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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    They can be interesting under a good writer. I never said that I would write the story. I could see Gerry Conway or Jim Starlin making the partnership between Spider-Man and The Taskmaster work, as well as a possible partnership between Deathbird and The Vulture.
    A "good" writer can make most fictional relationships Work. The point is what purpose it would serve and here the only real purpose is because you would like to see it. Which there is nothing wrong with, but as most responses to your ideas show not a lot of other posters are excited for your ideas.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bor View Post
    A "good" writer can make most fictional relationships Work. The point is what purpose it would serve and here the only real purpose is because you would like to see it. Which there is nothing wrong with, but as most responses to your ideas show not a lot of other posters are excited for your ideas.
    This. We're supposed to believe there's a story behind it, but that story doesn't seem to have much to it beyond "Wouldn't it be cool if…" It's like looking at the "What If?" concept and expecting that to be the main universe.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bor View Post
    A "good" writer can make most fictional relationships Work. The point is what purpose it would serve and here the only real purpose is because you would like to see it. Which there is nothing wrong with, but as most responses to your ideas show not a lot of other posters are excited for your ideas.
    One can say the same thing about Silk or Spider-Gwen as well as Deadpool being a part of Spider-Man's world. Most folks were not responsive to the introduction of Silk, Alpha, or Spider-Gwen at first. IMO, it's good to use other existing characters from other places as a means of branching out the MU. This way, it gives the writer more options to work with in case there is another opportunity around the corner. While my ideas doesn't always give a warm response, a good story always does the trick.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    One can say the same thing about Silk or Spider-Gwen as well as Deadpool being a part of Spider-Man's world. Most folks were not responsive to the introduction of Silk, Alpha, or Spider-Gwen at first. IMO, it's good to use other existing characters from other places as a means of branching out the MU. This way, it gives the writer more options to work with in case there is another opportunity around the corner. While my ideas doesn't always give a warm response, a good story always does the trick.
    Silk was made for Spider-Man's world and Spider-Gwen is a reinvention of one of Spider-Man's bigger love interests. They were designed from the beginning to suit Spider-Man, whereas you're suggesting altering preexisting characters to accommodate Spider-Man, and just because Deadpool has ties with Spider-Man doesn't mean that you can then expect other characters to meet with similar results. Writers may have more options to work with. Doesn't mean that taking advantage of those opportunities would necessarily lead to good results. Assuming that one character can fit in Spider-Man's "world" (Whatever that is supposed to mean) just because of another character only looks at shallow comparisons. You point to precedents, but how does that precedent allow a new character to fit in? If you're going to point to a precedent, then you also need to explain why that precedent worked in the first place, as that would inform how your idea could work as well. What is the effect of branching out the MU aside from just having the branch? Or is this all just a way of getting a Marvel Team-Up revival?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    They can be interesting under a good writer. I never said that I would write the story. I could see Gerry Conway or Jim Starlin making the partnership between Spider-Man and The Taskmaster work, as well as a possible partnership between Deathbird and The Vulture.
    Do you really know who Deathbird is?

    She's an intergalactic level threat whose attempted to even usurped Shi'ar at least once.

    The closest Spider-Fiend I could think of whose the closest to speaking to her with impunity, would be Norman Osborn, at the highest height of his S.H.I.E.L.D. / HAMMER / Asgard attempted takeover days, which I don't care for anyways.

    Vulture, however, especially down that ladder, is just a local New York area crook.

  6. #21
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    Is there actually any reason for Deathbird and Vulture to interact beyond them having a bird theme?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Roxas View Post
    Silk was made for Spider-Man's world and Spider-Gwen is a reinvention of one of Spider-Man's bigger love interests. They were designed from the beginning to suit Spider-Man, whereas you're suggesting altering preexisting characters to accommodate Spider-Man, and just because Deadpool has ties with Spider-Man doesn't mean that you can then expect other characters to meet with similar results. Writers may have more options to work with. Doesn't mean that taking advantage of those opportunities would necessarily lead to good results. Assuming that one character can fit in Spider-Man's "world" (Whatever that is supposed to mean) just because of another character only looks at shallow comparisons. You point to precedents, but how does that precedent allow a new character to fit in? If you're going to point to a precedent, then you also need to explain why that precedent worked in the first place, as that would inform how your idea could work as well. What is the effect of branching out the MU aside from just having the branch? Or is this all just a way of getting a Marvel Team-Up revival?
    Deadpool is pretty much deliberate, I mean his current personality/most famous personality by Joe Kelly basically makes it clear Deadpool is inspired by Spider-Man as a nudge to how he first made him and it's because Joe worked on Amazing the two character have close ties to each other. DP is like the cousin of Spider-Man's life he's ashamed to have LOL.
    Last edited by jimishim12; 02-27-2016 at 08:49 AM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimishim12 View Post
    Deadpool is pretty much deliberate, I mean his current personality/most famous personality by Joe Kelly basically makes it clear Deadpool is inspired by Spider-Man as a nudge to how he first made him and it's because Joe worked on Amazing the two character have close ties to each other. DP is like the cousin of Spider-Man's life he's ashamed to have LOL.
    Deadpool was not inspired by Spider-Man. He has more in common with Lobo and She-Hulk, the former being a parody of gritty action heroes and the latter being a fourth wall breaker.

