Morrison's BATMAN, INC

[Forever Knight]

So I read New 52 B&R and finished it and really enjoyed it. Clearly I need to read both volumes of Batman Inc to fill in the wholes from B&R.

Just wondering what everyone here thought of Inc?

I am also told Batman: The Return is the true intro to Inc.

[t hedge coke]

Batman Inc (both volumes) was the last bat-comic that really thrilled me as it was coming out. The first volume is so happy-go-lucky, pop mad action and the second volume is so angry and sad and operatic while still be silly and actiony. You should definitely read Batman Inc. You'll be a better person. Or, have had a good several hours, anyway.

It's so weird to me that Return (aka Planet Gotham, which will never stop being the cooler title) isn't packaged with Inc. (Maybe it is in the big oversized edition? It should be.) But, yes, it pretty much is the beginning of Inc as a story. You can understand the story just fine without it, it's just a very good intro.

[Forever Knight]

So Darkseid kills Bruce, he is going through time, he returns, then he forms Inc?

I'm not a big fan of Morrison. But to be fair I've really only read his run on New 52 Action Comics. and the issues I did read of Inc while reading B&R I did enjoy.

[batnbreakfast]

Bruce never died. He was kinda lost in time because of a magic bullet as I understood it.
Inc is my least favourite part of Morrison's run. Batman and son, Black Glove und RIP were a lot better IMHO.

[borntohula]

I quite liked Batman INC. First of Morrison Batman epic I read, while I was a bit lost at times I think I got through it well enough to understand it.

While Batman: The Return (both intro, and a bridge for B&R and The return of Bruce Wayne into INC) is recommended, I'd also recommend that you read Batman RIP. It has one or two characters that INC could'v given a bit more backstory.

While at it, the book Time and the Batman has a similar function for Batman RIP and Final Crisis (Wayne "dies" in both of those also), leading into Return of Bruce Wayne. I think Time and Batman could fill you in well enough what's going on with the time travel stuff in Batman and Robin.

So basically. I'm recommending you Batman RIP and Batman #682-683 and #701-702.

[t hedge coke]

Bruce never died. He was kinda lost in time because of a magic bullet as I understood it.

Yes and no. Bruce died before RIP or Final Crisis, and he dies again at the end of Return of Bruce Wayne (and gets better each time), but initially the plan was that he didn't die because of FC, just got displaced around time.

Buuuut... Morrison threw in visual reference to Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?, the Gaiman/Kubert comic, wherein Batman does die many deaths, similar to the attack on Mr Miracle back in Seven Soldiers. So, he did die between FC and RoBW, just not in a Morrison comic.

[JBatmanFan05]

Batman Inc is a must read and the Absolute edition is the ONLY (I repeat only) way to read it. It is the final true director's cut of Inc as Burnham and others redraw some pages that they didn't have to time to do originally. Color is adjusted on some pages too I think.

I'm not a big Absolute fan, but Absolute Inc is one of the finest collections DC has ever made.

[JBatmanFan05]

It's so weird to me that Return (aka Planet Gotham, which will never stop being the cooler title) isn't packaged with Inc. (Maybe it is in the big oversized edition? It should be.) But, yes, it pretty much is the beginning of Inc as a story. You can understand the story just fine without it, it's just a very good intro.

It isn't and I agree that it should be considered more part of Inc (and not B&R like how the trades place currently it).

I am also told Batman: The Return is the true intro to Inc.

It absolutely is. And a great intro.

[jules]

It's so weird to me that Return (aka Planet Gotham, which will never stop being the cooler title) isn't packaged with Inc. (Maybe it is in the big oversized edition? It should be.) But, yes, it pretty much is the beginning of Inc as a story.

It's included in the Absolute Batman & Robin volume, which I guess is why it didn't get scooped up for the Inc volume.

