CBR - Extraordinary X-Men #2 Review

[Tazpocalapse]

I think this was a solid issue. I kinda figured the first arc would be mostly a gathering of the team, a set-up of location and introduction of the tone of the series.Things seem dark and dreary in the X-line now because so far all piecemeal information we have been told is bad things. We still do not know what Cyke did. Many characters still have not been accounted for. We do not know the full extent of the mist threat or the M-pox.Once these things are fleshed out more i think the audience can get more engaged with the current plight of the X-men.

[TheMattLittle]

Hi guys! Just found this thread. Didn't realize there was one! DUH.

First, hello, how are you. Is that shirt new? It looks great.

Second, thank you for reading my review; Eyehearts you.

Some people didn't like the star rating. Wanted to clear something up: I don't really use them. They're just a way to get people to click on the review. They're just self-marketing.

I know, it's gross.

I am just interested in getting a discussion going about comics.

It's rare that I ever HATE a book; I didn't hate this.

I liked some stuff, didn't like some other stuff, and wanted to talk about it.

I loved the ending of Bendis' run. It was more hopeful than the franchise felt in a long time; it felt fresh. I read that right before I read EXM 1 & 2 then wrote. Going from that ending RIGHT back to this same tone disappointed me. I was really feeling that when I wrote this.

None of the characters in this book are out of character and I like that Lemiere's scripts are a better balance of plot/dialogue than Bendis'. Because his dialogue is awesome but entire seasons of television go by as he's telling one story.

I probably made some assumptions about editorial but this is a department driven book right? Like, how do they work on these books? Is Lemiere just a scripter, are the plots broken out by committee, or the editors, or insert other method here in parentheses?

Dark is good; I read The Walking Dead last week and that book is so dark it may as well be printed on black paper. But is that all you want out of the X-Men? This is the franchise book and it tells us what to expect from the line. That's what they told me in all their marketing, and they're cutting off Kurt's tail and dropping teenagers in Limbo and making Colossus walk through poop. I just don't think it's for me.

And that's okay because it is for a lot of you all!

What is everyone HOPING for, now that we have two issues of story? Where do you want to see this go?

And if anyone wants to know what I was thinking when I write a review and I haven't dropped in a thread let me know I wanna talk comics.

[somacula]

Man I'm glad you're here... because for starters yours is the lowest ratings among all sites that have reviewed the issue... and believe it or not it affects the way people look at the comic. Among reviews the rating usually depends whether the reviewer likes the idea of X men as survivors of the extinction (again) or not. But I like to believe that is a representative of how the majority of readers feel about it.

I'd also like to know if the whole terrigen holocaust was lemire's idea ,I believe not since remender was to write the same story but he left, so I think it's mandated by the higher ups since it's also present in uncanny inhumans and uncanny avengers, but none of them are actually suffering from the fallout.

On my part I'm not hoping for a lot, maybe receive a proper closure for Cyclops death since he at least deserves that from all he has done for the X men since decimation. Not people calling him a murderer without him getting a chance to defend himself, that just disgusting and I've decided to read spoilers tag and not support the book because of that, I'm glad Lemire is not writing Cyclops. Lemire seems to believe that somehow Storm happens to be a better leader despite assembling the team after the terrigen holocaust happened, and knowing that Cyclops was trying to do something to prevent it while storm did nothing to stop doesn't really helps to support his claim on storm amazing leadership, just that she sat back and did nothing while Scotty was fighting as he always does, and decides to call him murderer and blame him for everything, while she did nothing...

And i really wanted to said that

[TheMattLittle]

Man I'm glad you're here... because for starters yours is the lowest ratings among all sites that have reviewed the issue... and believe it or not it affects the way people look at the comic.

.....

On my part I'm not hoping for a lot, maybe receive a proper closure for Cyclops death since he at least deserves that from all he has done for the X men since decimation. Not people calling him a murderer without him getting a chance to defend himself, that just disgusting and I've decided to read spoilers tag and not support the book because of that, I'm glad Lemire is not writing Cyclops. Lemire seems to believe that somehow Storm happens to be a better leader despite assembling the team after the terrigen holocaust happened, and knowing that Cyclops was trying to do something to prevent it while storm did nothing to stop doesn't really helps to support his claim on storm amazing leadership, just that she sat back and did nothing while Scotty was fighting as he always does, and decides to call him murderer and blame him for everything, while she did nothing...

