Is DC trying to cover up the Damian problem?

[darkseidpwns]

It comes down to Snyder and Tynion having a certain story they want to tell, and Damian just doesn't fit into it. Whether or not that story they're telling is any good depends ultimately on the execution of its ideas. It should stand or fall based on what it is, instead of what it's not.

True and I will defend their right to write their own stories but I still question why James Tynion gets to decide the direction and nature of the Bat mythos? seriously what's he done? ride Snyders coat tails? have other writers script his stories? I've actually liked much of his work but this makes no sense to me at all.

[joybeans]

Yes but why is Damian, the current Robin, the only one who doesn't fit in this celebration of Robin story of theirs. That doesn't make sense to me. The only sense i can make out of it that they don't want him there, and thats what i find alarming about it.

It's a celebration event, but it's still also a story that needs to be created by someone. And those someones perhaps just don't know how to incorporate him. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

True and I will defend their right to write their own stories but I still question why James Tynion gets to decide the direction and nature of the Bat mythos? seriously what's he done? ride Snyders coat tails? have other writers script his stories? I've actually liked much of his work but this makes no sense to me at all.

A lot of people at DC got to where they are by knowing the right people. Tynion is Snyder's understudy. We can thank Bob Harras for bringing in Ann Nocenti and Scott Lobdell. And don't even get started on Eddie Berganza is a group editor. But even some of the good writers got in that way. Former editor Mike Marts was the one who called in Tim Seeley.

[Nite-Wing]

No one here is clamouring for Damian to star in Snyder's Batman,the sentiment here actually goes otherwise.
People are blaming Snyder because on one hand he claims he cant write Robin as he makes him uncomfortable but on the other hand his 2 pet characters are both kids and both are getting events. He must've grown up watching the Schumacher movies because all Robins have the same features,they all look the same,they all started at 10 years or so.
Damian is prime fodder? fodder gets killed off by successive when their creators leave them,in Damians case it is literally the opposite. Duke and Harper are the real fodder,cant wait to see them go the way of Onyx and Orpheus.

People seem to be mad Snyder isn't using Damian in general which in the end causes other writers to have to use the character. IDK maybe there is some uncomfortable rhetoric being parroted by the Original Robin trio fans who managed to squash promising characters in the past by gate keeping who is allowed to be used and where.
I don't think they'll have as much luck in this current era of comics though

Why is Duke showing up in 2 books? why is he starring in Robin War? isn't he taking space from the other characters?
Why is Harper starring in comics meant to celebrate Batman and Robin? isnt she taking space from far more interesting characters?
Why do Jason Todd and Tim Drake get dragged in to these events especially against the wishes of Jason Todd's own fan base? and even more importantly when the Bat editorial doesn't even have full control over them?
See I can play that card too.

Because new characters need to pushed harder than established characters so that they can become successful as well. Look at Luke Fox
It didn't take long for him to feature in a Batman animated movie although his appearances were limited to Batwing and a side story in Batman Eternal. That's how you use new characters that you want to stick around.

I could care less about Damian in Snyder's Batman, however I wanna see him with Dick and Stephanie, isn't that the purpose of team comics? instead I'm subjected to watching Dick and Steph stuck with a bland,uninteresting character whose just a sum of various traits taken from other characters.

Maybe if the launch a new team book you can get your wish
Right now though Batman and Robin Eternal is all you have for 4 and a 1/2 more months. Enjoy

[darkseidpwns]

It's a celebration event, but it's still also a story that needs to be created by someone. And those someones perhaps just don't know how to incorporate him. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.



A lot of people at DC got to where they are by knowing the right people. Tynion is Snyder's understudy. We can thank Bob Harras for bringing in Ann Nocenti and Scott Lobdell. And don't even get started on Eddie Berganza is a group editor. But even some of the good writers got in that way. Former editor Mike Marts was the one who called in Tim Seeley.

