexual relationship and his sexuality evolved. I don't see Shatterstar as a traditional gay character, but an asexual character that just happened to fall in love with another man. If Rictor had not come along, a story could have easily been written where Shatterstar bonded and fell in love with a woman. With that said, I think Shatterstar and Rictor make a great couple and their union shouldn't be messed with for the sake of labels. It works. They have a history together and they love each other. Hopefully the union will last. And it really doesn't take away any of the creator's original plans for the character if you think about it logically.

[zuperkrypto]

Horrible just f'in horrible smh

[TOTALITY]

My thoughts from the early X-Force and Cable issues myself. But you know ... everything must be labeled.

Seriously? Did you read any of Peter David's X-Factor issues dealing with Shatterstar's sexuality? I mean that as a serious question, because I'm curious if your thoughts would change upon reading it, if you haven't already.

It's not about "everything must be labelled," it's more like "everything must be part of an ongoing serialized story" because that's what Marvel comics have always been. The later stories weren't about saying the early Shatterstar stuff was actually something else; his previous non-sexual characterization is treated as an important part of his arc.

[FromTheAshes21]

I always had a hard time seeing Shatterstar as gay or even bi, at least from how he was characterized in X-Force. He always struck me as simply celibate, as thoughts of sex and sexual attraction would detract from his training as a warrior.

Shatterstar saw a considerable amount of character development as the series continued; especially after the Age Of Apocalypse. Fans who only read the first dozen or two issues only got the start of Shatterstar's evolution. If characters remained the same forever, they would be a lot less interesting. And I've always found Liefeld's remarks to be asinine, that he would consider the status quo for his co-creations would never change over the years; and in some cases he barely got to develop them at all before moving on to other projects.

I hope Liefeld continues to clear the air on this subject, because I don't find his current comment to be a confirmation that he has changed his stance. I think it is just the fact that Bad Blood is not going to have any indication of romance or sexuality in it, so it won't have any impact on changing the character's sexuality. The bigger question is... will it address how Shatterstar ends up in the same place as these other characters? Last we saw them, Rictor & Shatterstar were raising Baby Shatterstar in the future of the Mojoverse...

[TOTALITY]

Here are some panels that address Shatterstar's earliest characterization as related to his later development...

[DDD]

I'm grossed out by characters bedding Rahne in her wolf form.

[FromTheAshes21]

Oh, and yes, Shatterstar is bisexual; but chose to enter a committed relationship with Rictor. Peter David went into great detail with this thread in X-factor, as it was evident that Shatterstar was attracted to both genders, and at one point was seen like "a kid in a candy store" that he had never acted on his sexual arousal in the past, so he was anxious to have various sexual experiences. One I specifically remember was him wanting to see Rahne nude when she was pregnant, and curious about having sex with a pregnant woman. In another issue, he wanted to have sex with Monet St. Croix (M), and it is escaping me at the moment, but I remember an issue that ended with him blatantly propositioning someone to have sex with him. In the end, though, Rictor explained the emotional aspect of his feelings for Shatterstar, that it is not all sexual in nature, and that he sought a committed relationship with him. Shatterstar failing to see the connection between casual sex and being in a relationship was one of those life lessons, as Shatterstar never previously had to personally consider these things, even though he saw others in these predicaments. Shatterstar chose to be with Rictor. Rictor, on the other hand, considers himself gay. He actually admits that his past flings with Rahne and Siryn were his attempts to "be normal" and try to push his desires away to be straight; but he knows inside that he is not attracted to women. Peter David did a great job with this, and it was really benefited by Rahne's predicament at the time; showcasing that Rictor still cared about her as a person, never wanted to hurt her, would always be there for her, and that it wasn't his fault he wasn't attracted to her sexually. Not only did she accept him, but she also made Rictor & Shatterstar her child's godparents. I can only hope that future writers of Iceman will address the fact that he didn't just *use* his past love interests to cover his homosexuality, that he did care about them, and had strong feelings for them, just that inside he knew he wasn't sexually attracted to women. But that is another debate entirely, and I don't even dare enter that "bee's nest", because I've seen 95% hatred over the Iceman story right now, when I have considered him to at least be bisexual since the mid-80's Defenders, and the few tidbit clues we got here and there ever since.

