Let's go living in the past

[MajorHoy]

That doesn't make me any less of a fan. I'm not trying to earn a spot at the cool kids table. I just love comics, that's all.

Oh, I wasn't challenging how much you care for comic books past or present. It's just you started by sounding older than you actually wound up being (at least from my standpoint, since I had already gave up regularly reading comic books back in 1995 but then resumed the habit more steadily again towards the start of 2011). So it comes down to perspective sometimes as to "old" and "how long".

There does seem to still exist some customers from pre flashpoint who are not happy with the current age (mostly fans of pre flashpoint Wally West maybe).

Still haven't figured out how many of those people actually exist, though they do tend to be quite . . . vocal.

[Lee Stone]

People should never talk about comics, especially not here. It's just gauche.



I wonder if they just mean it differently, than you're taking it.

I mean, I like Janis Joplin, but she was dead before I was alive. I'm not nostalgic for Pearl, I just think it's a really, really good album.

I fell in love with Mabel Cheung's An Autumn's Tale more than ten years after it came out, and I'm nostalgic for it now, but I still enjoyed that past-thing when I discovered it without being nostalgic for the era or original release.

I've never been a buy-this-month's-comics person. Most of the comics I get are rereleases or back issues. There may be an element of nostalgia with some of those, but since many of them are from before my time, not too much, and hopefully it's rarely the overwhelming reason I'm enjoying something. It's just that the past is our collection of achievements. The past produced some good stuff, some of which is still good.

And, then there's stuff like



Or, much of Infinite Crisis, the shots in Onslaught of Cap waxing nostalgic on the page as heroes rush beside him, but since they couldn't get the original Human Torch in there, who he fought beside, they use Johnny Storm, who Cap is unlikely to be that nostalgic over, to trigger a feeling in the reader. Jarvis saying his favorite Avengers moment is the day he had a mansion dropped on him and was beaten and tortured nearly to death by supervillains, because, well, the "story" needs that old story namechecked.

COIE.

I totally agree.
I wasn't around during the '40s, '50s and '60s but I still love music from those times, especially Billie Holiday, Dinah Washington, Nina Simone (who I originally discovered through the first La Femme Nikita TV series), Sarah Vaughan, Ella Fitzgerald, Julie London, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, the Andrews Sisters, Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, Rosemary Clooney and Nat King Cole,

I love the film noir style, which arguably ended before I was born.

I love Art Deco and Old Hollywood Glamour.

I think Top Hats, Vests and Gloves need to make a comeback.
I'd probably buy an Apple Watch, just to put it on a chain like a pocketwatch.
I love reading books from the 19th Century, even though I was born about a hundred years later.

I think Alfred Hitchcock is one of the best directors of all time.
I also think Rod Serling was one of the most creative plot writers of all time.

My favorite movie of all time came out in 1982, but I never saw it until the early '90s when a friend made me watch it.
It's Blade Runner, btw.

And what's interesting is that most of these things I like were introduced to me by more modern people either paying homage or building from their works.

The '90s Swing Revival with Brian Setzer, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Cherry Poppin' Daddies, Royal Crown Revue and Squirrel Nut Zippers (even though they refused to be classified as such) got me into classic Swing.
SomaFM's Secret Agent radio and Eighteenth Street Lounge Recods (specifically Thievery Corporation) got me into downtempo, which led me to get the Verve Remixed albums, which in turn led me to listen to the originals.
Lenny Kravitz's attempts to use a 1960's styled studio led me to listen to the Doors, Jimi Hendrix and Led Zeppelin.
The internet, itself, led me to read and watch more cyberpunk in the '90s than I ever knew existed in the '80s.
Natalie Cole made me fall in love with her father's music with Unforgettable.
The Ultra-Lounge cds got me into Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Exotica and Crime Jazz, which only got amplified by listening to the Retro Cocktail Hour and Martini in the Morning online.
I love the Universal Horror Films and '50s/'60s B-Movies, which is due more to Scooby Doo, Elvira and Halloween than to actually "being there" when they were originally released.
Moonlighting, the tv show from the '80s, introduced me to the screwball comedies of Golden Age Hollywood.
I love reading Golden Age and Silver Age comics, even though I didn't start reading comics, myself, until well into the Bronze Age.

