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  1. #286

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wedge Antilles View Post
    Joining the gathering.
    Fav characters: Mac, Aurora, Northstar.
    It broke my heart when Mac was "killed" in the battle with Omega Flight.
    Welcome to the thread! How far into Alpha Flight did you read? All of the original series? Any of the following series?
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  2. #287
    Just a Host. Cold Water's Avatar
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    Mantlo's run, so far, has been cringe-worthy.
    I cannot believe what he's doing to 95% of my characters right now.
    "All it takes for sexism to prosper is for good men to see nothing."

  3. #288
    Just a Host. Cold Water's Avatar
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    Seriously, yet again, I am reminded on how difficult it is for most writers to write a strong female character. *sigh*
    I miss the real Heather.
    *cries*
    "All it takes for sexism to prosper is for good men to see nothing."

  4. #289
    Spectacular Member Ravyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Water View Post
    Seriously, yet again, I am reminded on how difficult it is for most writers to write a strong female character. *sigh*
    I miss the real Heather.
    *cries*
    I feel your pain. I was dreading hearing your reaction to Mantlo's terrible run.

    That's exactly how I felt when I originally read it. As if Byrne hadn't put my favourite characters through enough *ANGST* & *DRAMAZ!!!* At least with Byrne they were still recognizable as the same people.

    Mantlo just went off and did his own mediocre thing.

    At least I can promise you that um... that it gets better? Eventually? At least you don't have to wait a decade or two to read some decent Alpha Flight stories again.

    Looking sooooo forward to the Amazing X-Men issue next week!

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyn View Post
    I feel your pain. I was dreading hearing your reaction to Mantlo's terrible run.

    That's exactly how I felt when I originally read it. As if Byrne hadn't put my favourite characters through enough *ANGST* & *DRAMAZ!!!* At least with Byrne they were still recognizable as the same people.

    Mantlo just went off and did his own mediocre thing.

    At least I can promise you that um... that it gets better? Eventually? At least you don't have to wait a decade or two to read some decent Alpha Flight stories again.

    Looking sooooo forward to the Amazing X-Men issue next week!
    The wait is going to be PAINFUL.
    Seriously, Northstar's snark at Heather is the ONLY THING making her semi-tolerable in the books right now (where I am at). I WANT TO SCREAM.
    She was so one of my very faves during Byrne's run.
    And now, I don't even know what she is/who she is.
    She's so bitchy. She's so demanding. And now Wolverine originally left Alpha Flight because he needed space between him and Heather because he was in love with her? Wtf? Really? Was this EVER noted anywhere else other than Mantlo's AF run??
    So, now we have Puck in love with her (which I get because that was started during Byrne's run) AND Wolverine. I hear Jeffries falls for her too?
    What about Aurora? She's free since poor Walter was killed off (during Byrne's run). Can't Aurora get some attention?
    Everyone keeps telling me it gets better (at least by a little bit), but I don't know. Of course, I'm going to keep reading it, but the Puck origins story?? JESUS. REALLY???????????
    That set me off as well!
    "All it takes for sexism to prosper is for good men to see nothing."

  6. #291
    Spectacular Member Ravyn's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's one of the things that made me so sad about Mantlo's time on the book: what he did to Heather.

    I really liked her under Byrne - she seemed like such a decent, level-headed, smart, down-to-earth woman. Then she became such a ridiculous insecure nasty mess. That every man who ever got within sneezing distance wanted to get sexy with, for some inexplicable reason.

    And as far as it getting better, well, um, it doesn't, actually. I meant that it gets better eventually, decades after crappy Alpha Flight gets cancelled and forgotten. Then brought back just to be killed in the Avengers. But they get better, and then eventually get a pretty decent short new series with awesome art by Dale Eaglesham in 2011 that finally felt like the true Alpha Flight (though you won't like Heather here either *spoilers*). At least you don't have to wait to read that series - you can pick it up now if you want.

    Maybe other fans can recommend some decent stories in the in the in-between years. I wouldn't know as I gave up and stopped reading about eight issues in to Mantlo's run.
    Last edited by Ravyn; 05-30-2014 at 10:52 PM.

  7. #292
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Don't fret too much Cold Water, it does get better! You still have Hudnall, Nicieza, Lobdell, and Furman coming up! And while your mileage may vary, they're all improvements on Mantlo's stuff!
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  8. #293
    Just a Host. Cold Water's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyn View Post
    Yeah, that's one of the things that made me so sad about Mantlo's time on the book: what he did to Heather.