And i really wanted to said that

I loved that Cyclops' moment in 600 was taking the biggest step that anyone has towards The Dream in decades. A proactive piece of character work that wasn't about violence.

RE: stars, I'm sorry to hear that. The entire creative team is still fantastic.

Here's a question (and if anyone thinks this should be in a separate thread LMK I don't want to derail the convo here):

What do you guys think of reviews, in general? How do they influence what you buy? Do they? At all? Is there an example of a book that anyone has dropped or ignored because of a review?

I don't think my opinion has that kind of influence over the sales of a book. I'm flattered if that's the case but I don't think it is. Most people in this thread were referring to me as "the reviewer." If people can't even remember my name I'm sure that my opinion slips their mind just as quickly. That's just how people are right? At the very least, if they disagree they open up about what they LOVE about the book, like they did here. And that's awesome because now there has been more positive word about the book (all the reactions) than the critical word (the review). The X-Men are going to be perennial bestsellers. They aren't going anywhere. In fact, the reviews section is a blip on the traffic radar for CBR. I don't think people read them.

I may be wrong about that. I've been wrong before. I once used my roommate's toothbrush. To clean the bathroom.

[Knives]

Hi guys! Just found this thread. Didn't realize there was one! DUH.

First, hello, how are you. Is that shirt new? It looks great.

Second, thank you for reading my review; Eyehearts you.

Some people didn't like the star rating. Wanted to clear something up: I don't really use them. They're just a way to get people to click on the review. They're just self-marketing.

I know, it's gross.

I just want you to know that I am just interested in who wants to talk about a book.

But I read it, liked some stuff, didn't like some other stuff, and wanted to talk about it.

It's rare that I ever HATE a book; I didn't hate this.

I loved the ending of Bendis' run. It was more hopeful than the franchise felt in a long time; it felt fresh. I read that right before I read EXM 1 & 2 then wrote. Going from that ending RIGHT back to this same tone disappointed me. I was really feeling that when I wrote this.

Seriously this is incredible.
I'm dying of laugh.

Reviews by themselves do not make much difference unless the opinion is shared in the same way on multiple sites or by fans. It is like creating a wave that will increases their size
and getting stronger like what happened to the last movie of Fantastic Four.

But this is not the case here what caught the attention of fans is the fact that it was the only one to have given a low score in the ranking.

Well now it all makes sense and believe many agree with you and have good reasons for this. It's not like all they would drop the comic because of your opinions or because of the atmosphere dark but considering that someone in CBR took this into consideration and expressed it ends up resonating among fans who think the same way what just raising the discussion about the direction of the franchise and the return of the theme extinction again.

[Complexed]

Yeah, I'm a little confused how you can just dismiss the "stars" and say "No one looks at them!". Clearly we (the posters in this thread) looked and saw you just gave it one-star indicating you found the issue unfavorable. It seems a little presumptuous be a reviewer of something and then just dismiss that actual component where you score it. If you didn't like it that's fine, but your review just gets caught up on one part of the ongoing narrative and then speaks well of everything else. It doesn't make much sense to give it one star and if anyone who hadn't read the book wanted an opinion they may look at your review and see it ranked lowly. I always read the reviews for the X-Books on this site (and others), but then again, I'm just one poster. I do know, Matt, that if I see your name on any future reviews not to take it seriously as you clearly didn't take this one serious enough to score it.

[Fokken]

Well, Psylocke is getting a ponytail next year.

Ha ha. Yes.
Seriously, No "like" button?
No "Hugz" emojis?
<drags elbow across keyboard--followed by excessive use of the delete button>
You fail me, CBR!

[Complexed]

Some people didn't like the star rating. Wanted to clear something up: I don't really use them. They're just a way to get people to click on the review. They're just self-marketing.

Also, I'm not sure I understand this line at all. You don't use the STAR ratings? But you used it on all your other reviews? Or do those STAR ratings not really equate your thoughts on those comics? Spider-Woman, Drax, Carange, All-New Wolverine, Deadpool and Astonishing Antman all have STAR ratings and reviews from you. Is it just Extraordinary X-Men you didn't feel like using the STAR rating system for?

