What happened to Superman Unchained?

[Pharozonk]

"Mr. President, Khrushchev is putting missiles in Cuba, should we blackmail him using that awesome superpower we have immediately to prevent the possibility of nuclear war?"
"Nah, let's hope talking it out might work."

Psh, just call Magneto to take care of that.

[DochaDocha]

Which, in addition of making it distasteful, makes it completely pointless. This "revelation" does not give any kind of perspective on what happened, or changes History in any substantial way.
When Alan Moore makes Dr Manhattan wins the Vietnam War, he retcons History too, but he makes something with it: Manhattan's victory and overall presence -which creates a shift in the balance of power towards America- exasperates the relations between the US and USSR to the point where the two are at the brik of a nuclear war, which is the present state of the story.
Making for an interesting situation to explore.
When Snyder gives the US its own personal Superman right before WWII, it doesn't change a damn thing. We are supposed to believe that it still took years to defeat Hitler, that the Cold War happened the way it did....All it ended up doing is using a real world tragedy, with thousands of people dying either on the spot or after years of radiation poisonning, to make his villain sound badass. With the implication that countless tragedies were still his doing. I mean, what's next, he used his heatvision to burn alive Salvadore Allende?
Again,how would you guys feel if some writer showed up and made a story where 9/11 was caused by aliens?
Snyder wants to play the big boys with his "History as you know it is wrong" plot, but he doesn't want to deal with the consequences of his own story.
Basically, beyond the distastuflness of it all, it's the Owlman situation all over again. All show, no substance.

All of this, and stated better than I would have.

Again, I'm not offended by the reference to Nagasaki (helps that I'm not Japanese...), but another way I look at it is that some people are actually put off by it, and there's very few ways to counterbalance that. How necessary was this, anyway? Just seemed like a detail I could (and would) easily throw away, or heavily modify, and I can still get what I need to know about Wraith.

[misslane]

Which makes Lane's insults to Superman even more mind bogglingly stupid. I mean the government has their own pet superpower, and nothing in history changed?

You're missing the point. The point is that Wraith was that history. The history the New 52 universe understood to be true was the history that Wraith shaped as a tool of the U.S. government. All it means is that some of the things humanity believed the U.S. did without the aid of an alien were in fact accomplished via an alien. Lane insults Superman because Superman is unwilling to get involved in international geopolitics in the same way that the U.S. uses Wraith to covertly achieve its tactical objectives. The government only uses Wraith to advance its own interests, which also happens to mean imposing limits on the use of force and avoiding exposure at all costs. Superman refuses to make any concerted effort to use his powers to proactively address some of the most pernicious sources of evil in the world because it is important for him to adhere to a policy of non-interference. Wraith is not bound to that code.

[Auguste Dupin]

You're missing the point. The point is that Wraith was that history. The history the New 52 universe understood to be true was the history that Wraith shaped as a tool of the U.S. government. All it means is that some of the things humanity believed the U.S. did without the aid of an alien were in fact accomplished via an alien. Lane insults Superman because Superman is unwilling to get involved in international geopolitics in the same way that the U.S. uses Wraith to covertly achieve its tactical objectives. The government only uses Wraith to advance its own interests, which also happens to mean imposing limits on the use of force and avoiding exposure at all costs. Superman refuses to make any concerted effort to use his powers to proactively address some of the most pernicious sources of evil in the world because it is important for him to adhere to a policy of non-interference. Wraith is not bound to that code.

And the point you're missing is that there's no way a country who has an omnipotent God at his service would do the exact same things it would do without it.
Seriously, why would any country with a trump card like that no use it to prevent- ho I don't know- an humiliating defeat in Viet Nam? At Pig's Bay?To catch Ben Laden in a matter of seconds?
For things to have happened the way it did with someone like Wraith would require the entire US military for 75 years to be the single dumbest military force in history.
It's just not logical.

[misslane]

And the point you're missing is that there's no way a country who has an omnipotent God at his service would do the exact same things it would do without it.
Seriously, why would any country with a trump card like that no use it to prevent- ho I don't know- an humiliating defeat in Viet Nam? At Pig's Bay?To catch Ben Laden in a matter of seconds?
For things to have happened the way it did with someone like Wraith would require the entire US military for 75 years to be the single dumbest military force in history.
It's just not logical.

We have no idea how Wraith was being used during these periods in history. There could have been far worse disasters and wars he was off preventing while what we know of as history marched on. Plus, this disregards the vested interest the military industrial complex had for allowing wars to continue.

