Is Superman Perfect?

[Agent Z]

The problem with Action 775......man, I have written huge, essay-like posts about this......but I'll try to keep it really brief.

Clark fails to prove his point. On every single level, in every single case, Clark loses the debate. The one example from the issue that clearly comes to mind (it's been years since I read it) is the argument about the prison system while the Elite and Superman fight a few aliens and their MiB-esque handlers. The Elite explain that the criminals Clark puts in jail often get recruited into worse gangs and, in this case, end up selling weaponized aliens on the black market that are used as WMD's not just on earth, but other worlds. Those crooks Clark imprisons get sucked into deeper, more evil forms of criminal activity and it results in even more death and destruction. And in this example, as with all the others in the issue, Clark has no rebuttal.

Clark even seems to lose the fight for public approval, as we see two women discussing the topic and deciding that it'd be better if someone just melted the Joker (or whoever) rather than try to imprison him. So it seems that even the people of Metropolis aren't on Clark's side.

And at the end of the issue, Clark just beats the hell out of the Elite and then preens as if he won the moral high ground, when all he did was win a fist fight. He didn't prove them wrong. He didn't once offer a viable counter-argument. All he did was punch them harder than they punched him.

Clark's hypocrisy is clear as well. In that continuity he hadn't yet taken a lot of lives, but he had indeed already killed people and worked closely with other heroes who had also killed, like Arthur and Diana.

And then there's all the other stuff that Clark never mentions. The Elite destroy huge chunks of cities in their fights, resulting in the deaths of countless people and millions in property damage. Clark says nothing about that, and only takes issue with them killing villains.

Clark lets the whole thing become personal and acts recklessly. He knows the Elite are powerful, he knows they'll kill him if they can, and instead of calling in the League for support he decides to endanger his life by taking them on alone, as if that'll prove that he's right. And because the entire world often rests on his shoulders, he's not only endangering his own life, but the fate of the entire world in a selfish attempt to prove his point. He's trying to make himself look like the responsible person in the argument, but his hot-headed actions show that he's no more mature than the Elite.

The Elite force a sentient creature into slave labor as their ship/HQ, and Clark says nothing about it and makes no attempt to save it when he's on board. He does, eventually, rescue the thing, but only as a way to hurt the Elite and only after letting the creature suffer for a few more days, which strikes me as being a very un-Superman like thing to do. He didn't save it because it was a living thing and deserved freedom, he saved it because it would piss off Manchester Black.

And all of that is just off the top of my head. There's other issues in 775, and Clark shows his hypocrisy in other ways as well, but I did say I would try to keep this brief, so.......

Hell, Clark wouldn't have even needed to do much to oppose the Elite. Sooner or later (more likely sooner), the world would have turned on the Elite when it became clear that there methods caused more harm than good. Collateral damage, potentially destabilizing nations, killing innocent people based on faulty information. These are the problems that actually come with private citizens playing cop. But these problems never seem to get acknowledged in stories like Action Comics 775.

I mean, the comic and the movie operate on the idea that people would be fine with the Elite's methods so why would Superman be any different?

[Flash Gordon]

I liked how Birthright handled Clark being a vegetarian, and I wouldn't be against that in the main canon. But main canon has him eating meat too often to support the shift. They could always make it a recent life choice, but they'd need a solid purpose behind it or it'd just come across as a weird, left-field decision driven by the writer's own opinion and not the development of Clark's character. As I recall, the only time he's been written as a vegetarian was Birthright, and that's not enough to shift all the rest of his characterization.

Meh, it would be a really simple change to justify and for the best tbh. It's also a very important issue that Superman could low key support.

Eating dead animals isn't important to the character. Honestly it doesn't suit the character.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

I like Superman being a vegetarian, but as a small detail that fleshes him a bit, never want to see him get super preachy about how meat is murder or something.