    I really liked her under Byrne - she seemed like such a decent, level-headed, smart, down-to-earth woman. Then she became such a ridiculous insecure nasty mess. That every man who ever got within sneezing distance wanted to get sexy with, for some inexplicable reason.
    YES. And I don't know why he turned her into such an indecisive woman. She was great under Byrne, I think. I FELT for her when she lost Mac. I did. And now she's just some crazy idiot.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyn View Post
    And as far as it getting better, well, um, it doesn't, actually. I meant that it gets better eventually, decades after crappy Alpha Flight gets cancelled and forgotten. Then brought back just to be killed in the Avengers. But they get better, and then eventually get a pretty decent short new series with awesome art by Dale Eaglesham in 2011 that finally felt like the true Alpha Flight (though you won't like Heather here either *spoilers*). At least you don't have to wait to read that series - you can pick it up now if you want.

    Maybe other fans can recommend some decent stories in the in the in-between years. I wouldn't know as I gave up and stopped reading about eight issues in to Mantlo's run.
    I received an AF trade by Greg Pak yesterday. I wasn't quite sure what I was ordering, but it's here, and the art seems pretty decent.
    I've decided that no matter how bad it gets, I'm going to stick with AF because Byrne made me love these characters. And I KNOW that they become non-Byrne-like, but I am going to love them anyway, even if I end up hating them.
    "All it takes for sexism to prosper is for good men to see nothing."

  9. #294
    Just a Host. Cold Water's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Don't fret too much Cold Water, it does get better! You still have Hudnall, Nicieza, Lobdell, and Furman coming up! And while your mileage may vary, they're all improvements on Mantlo's stuff!
    This is comforting to hear.
    "All it takes for sexism to prosper is for good men to see nothing."

  10. #295
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Water View Post
    The wait is going to be PAINFUL.
    Seriously, Northstar's snark at Heather is the ONLY THING making her semi-tolerable in the books right now (where I am at). I WANT TO SCREAM.
    She was so one of my very faves during Byrne's run.
    And now, I don't even know what she is/who she is.
    She's so bitchy. She's so demanding. And now Wolverine originally left Alpha Flight because he needed space between him and Heather because he was in love with her? Wtf? Really? Was this EVER noted anywhere else other than Mantlo's AF run??
    So, now we have Puck in love with her (which I get because that was started during Byrne's run) AND Wolverine. I hear Jeffries falls for her too?
    What about Aurora? She's free since poor Walter was killed off (during Byrne's run). Can't Aurora get some attention?
    Everyone keeps telling me it gets better (at least by a little bit), but I don't know. Of course, I'm going to keep reading it, but the Puck origins story?? JESUS. REALLY???????????
    That set me off as well!
    After #50, I'd say Mantlo's Alpha gets even worse, but the art of a young Jim Lee sure makes it much more palatable (even though I'm a HUGE Dave Ross fan). He also introduces, IMHO, AF second greatest antagonist: The Dream Queen. With Hundall the stories really get better, though I was not a fan of the art. Nicieza's run is my favorite AF, and Lobdell's is not so bad. Furman's, IMHO, was too much imersed in tie ins and cross-overs, but it sure had it's moments. I'm also a Pat Broderick fan, so that was a plus for me. Bottom line, while not Byrne, AF vol 1 has its ups and down, but it remains an enjoyable read right up to the end.
    And the Greg Pak TPB is a great read.

    Peace

  11. #296
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    Of course , the end of Mantlo's run was this bizarre issue where the issue breaks the fourth wall and have the characters of the book addressing Mantlo directly and refusing to follow his plot.






  12. #297
    Just a Host. Cold Water's Avatar
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    ohmygod, I can't.
    I just cannot even read that breaking of the fourth wall scan.

    Oh my heart hurts.
    "All it takes for sexism to prosper is for good men to see nothing."

  13. #298
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    While I didn't love pretty much any of post-Byrne Flight, I did find it fascinating how offbeat some of the new characters were.

    Manikin, above, had a crazy power, similar to the Legion of Super-Heroes-adjacent character Evolvo Lad (who could evolve himself into a super-smart psychic self with a big brain, or devolve himself into a unnaturally strong cave-dude). But the ability to summon a future self, a caveman self *and* a protoplasmic blob? That's just funky.

    Goblyn / Laura Dean / Pathway was another unusual one, with interesting potential, and more normal characters in Windshear and Witchfire (a name shared with a DC magic-user, oddly).

    I kind of feel like every attempt at re-launching Alpha Flight with its original membership post-Byrne has more or less sucked hard, and that most of them, like Northstar hanging with the X-Men, or Snowbird with the 'God Squad,' would probably be better served to never see each other again, while any new Canadian super-team focused more on Beta/Gamma/Omega Flight characters. I'd rather read that Heather, Walter, Jean-Marie and Michael Twoyoungmen are off somewhere, living happily ever after, working for the Canadian government, doing research, living it up or being the shamanic Canadian version of the Sorcerer Supreme, than have them dragged out every 10 years or so to suck mightily for six months and then get shoved off-stage again.

