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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by colonyofcells View Post
    There does seem to still exist some customers from pre flashpoint who are not happy with the current age (mostly fans of pre flashpoint Wally West maybe).
    I'm happy with both the Pre-FP & the current stuff. I guess I'll be that gray area lol.

  2. #47
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver Matthew Logan1962 View Post
    Who's your favorite character? And why? I want to assess your answers to better assess my answers to the question.
    Lets see...
    Pre-Flashpoint... Sandman (Golden Age), Dr. Fate (all but Fate), Blue Beetle (Ted), Booster Gold, Fire, Ice, Guy Gardner (all but Warrior), Huntress (Wayne & Bertinelli), Power Girl, Vixen, Nightwing, Adam Strange (after Planet Heist), Hawkman, Tim Hunter, Catwoman (by Brubaker), various Legion (Levitz & DnA) members, Blackjak (Atari Force), Arion (blue suit/long hair era), Obsidian, Jade, Shade the Changing Man (by Milligan -actually more Kathy and Lenny), Crimson Fox, Zatanna (in JLDetroit, Tim Hunter, Swamp Thing and Seven Soldiers), Swamp Thing, Traci 13 (during Flashpoint), Nocturna.
    Post-Flashpoint... Grayson, Huntress (up til Worlds Finest), Batgirl (after 35), Black Canary (after Batgirl), Starling (when she first appeared), Zatanna, Madame Xanadu. Post-Flashpoint's been kinda rough as not a lot since 2011 has really resonated with me, aside from Grayson, Batgirl, Omega Men, early Birds of Prey and early JLDark.

    It's probably easier to list characters that I don't like...
    Stargirl, Damien and Harley Quinn are the top three.

    However, I tend to like concepts and themes over characters.
    A good mystical or existential comic will win me over regardless of the character, as will a good space opera or pulp-ish mystery-man yarn.
    I know characters are interpreted differently by different writers, so, for instance, Zatanna by Moore, Milligan or Morrison will interest me a whole lot more than her by anyone else.
    Last edited by Lee Stone; 11-20-2015 at 10:53 PM.
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  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjak View Post
    I've grown tired of older fans telling me that I'm not a true fan of something, because I like the rebooted version of a character. Fans like that are a problem on here.
    Okay, I think I get it.

    And, forgive my interpreting, I don't think your real problem is with people who "live in a distant past that comics publishers don't care about." It's with people who are rude and dismissive with you because your tastes don't agree with their, and say you're "not a real fan" because of it.

    And I think you're right to find those people annoying. And you should call them out on it - not on their interest in the past, but on their meanness to people who don't happen to share it.

    I hope you understand, though, that your original post seemed much the same - like a rude and dismissive sneer (in a passive-aggressive way, since you phrased it as question) directed at people who have tastes different from yours. You didn't give us any context, you didn't mention that those people had been rude to you - you just sort of sneered at them for their interests.

    There are, unfortunately, a lot of people in the internet who will be rude to you because you don't have the "right" tastes. On comic book boards, some of these people will be old-timers with a strong interest in the past, but there will be others too. And let me tell you with absolute certainty: there are people who "live in a distant past that comics publishers don't care about" who won't deride you just because you don't share their interests. But you're a lot less likely to notice those people. (Not "you" in particular - most people notice people who are mean to them more than they notice people who simply disagree, or who don't comment on your posts.)

    I am, as I said, a continuity fan (which is like being a fan of a rock band that broke up 30 years ago, these days), and I cannot tell you how often I, and people like me, have been described - on comic-book discussion boards; on this one - as "30-year-old obsessive-compulsive virgins who live in their mothers' basements, whine constantly about whether the Golden Age green Lantern wore his ring on the right hand or the left, and are the worst fanboys to ever afflict this community." In fact, I've seen versions of that in just the last couple of days. (Very few of those phrases actually apply to me. My husband and I live in our own house, and we don't have a basement.)

    And I suspect I find those people as annoying as you find the people who tell you that you're "not a real fan" because you don't share their interest in the past. But here's the thing: I am not annoyed in the same way by people who simply don't have much interest in continuity. They just have different tastes than me, and I raise no objection to that, as long as they don't attack me for it. Which some, but not all, of them do.

    (Of course, I'll admit that I am sometimes disappointed in the fact that there aren't more continuity fans, because it means I'm not getting the stories that I want. And I'm perfectly willing to argue in favor of continuity, and try to convince people to see the value in it. But I try not to be rude and dismissive to those who disagree.)

