Alpha Flight Fans: Gather

[Cold Water]

*cannot read Nomads' post because: Not there yet*
Sorry, Nomads. Nothing personal. <3

[Adam-X]

So glad to see this thread. Things are feeling better now.

Yay Alpha!

Indeed! Glad to see that someone resurrected this thread after, what I am calling "The Wipe Event." (silly twist on a New Universe reference...)

I have soooo many threads to put up scans for, but I am going to make this one (and the Namor one) a priority.
Unfortunately, I'm not feeling well today, so you all have to keep this bumped so everyone can remember to appreciate Alpha Flight. <3

Well thank you for making this thread again!

Can someone post Flex pix for me plz?!

I am way behind in the thread, if someone hasn't I am sure I can dig up a photo.

Kyle and Yosts first arc I believe and in the Ask Mike Marts thread, I asked if this was a try out for a possible new ongoing. Fingers crossed.

and

Love me some Alpha Flight. I really hope marvel can get behind another attempt at an ongoing soon.

As long as they give it to someone who cares about the book...

Aren't Alpha Flight due to show up in the next arc of Amazing X-Men? I'm pretty sure I saw that in the solicits.

Yes, and I am looking forward to it!

Did you send this question into Marts, or just post it in the thread?
If you sent it into him, I hope he answers, and if he does, let us know.
Because: YessssssyesYASSSSSSS. More Alpha Flight!!!!

Now I'm kind of stupidly excited.

No, if only everyone cared as much as you do.

Given that the last series bombed pretty badly just a couple of years ago, I don't think we'll be getting another iteration of Alpha Flight quite so soon. I am pleased that Marvel is keeping them a bit more active this time, though. Maybe the sales of v.4 taught them a lesson about what happens when you let your own IP be reduced to nothing more than a one-note joke.

Did it bomb though? I thought it was well received?

Being a Canadian myself I would like to see the series return. Unfortunately there does not seem to be enough interest to make such a series do well.

Which boggles my mind, considering some of the things Marvel puts out, that somehow sells, and yet is not great by any stretch of the imagination.

I love Talisman! She is my favourite Alpha Flight character and should replace Shaman already. I loved that she was a focal character in Omega Flight but the rest of the cast sucked. I hope she appears in upcoming Amazing X-men arc.

I absolutely love Talisman, but I don't know if I am okay with Shaman being retired away! I love Shaman!

Considering what Kyle and Yost are known for, I am very very afraid for them to write Alpha.

I know they killed Diamond Lil, right - but they have been doing GREAT over in NEW WARRIORS. So I am hopeful.

[Adam-X]

Alpha Flight Dojinshi Style! IIRC, these were done by Yujin Ishikawa

While normally not a fan of the "anime" art style, I have to admit Snowbird is just perfect here.

[Adam-X]

I would love to see another Alpha Flight ongoing, but I would be perfectly content with a maxi-series. Style it like Byrne's run, each issue focusing on a single character, then wrap it all up in the end. Except no deaths please!

I would be cool with that.

OH NO.
Byrne's last issue is #28??

And WHHHYYYYYYY was I fooled into thinking Mac was really resurrected???
I feel the same disappointment as I did when I read The Return of Barry Allen.
I am on issue #28.

Where do I go from here?

Is #29 and on collected in TPB?

I FEEL SO LET DOWN.
I AM SO SAD.

Yeah. Alpha Flight - the comic - is about to hit some really rough spots. I am curious what your thoughts will be on these issues post-Byrne!

Also: I just ordered #29-46 in singles.
WEEEEEEEEE.
Now, the two week wait begins.

I'll occupy that time with finishing off the last bit of Claremont's New Mutants, Excalibur, and old Captain Britain stories.
BUT IT WON'T BE THE SAME.

New Mutants was such a good book in the beginning too...

[Anduinel]

Did it bomb though? I thought it was well received?

I already did the sales post. So far as acclaim, it started off with pretty good reviews, but the sites that were still reviewing it by the end were not kind. Excepting, of course, places like AF.net, which are even less impartial than most comic books reviews.