  14. #299
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    While I didn't love pretty much any of post-Byrne Flight, I did find it fascinating how offbeat some of the new characters were.

    Manikin, above, had a crazy power, similar to the Legion of Super-Heroes-adjacent character Evolvo Lad (who could evolve himself into a super-smart psychic self with a big brain, or devolve himself into a unnaturally strong cave-dude). But the ability to summon a future self, a caveman self *and* a protoplasmic blob? That's just funky.

    Goblyn / Laura Dean / Pathway was another unusual one, with interesting potential, and more normal characters in Windshear and Witchfire (a name shared with a DC magic-user, oddly).

    I kind of feel like every attempt at re-launching Alpha Flight with its original membership post-Byrne has more or less sucked hard, and that most of them, like Northstar hanging with the X-Men, or Snowbird with the 'God Squad,' would probably be better served to never see each other again, while any new Canadian super-team focused more on Beta/Gamma/Omega Flight characters. I'd rather read that Heather, Walter, Jean-Marie and Michael Twoyoungmen are off somewhere, living happily ever after, working for the Canadian government, doing research, living it up or being the shamanic Canadian version of the Sorcerer Supreme, than have them dragged out every 10 years or so to suck mightily for six months and then get shoved off-stage again.
    Vol. 3 by Scott Lodbell followed more or less this path, with the original team being taken out of the picture early on, while sasquatch led a neotype team. Omega Flight also.

    Peace

  15. #300

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Water View Post
    Mantlo's run, so far, has been cringe-worthy.
    I cannot believe what he's doing to 95% of my characters right now.
    Seriously, yet again, I am reminded on how difficult it is for most writers to write a strong female character. *sigh*
    I miss the real Heather. *cries*
    She was so one of my very faves during Byrne's run.
    And now, I don't even know what she is/who she is.
    She's so bitchy. She's so demanding. And now Wolverine originally left Alpha Flight because he needed space between him and Heather because he was in love with her? Wtf? Really? Was this EVER noted anywhere else other than Mantlo's AF run??
    So, now we have Puck in love with her (which I get because that was started during Byrne's run) AND Wolverine. I hear Jeffries falls for her too?
    Just wait. Just wait until she makes some "leadership" decisions that "impact" the team "severely."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyn View Post
    Yeah, that's one of the things that made me so sad about Mantlo's time on the book: what he did to Heather.
    I really liked her under Byrne - she seemed like such a decent, level-headed, smart, down-to-earth woman. Then she became such a ridiculous insecure nasty mess. That every man who ever got within sneezing distance wanted to get sexy with, for some inexplicable reason. And as far as it getting better, well, um, it doesn't, actually. I meant that it gets better eventually, decades after crappy Alpha Flight gets cancelled and forgotten. Then brought back just to be killed in the Avengers. But they get better, and then eventually get a pretty decent short new series with awesome art by Dale Eaglesham in 2011 that finally felt like the true Alpha Flight (though you won't like Heather here either *spoilers*). At least you don't have to wait to read that series - you can pick it up now if you want. Maybe other fans can recommend some decent stories in the in the in-between years. I wouldn't know as I gave up and stopped reading about eight issues in to Mantlo's run.
    I will say - I can't remember who it was - but whoever wrote the Llan the Sorcerer storyline - is by far, bar none - the worse story telling in Comic Book History. Makes Puck's origin story by Mantilo look like a golden piece of history!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I kind of feel like every attempt at re-launching Alpha Flight with its original membership post-Byrne has more or less sucked hard, and that most of them, like Northstar hanging with the X-Men, or Snowbird with the 'God Squad,' would probably be better served to never see each other again, while any new Canadian super-team focused more on Beta/Gamma/Omega Flight characters. I'd rather read that Heather, Walter, Jean-Marie and Michael Twoyoungmen are off somewhere, living happily ever after, working for the Canadian government, doing research, living it up or being the shamanic Canadian version of the Sorcerer Supreme, than have them dragged out every 10 years or so to suck mightily for six months and then get shoved off-stage again.
    I think the problem with that is trying to get readers to buy into completely new characters. Especially these days. This is why, I think anyway - that Alpha Flight had a nice shot in the beginning. Not because it was just Byrne doing it - but also because they had repeatedly appeared in the Uncanny X-Men years before, so they were established.

    The problem right now is, that the majority of Marvel, right now, to me, sucks $#!+.
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