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  1. #91
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abmccray View Post
    The universe thing has already been handled in Super, anyway, so this whole discussion about sources is kind of off. Jaco confirmed that there are a lot of galaxies, debunking the "4" thing.
    Please show me the confirmation about galaxies , plural .

  2. #92
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    The only one guessing here is you. You're basically claiming to know more about Japanese translations, than one of the guys I was quoting who actually could translate it. It was never once refereed to having only 4 galaxies in the manga. That's a fact, not an opinion. It was consistently referred to as areas, or something else. Each kai looks after a fourth of the galaxy. The translations in the guidebooks are never 100% clear on whether they mean galaxy or galaxies, but the manga refers to them as "areas".

    But you like to ignore that in order to try and low ball the feat as much as you can.
    I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the word " opinion"

    In your opinion "areas" mean "galaxies" despite your own admission that the manga never once refers to them as galaxies , plural

    I'm merely following rumbles rules. You badly want "areas" to mean " galaxies" because you like the franchise . I wonder if you would have said the same for a marvel or Dc character claiming things like that

    Akira partakes in the Daizenshuu. He is involved in interviews and he creates the drawings, such as the maps and the like. It's the Daizenshuu and Akira is always referenced in the book itself. The site I posted just has the translations of the contents.
    So why do marvel and DC guidebooks not count?

    Again, merely following rumbles rules

    Why do people insinuating that we are talking about the friggin punch? We are talking about the beam clash.
    You are certainly putting a lot of effort to differentiate between the one and the other to make the feat valid . I wonder ..has the author made half as much effort ? Anything from DBS or the manga noting the difference like that ?

    Anyway, thanks for replying to the Dorkster. Pretty much said everything I was going to say so now I don't have to worry about making a long ass reply :P.
    It really doesn't save you from 90% of your self contradictory mess . It merely re-enforces the fact that the feat is largely unquantifiable . Aside from that it doesn't really do away with the problems of a universe with a physical barrier or the Galaxy issue either


    Said ruling was made long before Super was a thing.
    I missed the part where super has anything to do with things based on guidebooks ( namely the siZe of the Galaxy ) , allowing you to ignore a mod ruling

    That was in reference to character feats, not how their universe looks and acts. What, because you think the DB universe has 4 small galaxies, that means that any other source material should be disregarded and we should just follow what you believe?
    We disregard guidebooks and supplementary material for western comics. Should an exception be made for Manga?

    For it sure as hell was never stated in the manga that there were only 4 galaxies,
    I'm asking you . Does the manga say North Galaxy , singular , yes or no?

    so you could only possibly mean to force how you (wrongfully) believe the size of the DB universe is on on forum.

    Doesn't work that way Dork.
    I'm not "forcing" anything . Merely following rules . Heck I'll PM Guy1 and ask him if guidebooks are admissible for feats now , if you want

  3. #93
    Mighty Member abmccray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    Please show me the confirmation about galaxies , plural .


    Jaco: “Look, I’m an elite patrolman! I’m busy! Don’t call me over for every little thing!”
    Bulma: “Hey you! Do you know how to get to the center of the universe? Not just the center of the galaxy, the center of the whole universe!”
    Jaco: “What are you, stupid or something? Even just one galaxy is ridiculously vast, and there’s tons of galaxies in the universe! Nobody could know how to get there…Well OK, Zuno might…”
    Bulma: “Zuno? Who’s that?”
    Jaco: “Zuno’s a weirdo who knows everything. Zuno can even tell what style of underwear a total stranger is wearing.”
    Bulma: “Would this person know about the Super Dragon Balls too?”
    Jaco: “Well, I’ve never heard of those, but I’m sure Zuno knows all about them.”
    Bulma: “Take me to Zuno right now!”
    Jaco: “…If you insist, but my ship’s only got room for one more.”
    Also, we could get a pretty fun fight animated:


  4. #94
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    I'll just say, I'm not looking to bash the franchise. I am fond of Dragonball as a whole.

    Super has just been... it's not really been my thing. Or rather, I like the plot beats; the whole multiverse thing and Goku and Vegeta actually starting to become gods is a good direction for the series. But the way the powers and the quality of the anime has just been... eh.

    Anyhow, Phoenix beats Goku amirite?

  5. #95
    Pro Mutant Anarchist's Avatar
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    Anyhow, Phoenix beats Goku amirite?
    Like a red-headed step-child (literally, with Super Saiyan God and all, he).