[Killerbee911]

Superman isn't perfect but reading what some fans want from the character just small little break down

1. Superman should tower over most heroes in height
2. Superman should be most powerful hero
3. Superman should never kill,even when killing is the right decision
4. Superman should be one of the most handsome heroes
5. Superman should be one of the most intelligent heroes
6. Superman loses his power he still know hand to hand and is amazing hero
7. Superman never give ups up ever
8. Superman weakness yeah he isn't weak to magic,he just has no inherent weakness, Kryptonite hurts him but he can still do stuff
9. Even though Superman is the most powerful hero,He still a everyman
10. Superman is the most iconic Superhero in comics,Most popular superhero in the world
11.Superman look never needs to change,It is perfect
12. Superman should be political and stand for something but superman in protectively do things he should never come off as dictator or on the wrong side

etc, etc, etc .In reading people expectations of Superman as someone who is more casual fan of the character it makes your eyes roll to back of your head and I understand why people dislike Superman at times. Superman isn't perfect but my goodness do people run crazy with the power fantasy. But anytime I think Superman fans are too annoying I just go read Batman forum and read on how Batman can beat every superhero because Batman,That always snaps me back to oh yeah fan is short for fanatic. We all get a little too passionate about things we really like and other fans don't see that at times.

[Ascended]

Meh, it would be a really simple change to justify and for the best tbh. It's also a very important issue that Superman could low key support.

Eating dead animals isn't important to the character. Honestly it doesn't suit the character.

Maybe with the next reboot, but I don't see much of a way to make the change without it just coming across as the writer's opinion. At this point in his life, after everything he's seen and done, what would be the incentive for Clark to change?

I like Superman being a vegetarian, but as a small detail that fleshes him a bit, never want to see him get super preachy about how meat is murder or something.

This has made me remember one of my favorite "weird things" about Clark; his crazy eating habits! Remember when he used to eat radioactive materials, and all manner of wild stuff? And not just because he could, but because he actually enjoyed the taste? I want to see more of that in Clark! It'd make a kind of comic book-y sense if his alien biology, enhanced by cosmic radiation, had different dietary needs and his "well balanced meal" included oddball things right?

Man, I can't think of all the stuff Clark's eaten right now......somebody help a guy out?

[Ascended]

Superman isn't perfect but reading what some fans want from the character just small little break down

Yeah, we're a picky bunch.

Yang said that the character of Kal-El is found in the tension between Clark Kent and Superman. It's having one foot in an average and mundane world with the other foot in wish fulfillment and seeing how they mix. And the tension of that conflict is all magnified by the character's status as a pop culture icon. So Superman has to be, at the same time, flawed and "human" but also better and beyond us. Neither a superMAN or a SUPERman, but both; the SUPERMAN. It's not an easy thing to balance, but it's not as hard as a lot of people seem to think it is.

[Flash Gordon]

Maybe with the next reboot, but I don't see much of a way to make the change without it just coming across as the writer's opinion. At this point in his life, after everything he's seen and done, what would be the incentive for Clark to change?

If it has to be a change and not just a "he's never been into eating dead flesh" (I can't honestly remember the last time I even saw him talk about food in a comic), it can be something like "I grew up a certain way, and have lived as a normal dude...but I'm going plant based because consuming dead animals is weird for a Superman to do!"

That, or Jon turns him onto it. Damian and Jon are close, and Damian doesn't eat meat.

I don't want it to be something he's preachy about, just something he does. Clark isn't the preachy type.

[Ascended]

If it has to be a change and not just a "he's never been into eating dead flesh" (I can't honestly remember the last time I even saw him talk about food in a comic), it can be something like "I grew up a certain way, and have lived as a normal dude...but I'm going plant based because consuming dead animals is weird for a Superman to do!"

That, or Jon turns him onto it. Damian and Jon are close, and Damian doesn't eat meat.

I don't want it to be something he's preachy about, just something he does. Clark isn't the preachy type.

Oh yeah, I forget Damian is a vegetarian.