I can see the argument for it belonging to each of them, really. It does some wrapping up of the loose ends caused by Bruce's return, particularly with regard to comparing how he and Damian work together versus Dick and Damian, and that was B&R's major theme. But at the same time it acts as an introduction to many of the missions that make up Inc volume #1, and to Leviathan as a threat. Plus it has the first pages of Chris Burnham's art, the rest of which are all in the Inc volume. :-)

I guess as it's mostly a scene setter, it's not an essential issue for the understanding of Inc. I like having it though.

[K. Jones]

So Darkseid kills Bruce, he is going through time, he returns, then he forms Inc?

I'm not a big fan of Morrison. But to be fair I've really only read his run on New 52 Action Comics. and the issues I did read of Inc while reading B&R I did enjoy.

In tighter terms, the whole run, from Batman 655 onward through Batman and Robin and whatever else, Bruce's encounters with big cosmic DCU Justice League weirdness have given him glimpses or nightmares or visions of terrible dark futures, and Incorporated is him returning from his biggest cosmic encounter and doing something dramatic to prevent that future from happening. This is just one of like 99 levels of reading into Morrison's run, but it works pretty well in the simplified interpretation of "Prevent the dark future with an Army of Batmen".

[SiegePerilous02]

In tighter terms, the whole run, from Batman 655 onward through Batman and Robin and whatever else, Bruce's encounters with big cosmic DCU Justice League weirdness have given him glimpses or nightmares or visions of terrible dark futures, and Incorporated is him returning from his biggest cosmic encounter and doing something dramatic to prevent that future from happening. This is just one of like 99 levels of reading into Morrison's run, but it works pretty well in the simplified interpretation of "Prevent the dark future with an Army of Batmen".

I'm glad this topic was created, because I actually have a few questions about this run after my recent re-read, this being one of them. When exactly does Bruce have the vision of the bad future with Damian Batman? Is it shown in the 52 series when he goes into the caves with the Ten Eyed Men? Also, he guesses that Talia is trying to bring this future about by putting Damian with him, but how would she know about it? Turns out to be wrong because of the Heretic I guess, but I'm not sure Bruce would think Talia knows about it if he hasn't told anyone about his visions. Also, what does Dr. Hurt have to do with the bad future? I'm assuming that's him telling the President to nuke Gotham.

Some other questions that you guys can hopefully answer for me:

- Are we meant to know how the first Knight and those other heroes imprisoned Dr. Dedalus? It's always been sort of vague. I'm also guessing it must have taken place after Kathy's supposed death, because Netz is in charge of Spyral in the flashbacks but Kathy is clearly in charge in the present.
- So the fake Dr. Dedalus was the man in charge of the facility before Otto screwed his brain up and escaped right? How does Batman figure out that it wasn't the real one? And why does he kill the Leviathan agent posing as a scientist if the real Dedalus is working for Leviathan anyway?
- The Hood is working for T.H.E.Y to go undercover in Batman INC, and he is about to be killed by T.H.E.Y's Matron when it is revealed the Matron is really working for Spyral. But in vol. 2, the Hood is suddenly working for Spyral and Kathy. Was he always allied with them, or did Kathy and the Matron recruit him in between volumes?

[t hedge coke]

When exactly does Bruce have the vision of the bad future with Damian Batman? Is it shown in the 52 series when he goes into the caves with the Ten Eyed Men?

He says, pre-DCnU, it's during his time jaunt, but post, it's vaguer. However, his visions seem to be all a one, at different points in his life. The dream of the three Batmen, his funeral with the clone body, and the Damian future stories are all wrapped up in that. He has them while in the thogal ritual, during his heart attack, when Darkseid attacks him, and when in Hurt's experiments at once.

Also, he guesses that Talia is trying to bring this future about by putting Damian with him, but how would she know about it?

She's not bringing it about because he had the vision. He had a vision of something she, in part, could cause. She's causing it for her own, selfish reasons, and pretty much inadvertently.

Also, what does Dr. Hurt have to do with the bad future? I'm assuming that's him telling the President to nuke Gotham.

He just... survived. He found a way out of the coffin, climbed back up the social and political ladders, and has the President's ear. And, destroys Gotham.