Yeah but none of those guys get to steer the most important ship in DC,I know Tynion is Scott's student but what's Tynion done that DC asks other writers to write his stories? I dont think even Gaiman ever got that treatment.

[darkseidpwns]

People seem to be mad Snyder isn't using Damian in general which in the end causes other writers to have to use the character. IDK maybe there is some uncomfortable rhetoric being parroted by the Original Robin trio fans who managed to squash promising characters in the past by gate keeping who is allowed to be used and where.
I don't think they'll have as much luck in this current era of comics though


Because new characters need to pushed harder than established characters so that they can become successful as well. Look at Luke Fox
It didn't take long for him to feature in a Batman animated movie although his appearances were limited to Batwing and a side story in Batman Eternal. That's how you use new characters that you want to stick around.


Maybe if the launch a new team book you can get your wish
Right now though Batman and Robin Eternal is all you have for 4 and a 1/2 more months. Enjoy

I dont think anyone's mad over Damian not appearing in Batman,if they were you'd have been hearing complaints for years.
What promising characters? both Azraels were pushed,Cass was pushed,Steph was pushed and no Robin fan complained.

New characters should be pushed by their own creators first,here Snyder is dumping his pets on others while he writes the most EPICEST,CRAZIEST,BIGGEST,BESTEST,YOU'LL NEVER SEE IT COMINGIST STORY EVER.

[Aahz]

Why do Jason Todd and Tim Drake get dragged in to these events especially against the wishes of Jason Todd's own fan base? and even more importantly when the Bat editorial doesn't even have full control over them?
See I can play that card too.

I'm not against dragging Jason and Tim in these events, just against putting them in pointless sub plots and not giving them proper showings.

Damian did showed on Batman: the Dark Knight

But (apart from one issue) not assisting Bruce fighting crime. And in this issue he seemed very out of character.

Damian is also not used much outside the Batman franchise, while for Dick and to a lesser extend Jason have apperances as guest stars in other titles.

[joybeans]

Yeah but none of those guys get to steer the most important ship in DC,I know Tynion is Scott's student but what's Tynion done that DC asks other writers to write his stories? I dont think even Gaiman ever got that treatment.

Scott Lobdell wrote Superman. And then you also had Jeff King writing Convergence, the backbone of DC's entire lineup for two months. Tony Daniel did a lot of writing on major Batman titles as well.

[Rac7d*]

He's writing the best selling title at DC so clearly he knows what he is doing
If people want more Damian the blame shouldn't fall solely on Snyder since other writers who write Detective Comics don't feature Damian either.
Fan entitlement is annoying sometimes but with a character like Damian who is prime fodder to be killed off or shelved you would think people would be happy with the current situation.

Is it not enough to have a solo?
Do they have to take up space in Bruce's solo as well?
Seems like the reverse of people wanting all the bat family to have their own space away from Gotham/Batman but in this case Batman shouldn't have his own space away from the family.

Since when does best selling mean great work

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

Duke and Harper are gonna be around as long as Snyder stays on Batman and most of the main Batfam have books. Crossovers are not done like they used to do them where a solo would basically be put on hold for another writers event. Getting mad and attacking Snyder is way to over the top and should be done more respectfully as he does not hate the rest of the Bat family but want to create his own world like Morrison. One thing that is probably certain is that Duke and Harper have built up a good amount of people who have zero interest which does not bode well if Snyder wants them to eventually get their own solo. WAR is already selling equal or less than Red Hood and Arsenal and Harper basically has gotten no real development. Duke may survive the longest.

[Aioros22]

Why do Jason Todd and Tim Drake get dragged in to these events especially against the wishes of Jason Todd's own fan base? and even more importantly when the Bat editorial doesn't even have full control over them? See I can play that card too.