[Auguste Dupin]

We have no idea how Wraith was being used during these periods in history. There could have been far worse disasters and wars he was off preventing while what we know of as history marched on.

Which expains why he was nowhere to be seen when Darkseid invaded the planet I suppose. He was busy doing something more important than saving the planet.
"Sir, sir, we have unidentified aliens invading the planet. Should we use our secret superweapon to defeat them?
-Nah, let the metahumans we consider as criminals and that Amazon Woman we know nothing about deal with them".
Plus, if Wraith was busy fighting secret wars more important than putting an end to WWII, it would have been nice to, you know, mention it.

[misslane]

Which expains why he was nowhere to be seen when Darkseid invaded the planet I suppose.

Of course he was nowhere to be seen, that's usually how secret weapons work. For all we know, Wraith was helping the heroes out behind the scenes. I can't fault the military for successfully keeping their secret weapon a secret. If we knew he had helped out, then so would the rest of the world, which pretty much defeats his purpose.

[Mr. Mastermind]

We have no idea how Wraith was being used during these periods in history. There could have been far worse disasters and wars he was off preventing while what we know of as history marched on. Plus, this disregards the vested interest the military industrial complex had for allowing wars to continue.

You know what would help the corporations of America? If the Wraith conquered all of the Middle East, crushed all the Islamic extremist groups and stole all the oil. There's no reason why the US couldn't have done that by "defending" Israel in the 1948 war, the 6 Day War, the Yom Kippur war or whatever conflict in the Middle East that arises every other week.

If the US had a superweapon that powerful the world would look significantly different to what it does now. The Wraith's whole existence is a stupid plot hole.

Of course he was nowhere to be seen, that's usually how secret weapons work. For all we know, Wraith was helping the heroes out behind the scenes. I can't fault the military for successfully keeping their secret weapon a secret. If we knew he had helped out, then so would the rest of the world, which pretty much defeats his purpose.

But, why was the Wraith kept a secret? Having a superpowered alien (who other countries can't create or replicate) is a massive advantage over the rest of the world that would have solved so many problems so very quickly.

[misslane]

Which, in addition of making it distasteful, makes it completely pointless. This "revelation" does not give any kind of perspective on what happened, or changes History in any substantial way.

It's not distasteful. The tragedy of what happened and the brutality of the act are not downplayed, and the perspective on what happened comes from examining Wraith's role in the government's past actions in light of his and Superman's present. It challenges us to ask ourselves if we've truly learned from the past, or if we haven't by continuing to engage in the build up of the machinery of war. It also challenges one to examine the issue of agency. Wraith in the past, like Superman in the present, could choose to be a lethal weapon for the government. By presenting us with what Wraith has done at the command of the U.S. government, we can admire Superman's decision to remain outside of politics. Superman is similarly complimented when he later destroys the nuclear weapons which Ascension (anti-Wraith, anti-government) attempts to use to destroy The Machine (the U.S. military and its use of alien technology to shape history). All of these threads come together to support a larger theme about the flaw in using violence to defeat violence; for violence begets violence.

That said, if one does accept that manipulation of history is wrong, then it should be a plus that Unchained criticizes it too. Ascension's primary motivation is to stop The Machine from using alien technology to shape human history.

When Snyder gives the US its own personal Superman right before WWII, it doesn't change a damn thing. We are supposed to believe that it still took years to defeat Hitler, that the Cold War happened the way it did....All it ended up doing is using a real world tragedy, with thousands of people dying either on the spot or after years of radiation poisonning, to make his villain sound badass.

I don't think it's fair to simplify Snyder's choice to inculpate Wraith for Nagasaki as purely the result of a desire to aggrandize him as a badass. He is paralleled with an actual bomb, the one that was dropped on Hiroshima (the one bomb the U.S. did have per the story), so that we can view Wraith (and what Superman is being pressured to become) as mere tools or moving parts of the system, or more precisely The Machine. This Machine, including those who pulled the trigger on the bomb/Wraith, which killed all those people are being heavily criticized in this story as a means of imparting a message that encourages us to question not only our own views of what we want our government to do in the name of protecting us, but also our views of Superman, especially his decision not to become a tool for any one country.

Again,how would you guys feel if some writer showed up and made a story where 9/11 was caused by aliens?

This isn't what Unchained is saying. It isn't saying that Wraith, an alien, caused Nagasaki. It's saying that America caused Nagasaki and Wraith was just their tool to make it happen.

