Teen Titans and other Legacy Characters. What to do about them?

[Doctor Know]

So I was rereading the final arc of TT vol 3, and I came across this image.



Aquagirl - Lorena
Argent
Blue Beetle - Jamie Reyes
Bombshell
Bumblebee
Flamebird
Hot Spot
Mirage
Miss Martian
Offspring
Prysm
Red Star
Robin - Damian Wayne
Speedy - Mia Dearden
Supergirl - Kara Zor-El
Vox
Zatara - Zachary (cousin of Zatanna)

Plus the main members of this era.


Beast Boy
Kid Flash - Bart Allen
Ravager V - Rose Wilson
Raven
Red Robin - Tim Drake
Solstice
Superboy - Conner Kent
Wonder Girl - Cassandra Sandsmark



What I noticed, and have known for a long time, is that there are a lot of legacy/copy cat characters running around. Not only with similar powers and skills but also (with respect to the Robins, Arrows, Flashes and Wonder Girls) wearing the same costumes as their predecessors. Before New 52 TT came along with their Tron Legacy inspired costumes, most of the vol 3's main cast wore nearly identical cloths as the NTT cast and had the same set of powers as the NTT cast.




Then you have things like the 4 bow and arrow Titans/YJ members: Roy Harper(Speedy/Arsenal/Red Arrow), Mia Dearden (Speedy 2nd), Artemis Crock (Artemis, not the be confused with either the goddess or Amazon), Suzanne King-Jones (Arrowette).


I know legacies are going to exist, but just looking at the Titans and comparing them to the rosters of the JLA, LOSH and JSA, there doesn't seem to be much variety. That and the power set (main stay rosters) seems to be a constant reuse of the same abilities or someone with something similar. E.g. substituting Superboy for Starfire.


What should be done to either decrease the number of legacies or make them different enough from their predecessors?

[Bor]

So I was rereading the final arc of TT vol 3, and I came across this image.



Aquagirl - Lorena
Argent
Blue Beetle - Jamie Reyes
Bombshell
Bumblebee
Flamebird
Hot Spot
Mirage
Miss Martian
Offspring
Prysm
Red Star
Robin - Damian Wayne
Speedy - Mia Dearden
Supergirl - Kara Zor-El
Vox
Zatara - Zachary (cousin of Zatanna)

Plus the main members of this era.


Beast Boy
Kid Flash - Bart Allen
Ravager V - Rose Wilson
Raven
Red Robin - Tim Drake
Solstice
Superboy - Conner Kent
Wonder Girl - Cassandra Sandsmark



What I noticed, and have known for a long time, is that there are a lot of legacy/copy cat characters running around. Not only with similar powers and skills but also (with respect to the Robins, Arrows, Flashes and Wonder Girls) wearing the same costumes as their predecessors. Before New 52 TT came along with their Tron Legacy inspired costumes, most of the vol 3's main cast wore nearly identical cloths as the NTT cast and had the same set of powers as the NTT cast.




Then you have things like the 4 bow and arrow Titans/YJ members: Roy Harper(Speedy/Arsenal/Red Arrow), Mia Dearden (Speedy 2nd), Artemis Crock (Artemis, not the be confused with either the goddess or Amazon), Suzanne King-Jones (Arrowette).


I know legacies are going to exist, but just looking at the Titans and comparing them to the rosters of the JLA, LOSH and JSA, there doesn't seem to be much variety. That and the power set (main stay rosters) seems to be a constant reuse of the same abilities or someone with something similar. E.g. substituting Superboy for Starfire.


What should be done to either decrease the number of legacies or make them different enough from their predecessors?

Considering how different the team is in the new52 I dont really think the problem is that big anymore. Many of the members from before either do not exist or do not have a connection to the team anymore.

[GlennSimpson]

As far as powers are concerned, there are only so many useful/interesting sets of powers. Add to that the fact that a "legacy" character generally has the same powers as the original, and that at the point they had reached above, there were at least three-four "layers" of legacy.

For me, I don't need so many characters. I loved New Teen Titans back in the day, but now I'm fine with Justice League books. Which is to say, I don't need multiple generations and legacies, I'm fine with the originals (as in whoever the current continuity dictates as being the originals, not that I have to have the JSA).

[Sansomon]

Who cares about Them?