    I will say: yes, you're not interested in the "distant past" of comic books, and you're entitled. But you shouldn't make assumptions about the publishers (or the writers and editors). They may have their own opinions. And to the poster who said "and 90% of the comic-book readers don't care either" - well, I haven't seen the evidence for that statistic.

    (And then, just so I'm not leaving a confusion in place concerning my opinion, I'll also mention this: I think there are a lot of readers who are "interested in the past," but not "interested in continuity." Those are two different things, although they overlap. Titans Hunt appeals to an interest in the past, but not to "continuity," as it is usually understood.)

    Be well.
    Last edited by Doctor Bifrost; 11-20-2015 at 11:40 PM.
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    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  4. #49
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    I don't have any problems with the past. I've always embraced it, but not in a nostalgic kind of way. If that makes sense. And about continuity, I can see why it's important for some people and I totally respect that. But for me, story has always trumped continuity for me. I could just make sense of everything else down the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    Okay, I think I get it.

    And, forgive my interpreting, I don't think your real problem is with people who "live in a distant past that comics publishers don't care about." It's with people who are rude and dismissive with you because your tastes don't agree with their, and say you're "not a real fan" because of it.

    And I think you're right to find those people annoying. And you should call them out on it - not on their interest in the past, but on their meanness to people who don't happen to share it.

    I hope you understand, though, that your original post seemed much the same - like a rude and dismissive sneer (in a passive-aggressive way, since you phrased it as question) directed at people who have tastes different from yours. You didn't give us any context, you didn't mention that those people had been rude to you - you just sort of sneered at them for their interests.

    There are, unfortunately, a lot of people in the internet who will be rude to you because you don't have the "right" tastes. On comic book boards, some of these people will be old-timers with a strong interest in the past, but there will be others too. And let me tell you with absolute certainty: there are people who "live in a distant past that comics publishers don't care about" who won't deride you just because you don't share their interests. But you're a lot less likely to notice those people. (Not "you" in particular - most people notice people who are mean to them more than they notice people who simply disagree, or who don't comment on your posts.)

    I am, as I said, a continuity fan (which is like being a fan of a rock band that broke up 30 years ago, these days), and I cannot tell you how often I, and people like me, have been described - on comic-book discussion boards; on this one - as "30-year-old obsessive-compulsive virgins who live in their mothers' basements, whine constantly about whether the Golden Age green Lantern wore his ring on the right hand or the left, and are the worst fanboys to ever afflict this community." In fact, I've seen versions of that in just the last couple of days. (Very few of those phrases actually apply to me. My husband and I live in our own house, and we don't have a basement.)

    And I suspect I find those people as annoying as you find the people who tell you that you're "not a real fan" because you don't share their interest in the past. But here's the thing: I am not annoyed in the same way by people who simply don't have much interest in continuity. They just have different tastes than me, and I raise no objection to that, as long as they don't attack me for it. Which some, but not all, of them do.

    (Of course, I'll admit that I am sometimes disappointed in the fact that there aren't more continuity fans, because it means I'm not getting the stories that I want. And I'm perfectly willing to argue in favor of continuity, and try to convince people to see the value in it. But I try not to be rude and dismissive to those who disagree.)

    I will say: yes, you're not interested in the "distant past" of comic books, and you're entitled. But you shouldn't make assumptions about the publishers (or the writers and editors). They may have their own opinions. And to the poster who said "and 90% of the comic-book readers don't care either" - well, I haven't seen the evidence for that statistic.

    (And then, just so I'm not leaving a confusion in place concerning my opinion, I'll also mention this: I think there are a lot of readers who are "interested in the past," but not "interested in continuity." Those are two different things, although they overlap. Titans Hunt appeals to an interest in the past, but not to "continuity," as it is usually understood.)

    Be well.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post

    I will say: yes, you're not interested in the "distant past" of comic books, and you're entitled. But you shouldn't make assumptions about the publishers (or the writers and editors). They may have their own opinions. And to the poster who said "and 90% of the comic-book readers don't care either" - well, I haven't seen the evidence for that statistic. .
    Quick clarification, because this post could be read a couple ways... but Ninjak was not the Original Poster. He just stated something in a way that I hoped to get some clarification on, and got pushed into the spotlight.


    And now back to our regularly scheduled conversation

  6. #51
    long time member Herowatcher's Avatar
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    I'm I missing something here?....wouldn't the past still be new to new readers?....wouldn't they like the Pre-Flashpoint universe? Had DC just used Flashpoint to clean up continuity and kept the old universe wouldn't DC still have new readers?
    "History of the DC Universe" by Wolfman and Perez, when the DCU use to make sense.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member Old Man Ollie 1962's Avatar
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    Man, I just eat this stuff up with a spoon. lol I especially love the rationale that you can be a fan of the past but not, like, in a nostalgic way. Brilliant.