And sometimes it's the differences, or stark contrasts, of the older stuff and modern material that will make me enjoy the classics more.
Maybe I don't want to listen to today's bubblegum pop. Doesn't mean I'm gonna just listen to '80s or '90s music, though, even if that is from "my time". Sometimes I just go backwards instead of forwards.
Or maybe I just grow tired of seeing heads exploding, blood everywhere or hearing/reading gutter language.
Sometimes I want witty dialogue and sophisticated storytelling, both of which are more abundant the further back you go.

I still occasionally listen to The Cure, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Tori Amos, Depeche Mode and the Smiths, but I also listen to artists who have been inspired by them, such as The XX, the Yeah, Yeah, Yeahs, Florence and the Machine and Lana Del Rey (which in her own way has got me more into Chris Isaak, Roy Orbison and the Dire Straits).
I even introduced a friend to The Cure by mixing in songs of theirs with more of those later artists I mentioned. She ended up loving them and thought they were a new band.

There is no expiration date on artistic creations, whether art, books, film, music, or even comic.
Just different tastes.
And, it may be a shock, but your tastes can change.
There may be something that right now you would never imagine you'd like to read or listen to.
But many years from now, a new creator may come out that just strikes your fancy. And they loved that style so much that it spills into their work.
And before you know it, you're discovering that you now like whatever it was that you long ago dismissed.
That's just how things go.

[Lee Stone]

I think nostalgia gets used a bit loosely, but the main use of the word involves a longing to return to something in some way, something from one's past. I would think this would happen to most people in some degree, at least in the sense that seeing something symbolic of the past might make them think for even a moment "I remember that fondly, it would be nice to see more of that." However, when talking about living in the past, I think we can reserve the term for the stronger desire shown by people who let nostalgia get in the way of enjoying new stuff, who seem convinced that comics were better and that they would be much better today if they were more like the comics of old (and sometimes I fall into this category.)

COIE.

I don't necessarily think comics of old were better.
I just think there's things we can still learn from them.
No need to re-invent the wheel.

If you read a Golden Age or Silver Age comic, or even a Bronze Age comic, and enjoy it better than some stuff out today, it usually won't be the whole comic that you think is better. But rather parts of it. Such as the style of storytelling, the approach the writer or artist used, the dialogue or the use of shadows or color.
These are things that can be explored and built upon with newer comics.
And usually is where new creators draw their inspiration from.
Most creators are driven to either explore and amplify the styles of works they've personally loved or to rebel against the current trends that they don't like.

[colonyofcells]

I enjoy looking at the past altho the current ideas seem better.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...5397a43856.jpg

[BatfanReborn]

I actually think it's pretty difficult for anyone to claim that DC doesn't care about its past given the amount of reference to and reverence for it DC shows.

[colonyofcells]

The current comics don't have the world war 2 history of Wonder Woman altho the WW movie seems to be drawing more inspiration from the WW tv show whose first season was set in World War 2 which in turn was inspired by the golden age WW.

[MajorHoy]

The current comics don't have the world war 2 history of Wonder Woman altho the WW movie seems to be drawing more inspiration from the WW tv show whose first season was set in World War 2 which in turn was inspired by the golden age WW.

Maybe that would give DC a reason to throw together a tpb or two collecting Wonder Woman #228 - 243 and the Wonder Woman stories from World's Finest Comics #244 - #250?







That was a great run!

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

Ah, it's you again.....unfortunately. If you disagree, then say so. No need to be a smart ass.

Uh-huh. It's you again. "I don't have any problems with the past. I've always embraced it, but not in a nostalgic kind of way. If that makes sense" Makes absolutely no sense. And you wonder why I dropped you in the facetious trick bag.

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

Lets see...
Pre-Flashpoint... Sandman (Golden Age), Dr. Fate (all but Fate), Blue Beetle (Ted), Booster Gold, Fire, Ice, Guy Gardner (all but Warrior), Huntress (Wayne & Bertinelli), Power Girl, Vixen, Nightwing, Adam Strange (after Planet Heist), Hawkman, Tim Hunter, Catwoman (by Brubaker), various Legion (Levitz & DnA) members, Blackjak (Atari Force), Arion (blue suit/long hair era), Obsidian, Jade, Shade the Changing Man (by Milligan -actually more Kathy and Lenny), Crimson Fox, Zatanna (in JLDetroit, Tim Hunter, Swamp Thing and Seven Soldiers), Swamp Thing, Traci 13 (during Flashpoint), Nocturna.
Post-Flashpoint... Grayson, Huntress (up til Worlds Finest), Batgirl (after 35), Black Canary (after Batgirl), Starling (when she first appeared), Zatanna, Madame Xanadu. Post-Flashpoint's been kinda rough as not a lot since 2011 has really resonated with me, aside from Grayson, Batgirl, Omega Men, early Birds of Prey and early JLDark.