Which boggles my mind, considering some of the things Marvel puts out, that somehow sells, and yet is not great by any stretch of the imagination.

The last series wasn't exactly great either, though. Plus it was operating under the handicap of the cast hardly being used in the prior decade, being treated like jokes when they were, and being killed off as an afterthought. That's not the kind of handling that's going to convince folks the series is a must-have.

I know they killed Diamond Lil, right - but they have been doing GREAT over in NEW WARRIORS. So I am hopeful.

That's just Yost. As a solo act, he tends to be a lot more restrained. As a team, he and Kyle tend to write a lot of gratuitous death and torture porn.

[Adam-X]

While Alpha Flight started from the x-men , this thread should really be on the main marvel forum , not the x-books.

I would disagree. While it doesn't have "mutants" - it started in the X-Men pages (Vindicator's first appearance, and later Alpha Flight's first appearance). Alpha has appeared quite a bit with the X-Men, and had a number of cross overs with them. It seems more fitting here than the general Marvel.

Why do you keep breaking my heart, Alpha Flight?

I hated that they killed Sasquatch here. This is why I think the team really starts falling apart, because this becomes a trend.

Yeah. I love Alpha Flight, but it never surprised me for a moment that Northstar seemed to prefer being with the X-Men. Which hey, fine by me. I think it's great character development.

Oh, right. The X-Men. The team where Professor Xavier, apparently mind wiped everyone into forgetting about Vulcan's team going to Krakora, and hiding the fact from Scott and Alex that they had a third brother that he knew about. Yeah, Professor Xavier has much better morals than Snowbird!

[Anduinel]

Oh, right. The X-Men. The team where Professor Xavier, apparently mind wiped everyone into forgetting about Vulcan's team going to Krakora, and hiding the fact from Scott and Alex that they had a third brother that he knew about. Yeah, Professor Xavier has much better morals than Snowbird!

I think you might have missed the context of that discussion, just a bit.

[Nomads1]

*cannot read Nomads' post because: Not there yet*
Sorry, Nomads. Nothing personal. <3

It's Okay. No offense taken. I completely understand.

Peace

[Adam-X]

ADAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You found us! I am so glad.

You should put your statues up again. YAY!!! You're HERE!
SOHAPPY.

I will repost the statues, and the other things I have Alpha related!

Yes, but I still adore him.
ggggrrrrrreeeeaaattttt, that's exactly what I want to hear. Being as I just finished Byrne's run, and now I am going to start Mantlo's next.
But I am obsessed with this team. So, I'm not sure that even bad points in the book will stop me from reading them.

I am looking forward to your thoughts... Especially when you get to Llan the Sorcerer... and see what you think of the writing and the art right around then...

Heather seemed to think of Alpha as her problamatic children that she had to raise with a firm hand, and not as her peers. More than once, she chose killing teammates as solution to a problem

Which, ya know, makes you wonder about her skills as a mother (a storyline I think that just got dropped - since her and Mac had a child!)

[Adam-X]

I think you might have missed the context of that discussion, just a bit.

LOL! Well you were saying why Northstar preferred X-Men rather than Alpha (because of what Snowbird did to him, and how Heather reacted)... I was mostly just poking fun that EVERY hero (including the once perfect Professor Xavier is tarnished greatly... and the irony being - I _hate_ the whole Vulcan storyline... Though, I admit I did like the War of Kings and all the space saga with him - just wish he wasn't tied to the X-Men the way he was...)

[Anduinel]

I liked a lot Mantalo's run, mostly because they really started acting as a team under him (instead as the random relutant gathering of heroes they were under Byrne), and he started developing Madison Jeffries, which went on to become my second favorite Alphan. And I liked the line-up. However, it was a run that wasn't short of hic-ups for me. First, his "origin" for Puck really was a dud, IMHO. Second, he really turned on the crazy on all the members, maximizing all their neurosis and making some of them really hard to like. And, thirdly, and najorly, he really made me deslike Heather as Alpha's leader, a character I really liked as a supporting character (she gave a sense of realism and normalacy as a supporting character), despite the awkard and slightly creepy cohersion/subtle black-mailing love/marriage proposal Byrne wrote for
her and Mac.