  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Quick clarification, because this post could be read a couple ways... but Ninjak was not the Original Poster. He just stated something in a way that I hoped to get some clarification on, and got pushed into the spotlight.


    And now back to our regularly scheduled conversation
    Ah. Sorry all around on that one.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver Matthew Logan1962 View Post
    Man, I just eat this stuff up with a spoon. lol I especially love the rationale that you can be a fan of the past but not, like, in a nostalgic way. Brilliant.
    Ah, it's you again.....unfortunately. If you disagree, then say so. No need to be a smart ass.

  10. #55
    Incredible Member steeplejack2112's Avatar
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    It's comics. It's up to the fans to determine what they enjoy on an individual basis. I truly feel that there are a lot of individuals here who like to overthink things. Take a step back and just enjoy the ride.

  11. #56
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    Every time I see the initials "COIE" in a post, I stop reading.

    Which means that there are a lot of posts that I don't finish.

  12. #57
    Extraordinary Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    Every time I see the initials "COIE" in a post, I stop reading.
    People should never talk about comics, especially not here. It's just gauche.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver Matthew Logan1962 View Post
    Man, I just eat this stuff up with a spoon. lol I especially love the rationale that you can be a fan of the past but not, like, in a nostalgic way. Brilliant.
    I wonder if they just mean it differently, than you're taking it.

    I mean, I like Janis Joplin, but she was dead before I was alive. I'm not nostalgic for Pearl, I just think it's a really, really good album.

    I fell in love with Mabel Cheung's An Autumn's Tale more than ten years after it came out, and I'm nostalgic for it now, but I still enjoyed that past-thing when I discovered it without being nostalgic for the era or original release.

    I've never been a buy-this-month's-comics person. Most of the comics I get are rereleases or back issues. There may be an element of nostalgia with some of those, but since many of them are from before my time, not too much, and hopefully it's rarely the overwhelming reason I'm enjoying something. It's just that the past is our collection of achievements. The past produced some good stuff, some of which is still good.

    And, then there's stuff like

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    A clear demonstration of this is Titans Hunt. The story (as seen so far, and intimated further) in no way follows naturally from the characters as they have been introduced in The New 52. Instead, it seems to be an editorially-dictated appeal to nostalgia: "We're getting the old gang (you remember the old gang) back together!" The fact that these are actually new characters, who do not have the backstories that made the old gang getting together make sense, is apparently not important. What's important is to create something that reminds readers of the old days, when they loved these characters. And then fill each issue with Easter eggs leading readers to say, "I remember that!" Pure nostalgia, with the plot (which may turn out to be very good, or very bad, I don't know) layered on top of it.
    Or, much of Infinite Crisis, the shots in Onslaught of Cap waxing nostalgic on the page as heroes rush beside him, but since they couldn't get the original Human Torch in there, who he fought beside, they use Johnny Storm, who Cap is unlikely to be that nostalgic over, to trigger a feeling in the reader. Jarvis saying his favorite Avengers moment is the day he had a mansion dropped on him and was beaten and tortured nearly to death by supervillains, because, well, the "story" needs that old story namechecked.
    Patsy Walker on TV! Patsy Walker in new comics! Patsy Walker in your brain! And Jessica Jones is the new Nancy! (Oh, and read the Comics Cube.)

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    Every time I see the initials "COIE" in a post, I stop reading.

    Which means that there are a lot of posts that I don't finish.
    That says more about you then anyone who mentions COIE.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herowatcher View Post
    I'm I missing something here?....wouldn't the past still be new to new readers?
    Mind. Blown.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver Matthew Logan1962 View Post
    Man, I just eat this stuff up with a spoon. lol I especially love the rationale that you can be a fan of the past but not, like, in a nostalgic way. Brilliant.
    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    I wonder if they just mean it differently, than you're taking it.
    I think nostalgia gets used a bit loosely, but the main use of the word involves a longing to return to something in some way, something from one's past. I would think this would happen to most people in some degree, at least in the sense that seeing something symbolic of the past might make them think for even a moment "I remember that fondly, it would be nice to see more of that." However, when talking about living in the past, I think we can reserve the term for the stronger desire shown by people who let nostalgia get in the way of enjoying new stuff, who seem convinced that comics were better and that they would be much better today if they were more like the comics of old (and sometimes I fall into this category.)

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