The bold bit here made me think of Clark's photosynthesis-like biological qualities......perhaps Clark doesn't eat plants! That'd be a weird twist but who's to say what his physiology resembles? Slightly off topic but I always figured Poison Ivy was strictly a meat eater. Beast Boy is definitely a vegetarian on the TTGO cartoon, though I dont know if it's ever been brought into the comics. Not sure about Vixen or Animal Man, I could see that either way. Animals eat animals, and all that, and neither are as bohemian as Gar.

I don't recall the issue numbers, but Clark talked about his favorite foods towards the end of the New52/DCYOU era, somewhere around Johns' run I think (the beef bourgeoisie that started off as a bad sex joke that some writers took literally), and we saw the family sitting down to dinner quite often in Tomasi's run, with at least one occasion of Clark doing the cooking. Usually looked like a standard American dinner; some kind of chicken, steak, or pork, veggies and/or fruit, grain-based sides.....nothing overly exciting or unusual. No irradiated minerals or anything.

[HeroVladimir93]

Oh yeah, I forget Damian is a vegetarian.

The bold bit here made me think of Clark's photosynthesis-like biological qualities......perhaps Clark doesn't eat plants! That'd be a weird twist but who's to say what his physiology resembles? Slightly off topic but I always figured Poison Ivy was strictly a meat eater. Beast Boy is definitely a vegetarian on the TTGO cartoon, though I dont know if it's ever been brought into the comics. Not sure about Vixen or Animal Man, I could see that either way. Animals eat animals, and all that, and neither are as bohemian as Gar.

I don't recall the issue numbers, but Clark talked about his favorite foods towards the end of the New52/DCYOU era, somewhere around Johns' run I think (the beef bourgeoisie that started off as a bad sex joke that some writers took literally), and we saw the family sitting down to dinner quite often in Tomasi's run, with at least one occasion of Clark doing the cooking. Usually looked like a standard American dinner; some kind of chicken, steak, or pork, veggies and/or fruit, grain-based sides.....nothing overly exciting or unusual. No irradiated minerals or anything.

Is there something really bad about Superman enjoying the taste of meat? He's a person, he's allowed to enjoy whatever food he eats.

[Ascended]

Is there something really bad about Superman enjoying the taste of meat? He's a person, he's allowed to enjoy whatever food he eats.

I have no issue with it. I never turn down a good steak! Flash suggested going the Birthright direction and making Clark a vegetarian, we're discussing the pro's and con's, what's canon, etc.

I'm actually saying that I'd rather see Clark's diet expanded to include crazy stuff like he used to eat in the Silver Age.

[Jackalope89]

Superman isn't perfect but reading what some fans want from the character just small little break down

1. Superman should tower over most heroes in height
2. Superman should be most powerful hero
3. Superman should never kill,even when killing is the right decision
4. Superman should be one of the most handsome heroes
5. Superman should be one of the most intelligent heroes
6. Superman loses his power he still know hand to hand and is amazing hero
7. Superman never give ups up ever
8. Superman weakness yeah he isn't weak to magic,he just has no inherent weakness, Kryptonite hurts him but he can still do stuff
9. Even though Superman is the most powerful hero,He still a everyman
10. Superman is the most iconic Superhero in comics,Most popular superhero in the world
11.Superman look never needs to change,It is perfect
12. Superman should be political and stand for something but superman in protectively do things he should never come off as dictator or on the wrong side

etc, etc, etc .In reading people expectations of Superman as someone who is more casual fan of the character it makes your eyes roll to back of your head and I understand why people dislike Superman at times. Superman isn't perfect but my goodness do people run crazy with the power fantasy. But anytime I think Superman fans are too annoying I just go read Batman forum and read on how Batman can beat every superhero because Batman,That always snaps me back to oh yeah fan is short for fanatic. We all get a little too passionate about things we really like and other fans don't see that at times.

Can't say I disagree with you here. Literal fanfic territory for a lot of those.

For me? Give me a guy that simply tries his best to be a good person and keep a positive outlook, and happens to have super powers to go along with that.