Snyder wants to play the big boys with his "History as you know it is wrong" plot, but he doesn't want to deal with the consequences of his own story.
Basically, beyond the distastuflness of it all, it's the Owlman situation all over again. All show, no substance.

There's plenty of beautiful, powerful substance. Layers of it, actually.

[Blacksun]

All of this, and stated better than I would have.

Again, I'm not offended by the reference to Nagasaki (helps that I'm not Japanese...), but another way I look at it is that some people are actually put off by it, and there's very few ways to counterbalance that. How necessary was this, anyway? Just seemed like a detail I could (and would) easily throw away, or heavily modify, and I can still get what I need to know about Wraith.

It's fiction nothing is necessary. I think is far away of being insulting, it's a fictional world where things happened different. It wasn't a conspiracy that it was the Japan government that killed their own people because of X thing.

You know what would help the corporations of America? If the Wraith conquered all of the Middle East, crushed all the Islamic extremist groups and stole all the oil. There's no reason why the US couldn't have done that by "defending" Israel in the 1948 war, the 6 Day War, the Yom Kippur war or whatever conflict in the Middle East that arises every other week.

If the US had a superweapon that powerful the world would look significantly different to what it does now. The Wraith's whole existence is a stupid plot hole.



But, why was the Wraith kept a secret? Having a superpowered alien (who other countries can't create or replicate) is a massive advantage over the rest of the world that would have solved so many problems so very quickly.

New 52 universe may or not be like our universe.

[Auguste Dupin]

Of course he was nowhere to be seen, that's usually how secret weapons work. For all we know, Wraith was helping the heroes out behind the scenes. I can't fault the military for successfully keeping their secret weapon a secret. If we knew he had helped out, then so would the rest of the world, which pretty much defeats his purpose.

And for all we know, Wraith was busy playing X box while the real heroes were doing all the work.
I don't deal in "for all I know". I deal in facts.
Fact 1: I'm told that the US had a superweapon for 75 years.
Fact 2: I'm told that, somehow, the US ended up in the exact same place than in a world without said superweapon, including when it comes to military achievements.
Fact 3: Nothing I am being told remotely suggest that he was involved in any "secret super important war" of any sort.
Conclusion based on these facts: Wraith is led by the dumbest military force in history.
If Snyder wants me to think any different, he should give me more facts to work with. I'm not here to do the work in his place with my speculative imagination.
Plus, I'm sure keeping him a secret would have been totally worth it after Darkseid turns the planet into a Hellpit and the entire Earth population into brainwashed slaves.

[misslane]

If the US had a superweapon that powerful the world would look significantly different to what it does now. The Wraith's whole existence is a stupid plot hole.

No, it's not. The U.S. had a superweapon so powerful it used him to covertly deal with threats to national and world security. Because of his unknown influence on history, we have no idea how many times Wraith was deployed to cope with threats beyond our knowledge merely to maintain the historical status quo as we know it.

But, why was the Wraith kept a secret? Having a superpowered alien (who other countries can't create or replicate) is a massive advantage over the rest of the world that would have solved so many problems so very quickly.

Wraith is being kept a secret so he can be used for whatever purpose the U.S. wants to use him without causing an international metahuman arms race.

[misslane]

Again, I'm not offended by the reference to Nagasaki (helps that I'm not Japanese...), but another way I look at it is that some people are actually put off by it, and there's very few ways to counterbalance that. How necessary was this, anyway? Just seemed like a detail I could (and would) easily throw away, or heavily modify, and I can still get what I need to know about Wraith.

It's obvious the detail was very important. Again, Wraith is being paralleled with an actual bomb: a machine. He's working for The Machine. Broadening this out, he comes to represent the Machine of War and the machinery of war which marches on perpetuating violence instead of peace. The later inclusion of a new, worse nuclear holocaust, which Superman prevents, underscores the non-proliferation and anti-violence message of the story. That message honors the dead of Nagasaki by criticizing the use of such lethal force against them and urging us readers, through the story, to examine our beliefs about war and what we will condone. It asks us to be like Superman: to challenge a government demanding our obedience. It asks us to be like Lois: to demand knowledge and the truth. Nagasaki isn't being disgraced here, and losing the detail would be extremely detrimental to the themes Snyder is exploring which actually honor the lessons of Nagasaki.