[Complexed]

I'm grossed out by characters bedding Rahne in her wolf form.

Would you be grossed out by someone bedding Feral? How about Beast? Nightcrawler?

[DDD]

Would you be grossed out by someone bedding Feral? How about Beast? Nightcrawler?

eeewwwwwww

[Psimitar]

Shatterstar saw a considerable amount of character development as the series continued; especially after the Age Of Apocalypse. Fans who only read the first dozen or two issues only got the start of Shatterstar's evolution. If characters remained the same forever, they would be a lot less interesting. And I've always found Liefeld's remarks to be asinine, that he would consider the status quo for his co-creations would never change over the years; and in some cases he barely got to develop them at all before moving on to other projects.

I hope Liefeld continues to clear the air on this subject, because I don't find his current comment to be a confirmation that he has changed his stance. I think it is just the fact that Bad Blood is not going to have any indication of romance or sexuality in it, so it won't have any impact on changing the character's sexuality. The bigger question is... will it address how Shatterstar ends up in the same place as these other characters? Last we saw them, Rictor & Shatterstar were raising Baby Shatterstar in the future of the Mojoverse...

I suppose it's a matter of perception. I'm one of those white hetero-sexual Christian males that everybody loves to villify and my personal views about homosexuality are not in line with popular opinion. So I'm not necessarily looking for characters to be gay and I don't necessarily jump for joy when they are. Whereas somebody else who is part of the "we need moar LGBT in everything" movement is looking for it, expecting it and gets downright angry if it turns out not to be so (see: Hercules). I did read Peter David's X-Factor in it's entirety. And, in one of the few instances I've ever agreed with Rob Liefeld, Shatterstar's sexuality came across as contrived because, (see: earlier post).

I'll admit that Peter David's reasoning for it was a good attempt to explain it. But I'll confess that Shatterstar is not as high up on my list of favorite characters now if for no other reason than when he's on panel (at least in X-Factor) he's typically doing more PDA with Rictor than he is kicking bad guy butt. And that's just not something I enjoy reading in comics.

[Complexed]

eeewwwwwww

Sounds like you should be an inhuman fan then. MUTANT AND PROUD!

[Jackraow21]

The Inhumans have fishy and scaly people, which is even worse than the furries over on the X-side.

[Dazzler]

I suppose it's a matter of perception. I'm one of those white hetero-sexual Christian males that everybody loves to villify and my personal views about homosexuality are not in line with popular opinion. So I'm not necessarily looking for characters to be gay and I don't necessarily jump for joy when they are. Whereas somebody else who is part of the "we need moar LGBT in everything" movement is looking for it, expecting it and gets downright angry if it turns out not to be so (see: Hercules). I did read Peter David's X-Factor in it's entirety. And, in one of the few instances I've ever agreed with Rob Liefeld, Shatterstar's sexuality came across as contrived because, (see: earlier post).

I'll admit that Peter David's reasoning for it was a good attempt to explain it. But I'll confess that Shatterstar is not as high up on my list of favorite characters now if for no other reason than when he's on panel (at least in X-Factor) he's typically doing more PDA with Rictor than he is kicking bad guy butt. And that's just not something I enjoy reading in comics.

luckily for you there are thousands of other comic book characters designed to appeal to white hetero-sexual males for you to choose from! It might be more constructive for you to espouse your opinions in threads about them instead of ragging on one of the, like, half dozen queer superheroes Marvel has to offer. Doesn't seem all that productive to me.

[DDD]

Sounds like you should be an inhuman fan then. MUTANT AND PROUD!

The B in LGBTQ does not stand for Bestiality.