[TheMattLittle]

Yeah, I'm a little confused how you can just dismiss the "stars" and say "No one looks at them!". Clearly we (the posters in this thread) looked and saw you just gave it one-star indicating you found the issue unfavorable.

Hi Complexed! Thanks so much for taking the time to respond, very cool of you. I appreciate your honesty and in return, I'm going to pull back the curtain a little bit here.

I said no one looks at reviews. I shouldn't have said "no one;" you're right. I meant the majority of the comic book reading public (such that our numbers are) do not live or die off of what I think about a comic book. I made this point above but remember - people here aren't bothered to remember my name when they read something I write. They won't remember my opinion after 24-48 hours. From what we've been told the reviews section does not drive traffic to CBR and ranks very low in their traffic in general. I'm not offended by this! People are busy with lives and concerns of their own. It does make me think I shout into a void sometimes but like the French say Sest La Vye.

It doesn't make much sense to give it one star and if anyone who hadn't read the book wanted an opinion they may look at your review and see it ranked lowly.

I get where you're coming from, but I would like to point something out - you did and still read the book anyhow.

See what I mean? You know what you like. You know what you enjoy. Whether a book is for me or not is going change whether or not it speaks to you.

I'm flattered that anyone reads what I think about a book, I am! It's awesome. BUT, I'm also pragmatic about this.

Can I ask you a question? I'm going to assume you said yes because I couldn't hear you (the radiation didn't give me super hearing like I hoped).

Is it more that you are worried or concerned that me giving it one star will drive people away from the X-Men? Because I can assure you that won't happen. The X-Men are bulletproof. Like, no one at Marvel is going to walk in to Daniel Ketchum or Mark Paniccia's office and go "Did you see what The Reviewer said about Extraordinary X-Men this week? Youuuuuuuuuuuuu'reeeee fired!"

Also, I'm not sure I understand this line at all. You don't use the STAR ratings? But you used it on all your other reviews? Or do those STAR ratings not really equate your thoughts on those comics? Spider-Woman, Drax, Carange, All-New Wolverine, Deadpool and Astonishing Antman all have STAR ratings and reviews from you. Is it just Extraordinary X-Men you didn't feel like using the STAR rating system for?

Right. My critical opinion is in the body of the review itself. I was a little unclear there. Sorry about that. It was late and I was also at the same time trying to watch Dean Ambrose do his lil' bing-bong clothesline thingy to Fight Owens Fight.

Did you ever read any of Roger Ebert's work? He was a movie critic from Chicago who passed away a couple years ago; maybe one of the best writers of what have become referred to as "reviews."

He didn't like the star system, and I agree with him. Here's a link to the post where he discusses this - http://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-jou...too-many-stars

I think if you look at my review style and what I write about (and thank you for looking back on other reviews I've written! That means a lot that you took the time to do that) you'll see that I actually give a lot of high ranking reviews to books. That's because I LOVE comics. And when I don't like them or have an issue that creates a sticking point for me I try to understand why.

Here's what the stars are useful for on this site: getting people to open an article, and getting CBR to promote the piece.

Do you know what the most valuable real estate is on the Reviews page? The top three spaces under the banner "This Week's Highest Rated Comics." If you read a book and rate it 4-5 stars then it's most likely going to wind up there, and more people are going to read your piece about that book. When a book ranks that high, CBR will post about it on Facebook, Twitter, and wherever else they have a social media presence. That then means the piece that reviewer wrote will have more eyes on it, and more discussion surrounding it. Great! More people talking about comics. Everybody wins!

Below that are a series of thumbnails that are small on a desktop, and even smaller on a mobile device because CBR is not designed for mobile. Look at the reviews page on your phone. See how small that all is? No one wants to squint through that. Plus, all the middling-rated reviews bleed together into one. The only thing that pops out is when something is rated low. You clicked on this review to see why the low score and I gave my opinion.

So, what I should have said was: Stars are only for tricking people into reading what I write. I still fully believe that and am unapologetic about it. My goal, as a writer, is to get the most people's eyes on my work.