  6. #96
    Incredible Member buutenks's Avatar
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    About the galaxy thing.jaco says there r tons of galaxies so ye.

  7. #97
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    I've got tons of pennies.
    "... and when the Golden Toad started to sing, there was no turning back." - grampagen (Ochazuke)

    "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

  8. #98
    Reborn Samurai Len Ikari145's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    I've got tons of pennies.
    (charges Ultimate Nullifier and aims at Cthulhu) Donate to the needy.
    Ichigo: What even *are* you?!

    Kenpachi: Some say my mother was a train. Some say that I'm a rejected Godzilla monster too strong for the series canon. But everyone says: I'M THE KEEEEENPACHIIIIII!!!!

  9. #99
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len Ikari145 View Post
    (charges Ultimate Nullifier and aims at Cthulhu) Donate to the needy.
    But those pennies could also be tons of galaxies !
    "... and when the Golden Toad started to sing, there was no turning back." - grampagen (Ochazuke)

    "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

  10. #100
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    In your opinion "areas" mean "galaxies" despite your own admission that the manga never once refers to them as galaxies , plural
    No. I was telling you that even in the manga, it was never once mentioned that there was only 4 galaxies in the universe. You're trying to push for the universe being only the size of 4 galaxies based literally on nothing but your own opinion, all the while trying to discredit source material. I'd be happy with just saying it was no bigger or smaller a normal universe(which we usually assume for most works of fiction, as I don't recall this ever coming up before anywhere else). But your absurd attempts of trying to low ball the feats by saying that their universe only has 4 galaxies based on nothing from canon warrants a source that says otherwise.

    I'm merely following rumbles rules. You badly want "areas" to mean " galaxies" because you like the franchise . I wonder if you would have said the same for a marvel or Dc character claiming things like that
    I would be fine with it actually. Funny how you accuse me of being biased btw as I was just about to say that it is obvious that if we were talking about Superman, or any other DC character, you wouldn't be trying so hard to low ball the feats here.

    So why do marvel and DC guidebooks not count?
    I never usually had a problem with them myself. Certain things from the guidebooks shouldn't be a problem when it comes to explaining some of the lore and such. Things that help us learn more about the series' universe and such.

    You are certainly putting a lot of effort to differentiate between the one and the other to make the feat valid.
    One has nothing to do with the other as one was basically a bomb of raw energy while the other almost made Nik have a nervous breakdown. Your condescension only manages to make your arguments look childish, not smart.

    I wonder ..has the author made half as much effort ? Anything from DBS or the manga noting the difference like that ?
    You mean the sensibility of the feats? Not many manga, or comic authors in general ever make that much effort either. Some do, certainly. But when you have stuff like this:



    There is going to be things that don't make sense.

    Or are you are talking about the type of move? Well ones a ki beam clash while the other was caused by their fists connecting. There isn't much similarities between the two.

    It really doesn't save you from 90% of your self contradictory mess.
    You have been unable to actually mention any contradictions, and what you have mentioned weren't even that, just you trying to twist and discredit the sources, while trying to push in making the universe the size of 4 galaxies in order to low ball the feat. There is no Japanese plural for the word "Galaxy". So you're asking for something that doesn't exist.

    It merely re-enforces the fact that the feat is largely unquantifiable.


    Aside from that it doesn't really do away with the problems of a universe with a physical barrier or the Galaxy issue either
    Nik and others already answered to most of this this in one way or another, so there is no need for me to basically say the same thing.

    I missed the part where super has anything to do with things based on guidebooks ( namely the siZe of the Galaxy ) , allowing you to ignore a mod ruling
    Said ruling was also in reference to feats and characters stats, etc. We are talking about the size of the universe. You are constantly pushing for there only being 4 galaxies in the universe(and each of them being the size of an average galaxy I assume?). You are arguing for this based on nothing, and won't believe otherwise unless it is specified anywhere that is not from a guidebook. But there is no difference between the words "galaxy" and galaxies" in Japanese. They share the same word.

    When the "no guidebook" ruling was made, I sincerely doubt lore being the reason in mind.

    We disregard guidebooks and supplementary material for western comics. Should an exception be made for Manga?
    I wouldn't mind for an exception when it comes to lore that official guidebooks give you about their respective series imho. Comics included. We know the timeline for Legend of Zelda due to a guidebook(iirc), and I don't recall anyone ever having a problem with it being mentioned whatsoever as it wasn't being used for feats, but to tell about the timeline, something that is part of the series story.