- Are we meant to know how the first Knight and those other heroes imprisoned Dr. Dedalus? It's always been sort of vague. I'm also guessing it must have taken place after Kathy's supposed death, because Netz is in charge of Spyral in the flashbacks but Kathy is clearly in charge in the present.

He drugged them and put them through weird brainwashy stuff, the same as he does to Batman at the end of Inc vol 1, or near to the same. That's why Knight's so confused coming out of it.

- So the fake Dr. Dedalus was the man in charge of the facility before Otto screwed his brain up and escaped right? How does Batman figure out that it wasn't the real one? And why does he kill the Leviathan agent posing as a scientist if the real Dedalus is working for Leviathan anyway?

He's a bastard. And he's trying to present himself as a bastard who cannot be negotiated with.

- The Hood is working for T.H.E.Y to go undercover in Batman INC, and he is about to be killed by T.H.E.Y's Matron when it is revealed the Matron is really working for Spyral. But in vol. 2, the Hood is suddenly working for Spyral and Kathy. Was he always allied with them, or did Kathy and the Matron recruit him in between volumes?

My understanding was that he'd been recruited. Matron was secreting him out, basically.

[InformationGeek]

I'll be frank. I just didn't like it at all. Ignoring the fact that I am not remotely a fan of Chris Burnham's art style (especially during Inc, when it felt rougher than what he is currently producing), I just couldn't care. Morrison's interpretation of Talia was just frickin' dull and had no complexity to her in the slightest, just kind of another character Morrison is using to spout his THEMES (along with original Batwoman). Damian's death was hamfist due to how he lead into (the scene with him and Grayson before his death might as well had him say, I'm only one day away from retirement and getting too old for this s**t) and Knight's death was just ugly and pointless. The ending just completely peters out with really no resolution (to save time, I get the idea of Batman's story always going on, but that's just a poor excuse to me and doesn't wrap up anything). Tonally inconsistent at times and handwaves a few things just to fit pieces together (like Jason now being on good terms with everyone).

Just a mess and major disappointment (might have been on my worst of the year list, if not for wanting to limit it to one Batman book and Batman: The Dark Knight being awful). It should have just ended with Batman and Robin Must Die, which was so satisfying. Oh well, at least Tim Seeley and Tom King made Spyral actually interesting.

[SiegePerilous02]

He just... survived. He found a way out of the coffin, climbed back up the social and political ladders, and has the President's ear. And, destroys Gotham.

I kind of assumed that was the case, but just wanted to make sure. With Morrison, I tend to second guess my understanding a lot.

He drugged them and put them through weird brainwashy stuff, the same as he does to Batman at the end of Inc vol 1, or near to the same. That's why Knight's so confused coming out of it.

Huh, I never realized that, but I guess it's obvious in hindsight that that's what happened. So did Knight just get lucky and knock Dedalus out or something, and the military guys took over and imprisoned him on the island?

My understanding was that he'd been recruited. Matron was secreting him out, basically.

Funny, just as I submitted the post, it kind of clicked that Matron must have shot him with a tranq dart or something, and brought him to Kathy for an "interview."

[t hedge coke]

Oh well, at least Tim Seeley and Tom King made Spyral actually interesting.

Funnily (or not), I can't groove on their version of Spyral or St Hadrian's at all. It's just boring to me, no personality. No frisson.

And, I'm surprised you felt Knight's murder was pointless. Ugly, yes. It's brutal and pathetic and no one wants it, but that's kinda how death is. All of the deaths, I thought, were deliberate downers and hard to take, but they're clearly meant to be. They aren't heroic, glorious deaths. They're murders.

So did Knight just get lucky and knock Dedalus out or something, and the military guys took over and imprisoned him on the island?

That, I don't think we'll ever know. It may not even have been Knight. The troops may have gone in and made the victory, rescuing him (similar to how Kathy comes in to save Bats). It's pretty up in the air exactly what happened, and those who experienced it, may not even know.