We have to buy our own books to review from Marvel and DC. Rarely do they provide us with advances. This means that, with taxes, the average reviewer for CBR will wind up actually only clearing about $10/review. Now imagine how long it takes you to read a book, form an opinion, and then craft that opinion into 500-700 words. How much does that break down to per hour? CBR doesn't offer bonuses based on page views either, so we get paid the same flat amount whether 800 or 800,000 people read our work.

I love talking about comics so so much and this is the only place where I've been paid to do it. There isn't much opportunity and we're clearly fighting for scraps. So I try to get as many people to look at my work however I can. Because there's no money in it. I honestly don't know how much longer I can afford to devote time to writing about them, to be honest. The creators, the publisher, the franchise? They're all still making living wages and my opinion won't be hurting their position anytime soon.

Let me know if you have any thoughts off of this. Thanks again.

[Complexed]

Hi Complexed! Thanks so much for taking the time to respond, very cool of you. I appreciate your honesty and in return, I'm going to pull back the curtain a little bit here.

I said no one looks at reviews. I shouldn't have said "no one;" you're right. I meant the majority of the comic book reading public (such that our numbers are) do not live or die off of what I think about a comic book. I made this point above but remember - people here aren't bothered to remember my name when they read something I write. They won't remember my opinion after 24-48 hours. From what we've been told the reviews section does not drive traffic to CBR and ranks very low in their traffic in general. I'm not offended by this! People are busy with lives and concerns of their own. It does make me think I shout into a void sometimes but like the French say Sest La Vye.

Fit hat's the case, then why do the reviews at all? When books get low scores, it makes people pay attention

I get where you're coming from, but I would like to point something out - you did and still read the book anyhow.

See what I mean? You know what you like. You know what you enjoy. Whether a book is for me or not is going change whether or not it speaks to you.

I'm flattered that anyone reads what I think about a book, I am! It's awesome. BUT, I'm also pragmatic about this.

Can I ask you a question? I'm going to assume you said yes because I couldn't hear you (the radiation didn't give me super hearing like I hoped).

Is it more that you are worried or concerned that me giving it one star will drive people away from the X-Men? Because I can assure you that won't happen. The X-Men are bulletproof. Like, no one at Marvel is going to walk in to Daniel Ketchum or Mark Paniccia's office and go "Did you see what The Reviewer said about Extraordinary X-Men this week? Youuuuuuuuuuuuu'reeeee fired!"

I completely disagree with a lot of this. Anyone who was only considering picking up the book and sees your review first may not. While you may think no one cares about your opinion, it's being published on a pretty popular comics website. Will it break the back of sales? Probably not, but it still gives the book a negative connotation, which is totally fine if it's a bad book, but your review is more positive than negative and doesn't really craft why it's deserving of one star at all[/QUOTE]

Right. My critical opinion is in the body of the review itself. I was a little unclear there. Sorry about that. It was late and I was also at the same time trying to watch Dean Ambrose do his lil' bing-bong clothesline thingy to Fight Owens Fight.

Did you ever read any of Roger Ebert's work? He was a movie critic from Chicago who passed away a couple years ago; maybe one of the best writers of what have become referred to as "reviews."

He didn't like the star system, and I agree with him. Here's a link to the post where he discusses this - http://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-jou...too-many-stars

I think if you look at my review style and what I write about (and thank you for looking back on other reviews I've written! That means a lot that you took the time to do that) you'll see that I actually give a lot of high ranking reviews to books. That's because I LOVE comics. And when I don't like them or have an issue that creates a sticking point for me I try to understand why.

Here's what the stars are useful for on this site: getting people to open an article, and getting CBR to promote the piece.

Do you know what the most valuable real estate is on the Reviews page? The top three spaces under the banner "This Week's Highest Rated Comics." If you read a book and rate it 4-5 stars then it's most likely going to wind up there, and more people are going to read your piece about that book. When a book ranks that high, CBR will post about it on Facebook, Twitter, and wherever else they have a social media presence. That then means the piece that reviewer wrote will have more eyes on it, and more discussion surrounding it. Great! More people talking about comics. Everybody wins!

So now the book, which has been given a low number of stars (a system you don't like and previously claimed to not use) will loose out on additional promotion through Facebook/Twitter and wherever else.