It's probably easier to list characters that I don't like...
Stargirl, Damien and Harley Quinn are the top three.

However, I tend to like concepts and themes over characters.
A good mystical or existential comic will win me over regardless of the character, as will a good space opera or pulp-ish mystery-man yarn.
I know characters are interpreted differently by different writers, so, for instance, Zatanna by Moore, Milligan or Morrison will interest me a whole lot more than her by anyone else.

For me, and I suspect for numerous folks, it's all about the character first and foremost. There's an affinity for a certain character. Why? Some intrinsic personality traits that serve as a catalyst, launching the protagonist into the fictional world they live. Take Bruce Wayne/Batman for example. His personality is perfectly acclimated for Gotham city. Now, Bats may gain new insights, perspectives, and formulate new opinions about various circumstances and situations--and people--but his inherent personality traits remain indelible. Look at the drive and motivation it took for Bruce Wayne to become Batman. Look at his purview of knowledge. Batman's most intrinsic character trait is tenacity. Relentlessness if you will. Without it, he could not have mastered all of the disciplines required to effect change/rid Gotham of its criminal element.

[Lee Stone]

For me, and I suspect for numerous folks, it's all about the character first and foremost. There's an affinity for a certain character. Why? Some intrinsic personality traits that serve as a catalyst, launching the protagonist into the fictional world they live. Take Bruce Wayne/Batman for example. His personality is perfectly acclimated for Gotham city. Now, Bats may gain new insights, perspectives, and formulate new opinions about various circumstances and situations--and people--but his inherent personality traits remain indelible. Look at the drive and motivation it took for Bruce Wayne to become Batman. Look at his purview of knowledge. Batman's most intrinsic character trait is tenacity. Relentlessness if you will. Without it, he could not have mastered all of the disciplines required to effect change/rid Gotham of its criminal element.

At one time, I used to be all about characters.
Iron Fist, Moon Knight, Daredevil, Doctor Strange, Nightwing, Zatanna, even Batman in my early days of reading.

And then I discovered that writers had different voices and sometimes those voices conflicted with previous interpretations.

For instance, I loved Giffen & DeMatteis' JLI pre-92. And as a result, Beetle, Booster, Fire & Ice became my favorite characters of that time. But when Jurgens took over, they no longer sounded "right". Even though I liked Jurgens' Booster Gold prior to JLI (and he created the character), the characters seemed to have lost their personalities.

Iron Fist was one of my favorite characters at Marvel but I won't bother reading anything with him now because it's not Mary Jo Duffy's voice.

I loved the New Mutants during the Sienkiewicz run. But when he was gone, so was I. Being killed by the Beyonder just helped give me a jump-off point.

I tried reading Strazynski's Dr. Strange and found the character devoid of the personality he had under Stern, Gillis and Thomas. As a result, I no longer get excited about the character. I'll try out a new series by a new creator, like Aaron, but I don't feel obligated to stick with it. Dr. Strange "died" in 1996 as far as I'm concerned.

So I've learned not to get invested in characters.
I actually get more excited by the combination of certain characters, or types of characters, and certain creators.

Any character under Bendis, for example, has a 90% chance of sounding like a typical character by Bendis.
Just like any character written by Morrison will undoubtedly sound like a typical Morrison character.
Same with Frank Miller.

Granted, there are still certain characters I'd prefer by certain creators.
I'd read Dr. Fate by Morrison or Milligan but I probably wouldn't bother with it if it was written by, say, Rucka or Bendis.

But then, I'd read Checkmate by Rucka or King but I wouldn't be too interested if it was written by Milligan or Morrison.

I may really like the Levitz and DnA Legions but that doesn't mean I'll flock to just any Legion book DC puts out.
It also doesn't mean I won't at least give it a chance, if it looks interesting.

If a comic I love changes direction and no longer feels the same, I'm not going to "tough it out" for the sake of the characters. I'll just drop it.
I know stuff gets rebooted or relaunched enough that one day a different interpretation may come along that will appeal to me.
And if not, well... it was fun while it lasted.

But I do understand that there are people who are fans of 'characters', just like there are people who are fans of creators and even companies.
So I don't disrespect their preferences.
Like I said earlier, I started out that way, myself.
Different people have different tastes and different reasons to buy, read or collect.