They say that one of the ways to determine the value of a person's lack what it does and the nostalgia we feel that person. At this point I ask: Who cares, gives a damn , or miss the : Anima , Aquagirl (Lorena Marquez ) , Aqualad II (Kaldur'ahm/Jackson Hyde) , Argent , Azrael , Baby Wildebeest , Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes) , Bombshell , Bumblebee , Bushido , Chimera , Hardrock (Ross Richman) , H Dial (Chris King) , Damage , The Phantasm (Danny Chase spirit) , Dove (Dawn Granger) , Dove (Don Hall),Duela Dent , Enigma , Flamebird (Bette Kane) , Fringe , Gnarrk , Golden Eagle , Hawk (Hank Hall) , H Dial II (Hero Cruz), Hawk (Holly Granger),Hot Spot , Jayna , Kid Devil , Kid Eternity , Killowat , Kole , Lagoon Boy , Lightning (Tavis Williams) , Lilith (Lilith Clay) , Little Barda , Mas y Menos , Son of the Fallen , Speedy (Mia Dearden) , Minion , Mirage , Miss Martian , Molecule , Nosferatu , Offspring , Osiris , Pantha , Powerboy ,Prestor Jon (Jonathan Levine), Prysm , Redwing , Risk , Talon , Terra II (Tara Markov) , Tempest (Garth) , Troia (Donna Troy), Atlee , Thunder (Gan Williams), Vox , Vulcan , Young Frankenstein , Zachary Zatara , Zan or all of the Titans who died of the most barbaric ways, brutal and bloodthirsty possible in the hands of Superboy Prime in Infinite Crisis or in all subsequent mega sagas of the DC Universe ? Why all miniseries have to have deaths to be good and valid for these people ? It is not possible to tell a great story without having to kill, maim, blinding, cutting off the limbs of anyone? Who's the most minimal ball to these characters and their absence, remembers the stories with them, remember that these characters once existed and were important ? No one . Everyone remembers the "Death of Superman", everyone remembers "Batman: Knightfall" everyone remembers Barbara Gordon being crippled by the Joker in "Batman: The Killing Joke", everyone remembers the death of Wonder Woman , the death of Green Lantern / Hal Jordan, the death of Green Arrow / Oliver Queen,the death of Supergirl / Kara Zor-El / Linda Danvers, the death of Flash / Barry Allen, but who cares, or the least ball that is, for the deaths, with refinements of cruelty, these characters, all of the Titans. Absolutely no one. Nobody writes a fanfic with a "miraculous resurrection in mass" of all these characters. No one remembers them when they write fan fiction or special episodes of series of cartoons. Nobody cares about the death of these characters nor want them back in comics. Who was in their funeral ceremonies, cried for them, to see them die brutally sacrificed as "dead weights" disposable in the hands of Superboy Prime? It does occurred for a moment that it was the DC Comics sacrifice instead of them the main Titans? Superboy, Red Robin / Tim Drake, Wonder Girl, Troia / Donna Troy, Raven, Cyborg, Starfire, Kid Flash / Bart Allen, Beast Boy , Nightwing / Dick Grayson etc all at once in the same genocide? If they wanted to "shock" the readers with the violence did not you killed the legendary Titans and super-loved instead of the poor fellows forgotten by everyone? Because if they did can bet that there would not mind readers and protest and would fill both the bag of editors that they would have no choice but to bring the characters back (as just bringing Superboy / Conner Kent). Anyway it is regrettable but the fact is that all these characters killed because nobody would miss them. Unfortunately they "kill because they can and ready" and there is no helper.



Everyone cares, league, and worries with Superboy / Kon-El / Conner Kent, with Kid Flash / Bart Allen, with Robin / Tim Drake, with Nightwing / Dick Grayson, with Wonder Girl / Cassie Sandsmark, with Beast Boy , with Raven / Rachel Roth , with Ravager / Rose Wilson and such . But no one absolutely no one cares about the youth superheroes poor in second and third tier that Superboy Prime simply slaughtered. No one thinks of them when writing something think of them at best to make the figuration of the main Teen Titans and then die of pathetic and free way. Everyone cried when Superboy / Kon-El / Conner Kent died, everyone cursed the Rogues Gallery of Flash when they killed Bart Allen everyone demanded that DC Comics reconsiders up the idea of ​​killing Nightwing / Dick Grayson, everyone practically forced the DC to bring Robin / Damian Wayne back from the dead. But what about the humble poor supporting characters of the Titans? Who cares about them? Who's the most minimal ball for all characters that Superboy Prime murdered? No one . No one even remembers them anymore, remember that once existed and had adventures with the main characters. And neither are keen to disguise completely despise these characters. People like me who care would be called sentimental whiners. That's what I meant. Who cares about the Titans forgotten by all who have died the most cruel and unworthy ways also trying to defend his world and his universe only to be delegates to oblivion as if they all were "irrelevant trash" ?

[MajorHoy]

What should be done to either decrease the number of legacies or make them different enough from their predecessors?

[byrd156]

Who cares about Them?

I care about them.

[colonyofcells]

The best use for the old legacy characters is maybe as adult heroes bec teen heroes are not popular.