Below that are a series of thumbnails that are small on a desktop, and even smaller on a mobile device because CBR is not designed for mobile. Look at the reviews page on your phone. See how small that all is? No one wants to squint through that. Plus, all the middling-rated reviews bleed together into one. The only thing that pops out is when something is rated low. You clicked on this review to see why the low score and I gave my opinion.

So, what I should have said was: Stars are only for tricking people into reading what I write. I still fully believe that and am unapologetic about it. My goal, as a writer, is to get the most people's eyes on my work.

We have to buy our own books to review from Marvel and DC. Rarely do they provide us with advances. This means that, with taxes, the average reviewer for CBR will wind up actually only clearing about $10/review. Now imagine how long it takes you to read a book, form an opinion, and then craft that opinion into 500-700 words. How much does that break down to per hour? CBR doesn't offer bonuses based on page views either, so we get paid the same flat amount whether 800 or 800,000 people read our work.

I love talking about comics so so much and this is the only place where I've been paid to do it. There isn't much opportunity and we're clearly fighting for scraps. So I try to get as many people to look at my work however I can. Because there's no money in it. I honestly don't know how much longer I can afford to devote time to writing about them, to be honest. The creators, the publisher, the franchise? They're all still making living wages and my opinion won't be hurting their position anytime soon.

Let me know if you have any thoughts off of this. Thanks again.

Do I think the X_Men are bullet proof? I absolutely do not. There has been an ongoing debate over their status at Marvel and their treatment, which I'm surely not getting into in this thread. If their books consistently get bad reviews it will stand out. And again, if the book was bad then it deserves a bad review, but you never quite articulate that in your review. Your main complaint about liking the end of Bendis' run (which was abysmal and mostly erased itself in my opinion) and then dropping the X-Men straight into a darker story is jarring, but perhaps bringing up how Marvel needlessly delayed #600 book and then released it at the same time as their darker direction would have been a more practical way to get that point across. But it's your review, not mine. I just don't see how this one flaw you mention immediately takes the book down to one-star. The whole element of the 8-missing months is not something I enjoy honestly, but every book did the same thing. Is every book with a new direction different from it's last demoted to one-star?

Again, if the book deserved one-star than I'm fine with that, but considering you say you don't really use the star system, you say lower scoring books get less promotion via social media and your single dislike of the book is something that every Marvel title had to experience doesn't really give me reason to believe you spent anytime thinking about Extraordinary X-Men. With all due respect, if having to buy it and spend time on it is such a burden, perhaps you should review fewer books.

[Wiccan]

Huh, I read all tou said, and saying that you're just putting 1 star to cause polemic and make people curious is completely childish and stupid. Is still pretty harsh and exagerated since this issue was not that bad.

[DDD]

I stopped buying everything an anything Ramos a few years back. I had been a fan for a long long time since Crimson so I just got a bit bored, but I don't understand how he can get bad reviews? Everything he does is near perfect. Even if he drew a circle on a square, it'd be incredible.

I'm only sad he never drew for Claremont.

[TheMattLittle]

Fit hat's the case, then why do the reviews at all? When books get low scores, it makes people pay attention

I completely disagree with a lot of this. Anyone who was only considering picking up the book and sees your review first may not. While you may think no one cares about your opinion, it's being published on a pretty popular comics website. Will it break the back of sales? Probably not, but it still gives the book a negative connotation, which is totally fine if it's a bad book, but your review is more positive than negative and doesn't really craft why it's deserving of one star at all

So now the book, which has been given a low number of stars (a system you don't like and previously claimed to not use) will loose out on additional promotion through Facebook/Twitter and wherever else.

Do I think the X_Men are bullet proof? I absolutely do not. There has been an ongoing debate over their status at Marvel and their treatment, which I'm surely not getting into in this thread. If their books consistently get bad reviews it will stand out. And again, if the book was bad then it deserves a bad review, but you never quite articulate that in your review. Your main complaint about liking the end of Bendis' run (which was abysmal and mostly erased itself in my opinion) and then dropping the X-Men straight into a darker story is jarring, but perhaps bringing up how Marvel needlessly delayed the book and then released it with at the same time as their darker direction would have been a more practical way to get that point across. But it's your review, not mine. I just don't see how this one flaw you mention immediately takes the book down to one-star. The whole element of the 8-missing months is not something I enjoy honestly, but every book did the same thing. Is every book with a new direction different from it's last demoted to one-star?