Well, you can. But bottom line is, a writer isn`t pressured in using a character unless it`s mandated to do so. Moreso, how many of Jason`s fanbase are actually against him meeting up ocassionally (like the nature of the crossovers suggest) with the family? Part of the appeal of a "lost son" or black sheep is the fiction old struggle that you can`t really come home again but you can still somehow belong.

Bucky is a wonderful character on his own with a great personal story, but meetings and dealings with "Captain America" are part of the appeal, whether for or against him.

[Claude]

This is more evident with the whole amnesiac Bruce plotline where he completely ignored Bruce's actual sons in the aftermath. Lobdell and King/Seeley did what they could on their own books about it but they still needed to skirt around the issue so they wouldn't step into Snyder's toes, leading to some underwhelming reunions.

You didn't like those reunions, which is fine. I don't think they'd have been better if each of the solo titles had to write around a Snyder-written cameo in the main "Batman" book.

Want to know how Dick reacts? Read Dick's book. What to know how the Bat Family react? Read the book with the Bat Family in it. Snyder does not have the "responsibility to" cripple the support books like by taking the emotional beats of their leads for himself.

Neither the main "Batman" title nor the other characters would benefit from a procession of Guest Stars each reacting to the same thing.

Damian is by far the most affected character and while it would be "fine" if he would be out of gotham all the time until Bruce's recovery (that by itself is a weak plotline) he's being dragged into Gotham by the Robin War crossover, once again forcing to the writers to skirt around the issue.

You haven't read Robin War yet. With that in mind, what did you find unsatisfying about it's handling of the issue?

This argument runs a little hollow when the book meant for the batfamily has one of Snyder's pet characters as lead for no good reason.

The Batfamily book featuring a member of the Bat Family you don't like as much as others doesn't have any effect on the arguement.

[Claude]

Yes but why is Damian, the current Robin, the only one who doesn't fit in this celebration of Robin story of theirs. That doesn't make sense to me. The only sense i can make out of it that they don't want him there, and thats what i find alarming about it.

They're trying to redefine "Robin", it seems - which is.... Actually, something they probably had to do once we got to the fourth.

Basically, as it stands, "Robin" /= "The Thing That Damian Is". Damian is "Son Of Batman" as his USP, and "Robin" is a description that is starting to be used to include Dike, Tim and Jason in the present as well as the past. They are "the Robins", and are running a "Robin School" next month to help a whole bunch of new guys earn that badge.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

They're trying to redefine "Robin", it seems - which is.... Actually, something they probably had to do once we got to the fourth.

Basically, as it stands, "Robin" /= "The Thing That Damian Is". Damian is "Son Of Batman" as his USP, and "Robin" is a description that is starting to be used to include Dike, Tim and Jason in the present as well as the past. They are "the Robins", and are running a "Robin School" next month to help a whole bunch of new guys earn that badge.

Why though? The Robin mantle is Bruce's right to give. Not Dick's nor Jason's nor Tim's. And Tynion actually agrees since Harper's arc on BRE is that she's mad that Bruce died before giving her the chance of being a Robin. Damian had to bust his ass to earn the right. What have done the WAR kids to earn that right?

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

It is actually Dicks right to give the mantle and it was respected that way for Jason in Pre-Crisis received blessing and the uniform from Dick and then Tim was sent to train with him after begging him to return, but somewhere a long the live in the 90's it became all Bruce before DickBats era respected his time but with the previews for the Robin War it is moving right back into Dick's hand.

[Claude]

Why though? The Robin mantle is Bruce's right to give. Not Dick's nor Jason's nor Tim's. And Tynion actually agrees since Harper's arc on BRE is that she's mad that Bruce died before giving her the chance of being a Robin. Damian had to bust his ass to earn the right.

And it was Dick who made Damian Robin. Again, when Bruce's Batman wasn't around - they aren't training Parallel Robins to battle like Pokemon, why shouldn't Dick take this role when there's noone else?

What have done the WAR kids to earn that right?

...again, we'll have to read the story to know what happens in it.