[Sansomon]

I care about them.

I also care about them ... the point is that apart from us nobody cares about them.

[Sansomon]

The best use for the old legacy characters is maybe as adult heroes bec teen heroes are not popular.

I also think it would be a good solution for these characters makes them heroes adults, but do not believe it is currently in the plans of DC Comics

[DrNewGod]

The Teen Titans, in particular, the sidekicks are the second most serious* problem that DC has in any attempt to allow it's continuity to progress.

Teen/YA hero characters inherently have a coming of age story built into them. If you try to progress the continuity, sooner or later, that means they have to take a bigger role in the world, and most of those brands aren't up to supplanting the extant big stars (Kid Flash is the rare exception, although I've wondered if either Aqualad could pull it off). The alternative is that you have to float your characters through time, keeping the characters pretty much the same while the world around them changes, the way James Bond and Nero Wolf were handled, but that means you're pretty much stuck with a coming of age story that never ends.

Personally, I like option two the best. Keep the continuity relatively loose and float the sidekicks through time at a vaguely defined late stage of adolescence.

*The most serious problem is, of course, Batman. You can't age him beyond a credible athletic prime without dangerously tinkering with the Golden Goose's brand.

[byrd156]

I also think it would be a good solution for these characters makes them heroes adults, but do not believe it is currently in the plans of DC Comics

Honestly, I would rather not have them appear because I know they won't be done well. Hell no one has been done well in the New 52.

[Sansomon]

The Teen Titans, in particular, the sidekicks are the second most serious* problem that DC has in any attempt to allow it's continuity to progress.

Teen/YA hero characters inherently have a coming of age story built into them. If you try to progress the continuity, sooner or later, that means they have to take a bigger role in the world, and most of those brands aren't up to supplanting the extant big stars (Kid Flash is the rare exception, although I've wondered if either Aqualad could pull it off). The alternative is that you have to float your characters through time, keeping the characters pretty much the same while the world around them changes, the way James Bond and Nero Wolf were handled, but that means you're pretty much stuck with a coming of age story that never ends.

Personally, I like option two the best. Keep the continuity relatively loose and float the sidekicks through time at a vaguely defined late stage of adolescence.

*The most serious problem is, of course, Batman. You can't age him beyond a credible athletic prime without dangerously tinkering with the Golden Goose's brand.

I'm not sure I fully agree with this argument.When Alan Moore picked up the Swamp Thing a completely obscure character and considered a supporting character "unpopular" and became one of the most celebrated characters by the public and critics and a key titles Vertigo line he proved that there are no "bad characters" but "bad writers". Similarly when Grant Morrison took the Animal Man a support character virtually forgotten by everyone and deconstructed he in one of the most complex stories ever written using meta language and turning the Animal Man one of the most intriguing and fascinating characters that already existed he has proven that there are characters that can not have its proper value is recognized.

[Sansomon]

Honestly, I would rather not have them appear because I know they won't be done well. Hell no one has been done well in the New 52.

It's just a personal opinion. Particularly I would like that, young heroes heirs, legacies of the DC Universe also grew, matured and they left the shadow of legendary heroes and build their own myths

[GlennSimpson]

I'm not sure I fully agree with this argument.When Alan Moore picked up the Swamp Thing a completely obscure character and considered a supporting character "unpopular" and became one of the most celebrated characters by the public and critics and a key titles Vertigo line he proved that there are no "bad characters" but "bad writers". Similarly when Grant Morrison took the Animal Man a support character virtually forgotten by everyone and deconstructed he in one of the most complex stories ever written using meta language and turning the Animal Man one of the most intriguing and fascinating characters that already existed he has proven that there are characters that can not have its proper value is recognized.

Actually, Moore and Morrison proved that a superlative writer can take a non-superlative character and make something good out of it. However, there are not that many superlative writers. That doesn't mean the rest of the writers are bad, just that they aren't superlative. For an average-to-good writer, there may only be so much they can do with a character as-is.

[Sansomon]

Actually, Moore and Morrison proved that a superlative writer can take a non-superlative character and make something good out of it. However, there are not that many superlative writers. That doesn't mean the rest of the writers are bad, just that they aren't superlative. For an average-to-good writer, there may only be so much they can do with a character as-is.

It's kind of sad to think so because if we really think that way there is not much else you can do with all these characters. Even so I am against this idea that when you exhaust all the possible uses for a character so the only option left is to kill him. Kill so that God? To come a writer and invent a way pretentious, appealing and absurd of these characters return all from the death ? Kill is a waste. If the character is still there, if he is still alive in the universe of the characters, whether he still occupies the same continuity will not miss future uses and future stories in which it can appear.