Again, if the book deserved one-star than I'm fine with that, but considering you say you don't really use the star system, you say lower scoring books get less promotion via social media and your single dislike of the book is something that every Marvel title had to experience doesn't really give me reason to believe you spent anytime thinking about Extraordinary X-Men. With all due respect, if having to buy it and spend time on it is such a burden, perhaps you should review fewer books.

The X-Men will never be cancelled my friend. Breathe easy on that. Look at how many books they publish with X in the title.

These books are editorially/financially driven, not critical opinion driven. If they were guess what - Marvel would have hired us for our opinions on their work.

You guys might like/dislike my thoughts on the books but Marvel does not care. You can't possibly believe that right? They're too big, and too busy, to care. And, again, that's not sour grapes, that's just how the world works! It's totally fine. The sun still rises and the wind still blows and coffee still smells better than it tastes.

Here's why I think this - I have been reviewing books at CBR for 2 years. The only time I have ever met anyone in comics who has said they've read my reviews was Tom King. Because I freakin' love "Grayson" and have gushed about it here more than once.

The star told you "this book isn't for me." In this scenario me=me the writer. Not you, the reader. OH GOD I'VE GONE CROSSEYED

I then spent some time talking about the things I saw in the book. I'm sorry if you didn't feel like I didn't think about this book because you disagree with the star and not my opinion.

It didn't lose out on promotion. In fact, look at how long this thread is. Even before I stopped in people were dropping in to give positive press to it and I'd bet that there are now more positive words here than there were in my original piece. And guess what? They'll find your opinions, and they'll see that you guys liked it, and if they're the type of reader you feel they are, they'll say "well, there's some real divide in opinion on this book. What is the big deal" and they'll head to the shop, or they'll go to Comixology, and they'll buy the book. FREE PROMOTION! And Marvel still wins without spending a single cent on advertising.

I do reviews because I get paid a little bit of money to have a piece of the Internet where I get to tell everyone what I think and feel about comic books. Why wouldn't I take advantage of that opportunity?

I appreciate the weight you give to my opinion. It means a lot. But looking at your impassioned focus on stars I think my writing about comics may not be for you. I do look forward to talking about other comics with you here on the boards though!

[VilotorioFabiano]

The people who read your reviews are usually well informed enough that they wouldn't be influenced by your decision. So you rating it one star isn't going to really do much except to add to the aura of negativity the XMEN comics currently have. It's like no matter what, let's crap on the XMEN even when they actually do something right (You treated this review the way Beast treats Cyclops! ). I recently returned to XMEN comics after a few years off and one of the reasons I avoided Bendis' run is because every time I went into an XMEN board, all the fans were complaining. And while most were right to complain (I agree about Marvel disrespecting the XMEN line because of the FOX deal), it still put me off the books.

Also, you rate them all as a 1 or a 5 to increase click-bait? That makes me not want to read your reviews anymore as I rarely feel anything is worthy of a 1/5. Especially when you give out as many compliments as you did. It makes me feel like you're reviews are more about getting people to take opposing sides as opposed to discussing in depth what has happened.

[Wiccan]

OH MAN I AM EDITING THIS BECAUSE I JUST REALIZED WICCAN DID THE SAME THING TO ME!

Here's the original reply:
******************** (<--stars! )

Wow, that's kinda mean Wiccan. You could have chosen your words better.

Why is making people curious about a book a bad thing? You want a reviewer to do something to make people think about a book. You seem to be mad that I did just that.

Sorry that stars mean so much to you but they do not to me.

*********************
Okay, so let's see what Wiccan did here.

Wiccan could have used kinder language to talk to a stranger who had a differing opinion. Instead, he chose to call me names and tell me I'm stupid.

Why?

Because Wiccan knew that it would get me to read.

Wiccan, I applaud you, you are pretty clever.

I didn't said you were stupid, I just meant that this "lets give a bad note to the book so people gets surprised and wants to know why" feels like a stupid thing to me. Thanks for the stars though