  9. #24
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    Deadpool was created as a derivative of Deathstroke, which is pretty far away from Spider-Man. If there was any inspiration from Spider-Man, it's from Liefeld not being able to use Spider-Man in his books. As Agent Z pointed out, he's more like Lobo - a parody of 90s heroes. If you're going to cite Joe Kelly working on both characters, then that's a case where a writer is connecting the two characters they write. Deadpool had a variety of influences, but if you wish to point to Spider-Man - which, again, has more to do with Liefeld than Kelly - then that only reiterates how shallow Darthfury's suggestions are. This isn't about "branching out". It's about finding the barest of similarities between characters, not actually caring about anything that distinguishes the character, and rendering them completely interchangeable, with a lazy cooked up after the fact to justify the interactions, but because of the shallow reduction of the characters involved, it really wouldn't matter who you're telling the story with. That's not a "good" story. That's being generic in the worst possible way. Now, being generic or typical isn't necessarily a bad thing, but an otherwise "generic" story can be good based on forming its own identity in spite of that. All the various ideas of how someone is clearly based on someone, and that's all you need to know, and nothing else is important about them, and if you do point out anything unique and important that sets them apart, then the conversation just gets reset in a standard "The same could be said of…" excuse, which homogenizes the characters even further. No one is going to want to see X character hang out with Y when you reduce both characters so much that you could just focus on only one of them completely on their own just having a monologue, and it wouldn't actually be any different than the proposed interaction. If X and Y are made into identical characters, how would X and Y talking to each other be any different from X just talking to himself?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Deadpool was not inspired by Spider-Man. He has more in common with Lobo and She-Hulk, the former being a parody of gritty action heroes and the latter being a fourth wall breaker.
    Liefield(and Later Kelly) Called him the anti Peter Parker as the inspiration, the Alternative name is deliberate too, an article states this but I forgot the website.

  11. #26
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    We've also had alliterative names with the likes of Reed Richards and Bruce Banner, and the name "Wade Wilson" was chosen by Fabian Nicieza as a reference to Slade Wilson, because he had picked up on Liefeld just taking from Deathstroke.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    One can say the same thing about Silk or Spider-Gwen as well as Deadpool being a part of Spider-Man's world. Most folks were not responsive to the introduction of Silk, Alpha, or Spider-Gwen at first. IMO, it's good to use other existing characters from other places as a means of branching out the MU. This way, it gives the writer more options to work with in case there is another opportunity around the corner. While my ideas doesn't always give a warm response, a good story always does the trick.
    As pointed out by others both Silk and Spider-Gwen was made to be part of Spider-man´s World so its not the same thing. The other problem is that a lot of your suggestions seem to be extremely superficial like Vulture and dearthbird. One is alien that has been part of big intergalactic threats and at various times been either an enemy or ally to the x-men, and the other is an old man in a bird suit that more often then not just robbs banks... You are right thát sometimes combining various aspect of the MU Works but there is also plenty of times where it does not Work or is not really popular. The original champions (Hercules, iceman etc) might have its fans but generelly speaking it was not that great a succes. The point is to have a good reason for these random elements to be together and the only thing you do is say "a good writer could think of a reason" which is fine but not really convincing for most people.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bor View Post
    As pointed out by others both Silk and Spider-Gwen was made to be part of Spider-man´s World so its not the same thing. The other problem is that a lot of your suggestions seem to be extremely superficial like Vulture and dearthbird. One is alien that has been part of big intergalactic threats and at various times been either an enemy or ally to the x-men, and the other is an old man in a bird suit that more often then not just robbs banks... You are right thát sometimes combining various aspect of the MU Works but there is also plenty of times where it does not Work or is not really popular. The original champions (Hercules, iceman etc) might have its fans but generelly speaking it was not that great a succes. The point is to have a good reason for these random elements to be together and the only thing you do is say "a good writer could think of a reason" which is fine but not really convincing for most people.
    Random characters might not convince anyone that such a combination would work on paper until it's written well. Deathbird and The Vulture, for example could work due to their common interests. It takes a good writer to create a story of which it convinces the reader that it's a natural progression.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    Random characters might not convince anyone that such a combination would work on paper until it's written well. Deathbird and The Vulture, for example could work due to their common interests. It takes a good writer to create a story of which it convinces the reader that it's a natural progression.
    Again what common interest is that? One is an old man in a green feather suit robbing banks and yelling at Young people and one is an intergalactic warriors who has fought in actual Space wars.
    Yes it takes a good writer to do that but then you could literally argue for any combination/wierd team up ever but there are clearly some that Works better then others from a basic logic stand point. The fact that you cant even provide one but keep on refering to a good writer "could" do it might tell you that one of the reason no one has done a story like this is that most do not see any kind of potiental there. To me this seems like you just choose two characters that has nothing in common besides having a vague connection to birds, which Again there is nothing wrong with, and not actually have any knowlegde of the background of these characters.

    If I am wrong then fine, but maintaining that a good writer could make it Work or feel organic with´these two characters is not really any form of argument since that could be applied to any given story or characters.
    Last edited by Bor; 02-29-2016 at 12:54 PM.

  15. #30
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    If the argument is that a good writer can make use of something, you have to specify what they would be using. We can't actually believe a writer could take advantage of their common interests when, as Bor pointed you, we don't even know what those are. You throw around the phrase "natural progression", but you are giving absolutely no idea what they're progressing from.

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