[misslane]

And for all we know, Wraith was busy playing X box while the real heroes were doing all the work.
I don't deal in "for all I know". I deal in facts.
Fact 1: I'm told that the US had a superweapon for 75 years.
Fact 2: I'm told that, somehow, the US ended up in the exact same place than in a world without said superweapon, including when it comes to military achievements.
Fact 3: Nothing I am being told remotely suggest that he was involved in any "secret super important war" of any sort.
Conclusion based on these facts: Wraith is led by the dumbest military force in history.
If Snyder wants me to think any different, he should give me more facts to work with. I'm not here to do the work in his place with my speculative imagination.

You're not dealing with facts, though. While nothing you've been told points to Wraith being used in secret ops elsewhere while the historical status quo continued unchanged, it is equally true that nothing you've been told points to Wraith not being used in that way. You have no idea how the U.S. managed Wraith or made decisions on how to use him throughout history. You're drawing conclusions based on assumptions as much as I am. In both cases, we're dealing with argumentum ad ignorantiam.

Plus, I'm sure keeping him a secret would have been totally worth it after Darkseid turns the planet into a Hellpit and the entire Earth population into brainwashed slaves.

Since Wraith's reveal was not necessary to prevent Darkseid from taking over Earth in the New 52, I cannot say whether or not the U.S. intended to keep him hidden even at the cost of Earth and humanity itself. Plus, Wraith even says he secretly has fought alongside Superman, so he very well could have helped.

[Auguste Dupin]

It's not distasteful. The tragedy of what happened and the brutality of the act are not downplayed, and the perspective on what happened comes from examining Wraith's role in the government's past actions in light of his and Superman's present. It challenges us to ask ourselves if we've truly learned from the past, or if we haven't by continuing to engage in the build up of the machinery of war. It also challenges one to examine the issue of agency. Wraith in the past, like Superman in the present, could choose to be a lethal weapon for the government. By presenting us with what Wraith has done at the command of the U.S. government, we can admire Superman's decision to remain outside of politics. Superman is similarly complimented when he later destroys the nuclear weapons which Ascension (anti-Wraith, anti-government) attempts to use to destroy The Machine (the U.S. military and its use of alien technology to shape history). All of these threads come together to support a larger theme about the flaw in using violence to defeat violence; for violence begets violence.

That said, if one does accept that manipulation of history is wrong, then it should be a plus that Unchained criticizes it too. Ascension's primary motivation is to stop The Machine from using alien technology to shape human history.

I don't think it's fair to simplify Snyder's choice to inculpate Wraith for Nagasaki as purely the result of a desire to aggrandize him as a badass. He is paralleled with an actual bomb, the one that was dropped on Hiroshima (the one bomb the U.S. did have per the story), so that we can view Wraith (and what Superman is being pressured to become) as mere tools or moving parts of the system, or more precisely The Machine. This Machine, including those who pulled the trigger on the bomb/Wraith, which killed all those people are being heavily criticized in this story as a means of imparting a message that encourages us to question not only our own views of what we want our government to do in the name of protecting us, but also our views of Superman, especially his decision not to become a tool for any one country.



This isn't what Unchained is saying. It isn't saying that Wraith, an alien, caused Nagasaki. It's saying that America caused Nagasaki and Wraith was just their tool to make it happen.



There's plenty of beautiful, powerful substance. Layers of it, actually.

-A message that would have remained unchanged had Wraith just celebrated his first year as a part of the US military.
Not to mention that it's not a heartfelt message, it's a commonplace.
Ho, no, war is bad, and killing for a governement without thinking is just as bad.
I have seen cartoons with a more developped message than this.

-Could have bombed any place, any fictionnal place, and , again, the message would remain the same. He's just trying to pump up his villain as an important figure of history without actually making him an important figure of history. The fact he chose to have him replace Nagasaki,instead of Hiroshima is actually pretty revealing. He can't have replaced Atomic bombs, because that would actually change things, so he has to replace the second bomb only for the most contrived of reasons.

-Ho, okay.
So instead, the second of the Twin Towers (not the two of them of course) was destroyed by an alien raised from birth by Ben Laden. It worked exactly as if a plane crashed into it, but it was actually an alien pretending to be a plane, because.......having two planes was too much organisation?
And he didn't destroyed both towers because......reasons.
See? that sounds stupid.

-No. There's plenty of commonplace treated as layers of substance by the use of monologues and historical reappropriation that he isn't even able to master in a way that makes his own story make sense. The coherence of the plot sacrified to an illusion of substance.That's what I call a show.