Some people seek out every appearance of a character and will buy it no matter what.
Some people will follow a specific writer or artist no matter what they do, or where.
Some people will only buy and read DC or Marvel, and then some of those will only bother with what they consider the "core" books.
Nothing wrong with any of that.

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

At one time, I used to be all about characters.
Iron Fist, Moon Knight, Daredevil, Doctor Strange, Nightwing, Zatanna, even Batman in my early days of reading.

And then I discovered that writers had different voices and sometimes those voices conflicted with previous interpretations.

For instance, I loved Giffen & DeMatteis' JLI pre-92. And as a result, Beetle, Booster, Fire & Ice became my favorite characters of that time. But when Jurgens took over, they no longer sounded "right". Even though I liked Jurgens' Booster Gold prior to JLI (and he created the character), the characters seemed to have lost their personalities.

Iron Fist was one of my favorite characters at Marvel but I won't bother reading anything with him now because it's not Mary Jo Duffy's voice.

I loved the New Mutants during the Sienkiewicz run. But when he was gone, so was I. Being killed by the Beyonder just helped give me a jump-off point.

I tried reading Strazynski's Dr. Strange and found the character devoid of the personality he had under Stern, Gillis and Thomas. As a result, I no longer get excited about the character. I'll try out a new series by a new creator, like Aaron, but I don't feel obligated to stick with it. Dr. Strange "died" in 1996 as far as I'm concerned.

So I've learned not to get invested in characters.
I actually get more excited by the combination of certain characters, or types of characters, and certain creators.

Any character under Bendis, for example, has a 90% chance of sounding like a typical character by Bendis.
Just like any character written by Morrison will undoubtedly sound like a typical Morrison character.
Same with Frank Miller.

Granted, there are still certain characters I'd prefer by certain creators.
I'd read Dr. Fate by Morrison or Milligan but I probably wouldn't bother with it if it was written by, say, Rucka or Bendis.

But then, I'd read Checkmate by Rucka or King but I wouldn't be too interested if it was written by Milligan or Morrison.

I may really like the Levitz and DnA Legions but that doesn't mean I'll flock to just any Legion book DC puts out.
It also doesn't mean I won't at least give it a chance, if it looks interesting.

If a comic I love changes direction and no longer feels the same, I'm not going to "tough it out" for the sake of the characters. I'll just drop it.
I know stuff gets rebooted or relaunched enough that one day a different interpretation may come along that will appeal to me.
And if not, well... it was fun while it lasted.

But I do understand that there are people who are fans of 'characters', just like there are people who are fans of creators and even companies.
So I don't disrespect their preferences.
Like I said earlier, I started out that way, myself.
Different people have different tastes and different reasons to buy, read or collect.

Some people seek out every appearance of a character and will buy it no matter what.
Some people will follow a specific writer or artist no matter what they do, or where.
Some people will only buy and read DC or Marvel, and then some of those will only bother with what they consider the "core" books.
Nothing wrong with any of that.

At least you grasp the concept of innate character traits. Every great character in literature--and comics--is imbued with some sort of congenital character trait or traits. From Batman to Beowulf, Captain Ahab to Spiderman, Sherlock Holmes to Superman. It's an integral part of characterization. And I take issue with so-called fans who dismiss so vital a component as "nostalgic." Man, that's either profound ignorance or arrogance.

[Starchild]

But I do understand that there are people who are fans of 'characters', just like there are people who are fans of creators and even companies.
So I don't disrespect their preferences.
Like I said earlier, I started out that way, myself.
Different people have different tastes and different reasons to buy, read or collect.

I can't tell you how much I agree with this. The fandom would be slightly a little better if we kept this in mind, instead of attacking only another.

[The Darknight Detective]

Guys, enough with the arguing.

As much as I love this hobby, we're only talking about fictional characters. They're not worth raising your blood pressure one point over.

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

Guys, enough with the arguing.

As much as I love this hobby, we're only talking about fictional characters. They're not worth raising your blood pressure one point over.

I stand corrected. My apologies.

[superduperman]

Everyone grew up with a particular version of their favorite character. Whether it be from the comics, a cartoon, or TV show. We all see that version as the "real" version. And more often than not, that "real" version is never restored as the "official" version. And yes, fans can get a little intense when it comes to arguing which one is the "real" version. My Superman is the Ruby Spears cartoon from over 25 years ago, my Batman is the animated series, and my Green Arrow is the Arrow TV show. Now, good luck fitting all those versions into one universe!