About the only thing I thought Mantlo did well was the horror atmosphere. The whole Scrambler plot was remarkably effective in its creepiness. Everything else was just off. I disliked how Mantlo pared down the team's uniqueness and diversity until they were pretty much just another superhero team living out of a mansion. I disliked how every character became a caricature of themselves. I hated what he ultimately did to Bochs and Puck. His plans for Northstar were horrible, as was his treatment of Aurora. Kara was weirdly implemented and got way more page time than she was due. Heather went from being a level headed planner to whining and moaning about her lack of powers every five minutes. Manikin...wasn't the worst character ever, but that didn't mean I wanted to see more of him, especially not with Kara.

So no, can't say I'm a fan.

[Adam-X]

The last series wasn't exactly great either, though. Plus it was operating under the handicap of the cast hardly being used in the prior decade, being treated like jokes when they were, and being killed off as an afterthought. That's not the kind of handling that's going to convince folks the series is a must-have.

I think a solid writer and artist team could make it good again. But it has to be someone who cares. What I feel like happened with the original run after Byrne left - was that folks were put on Alpha Flight, when they had no interest in it. So they didn't have a grasp of the team, they would kill or change characters just because they didn't seem to have any other ideas, and sometimes completely remove characters, so that they could add their own creations, rather than developing what was there in front of them.

[Adam-X]

I hated what he ultimately did to Bochs and Puck. So no, can't say I'm a fan.

So I disliked the Razer story - in how it affected Puck - but I didn't mind the villain. I just wish it wasn't tied to Puck the way it was. I thought that story was pretty horrible.

[Nomads1]

I liked Pestilance as a villain. Plus, though on the second leg of his run, Mantalo also created arguably the second biggest X-Men villian, The Dream Queen (Though, IMHO, it was Hundall that really made her shine).

Peace

[Anduinel]

LOL! Well you were saying why Northstar preferred X-Men rather than Alpha (because of what Snowbird did to him, and how Heather reacted)... I was mostly just poking fun that EVERY hero (including the once perfect Professor Xavier is tarnished greatly... and the irony being - I _hate_ the whole Vulcan storyline... Though, I admit I did like the War of Kings and all the space saga with him - just wish he wasn't tied to the X-Men the way he was...)

Yep, I get the jist of the joke, I'm just pointing out that the punchline doesn't fit, since the point you seem to be making (all superheroes work on a really dodgy scale of ethics) doesn't quite line up with the follow-up discussion or how the circumstances of Northstar joining Alpha Flight differ from how he joined the X-Men.

I think a solid writer and artist team could make it good again. But it has to be someone who cares. What I feel like happened with the original run after Byrne left - was that folks were put on Alpha Flight, when they had no interest in it. So they didn't have a grasp of the team, they would kill or change characters just because they didn't seem to have any other ideas, and sometimes completely remove characters, so that they could add their own creations, rather than developing what was there in front of them.

The last team cared very much -- Van Lente was an old-school fan from the Byrne years and Eaglesham was passionate about the book, doing a heck of a lot of research to actually get the settings right instead of having the team fight in Generic City #346. I think part of the issue was that the writers believed that team's awesome qualities were so self-evident that they didn't have to bother making the characters overly likable, and that they forgot just how long the team had been out of play, so they didn't work too hard on selling why people should care if the Canadian Avengers get brainwashed or whathaveyou.

I do agree that AF too often gets used as canon fodder, and that we're not going to see a successful take on the team until they're treated more seriously. I'd definitely like to see them incorporated more positively into the MU before Marvel tries their hand at a fifth volume. I think anyone working with AF should really take a page from the early appearances where the team was being introduced. They were there to be beaten, yes, but they were introduced as a credible threat, despite their inexperience with teamwork. And later, when Wolverine went up north to make peace, the defeat of the Wendigo was a matter of cooperation, not Alpha Flight getting punked and Wolverine saving the day. If they're ever just going to be used in order to make more popular characters look better or establish the villain's threat level, it's just not going to be worth trying to give them their own book again.