    I'm asking you . Does the manga say North Galaxy , singular , yes or no?
    There is no plurals in Japanese. So technically yes and no as both words translate to the same thing in Japanese. See for yourself:

    http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...a4fda5deb.html

    http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...687b63115.html

    http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...07888047e.html


    You're trying to equate english vocabulary with Japanese mate. Not going to work. There is a reason that English is regarded as the hardest language to learn.

    I'm not "forcing" anything . Merely following rules . Heck I'll PM Guy1 and ask him if guidebooks are admissible for feats now , if you want
    You're basically trying to say that; "if it's not clear on whether it's a galaxy or "galaxies", then don't use it!", while trying to say that the universe should only have 4 galaxies based on......what exactly?

    I already PM'd Guy myself. So let's just leave this here for now(and I see this getting nastier if it goes on) and let him decide. Though now that abmccray posted that page with Jaco saying there is a bunch of galaxies there is not much point on that subject. Though a ruling on whether lore from the guidebooks(not stats or anything like that, but lore that explains how the series universe works and such, not the characters themselves when it comes to their ability in combat) is acceptable or not would be fine too.
    Last edited by Cody; 11-24-2015 at 08:31 PM.
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    Every time you say the name of some kind of nonsense martial art, an angel gets its wings, and Val Armorr learns the martial art, retroactively founds it, then super karates the angel unconscious with it.

  11. #101
    Astonishing Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    For what is worth, i don't really consider the space ripple thing a strength feat rather than some sort of cosmic divine ki reaction/effect since it was causing the actual fabric of space as well as the things occupying said space to distort without causing any sort of damage (initially) to them, which would approximately be the equivalent of two cartoon characters punching each other so hard that the animation cells start flapping.

  12. #102
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    For what is worth, i don't really consider the space ripple thing a strength feat rather than some sort of cosmic divine ki reaction/effect since it was causing the actual fabric of space as well as the things occupying said space to distort without causing any sort of damage (initially) to them, which would approximately be the equivalent of two cartoon characters punching each other so hard that the animation cells start flapping.
    I think the same myself. I mean the shockwave was heavily delayed, and while it was showing us an outside view of the galaxy, the galaxy shakes from the initial impact of their fists connecting, and we see what's left of some planets getting wrecked from the impact.

    Then the shockwave starts out. Which vaporizes random planets and travels outside of the universe and beyond, supposedly getting stronger.

    The first bit? I can see being taken as a strength feat. The second? Too weird to be considered to having anything to do with strength imho.

    In the manga it's much simpler: the Universe, and the Kaioshin realm outside of it; shakes. That's about it. I mean it still isn't realistic, but it's nowhere near as bad as what happened in the anime. More impressive than the first effect mentioned above when their fists connected in the anime.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Physically grabbing an released Black Hole to stop it is like throwing a sandwich at Galactus to stop him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Len Ikari145 View Post
    I stand by my belief of Toriyama seeing a certain match online and going "Oh Yeah?!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Every time you say the name of some kind of nonsense martial art, an angel gets its wings, and Val Armorr learns the martial art, retroactively founds it, then super karates the angel unconscious with it.

  13. #103
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    There is no plurals in Japanese. See for yourself:

    You're trying to equate english vocabulary with Japanese mate.
    No plurals is not really an excuse. I mean, just focusing on the "no plurals" argument, let's use an example, (with my admittedly rusty Japanese), so here's a Japanese sentence: 多くの銀河があります, now let's break it down.

    多く - Ōku - many

    の - no - possessive particle

    銀河 - ginga - galaxy, galaxies

    が - ga - subject indicator

    あります - arimasu - there is

    No plural needed.

    Outside of that, unless I'm mistaken, that's not the original Japanese ambccray posted. So ... the "multiple galaxies" statement is off of a translation of a translation based off of a source that has "no plurals". I'm not saying that it's inadmissible (but come on, it really kind of is, man), but seeing the page in the original Japanese would be useful.

    EDIT: Like I said, my Japanese isn't the 100% best. If I missed something feel free to shoot me in the tentacle foot.
    "... and when the Golden Toad started to sing, there was no turning back." - grampagen (Ochazuke)

    "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

  14. #104
    Truth and Conviction Hazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abmccray View Post
    The universe thing has already been handled in Super, anyway, so this whole discussion about sources is kind of off. Jaco confirmed that there are a lot of galaxies, debunking the "4" thing.
    Even before that, Goku searches for Vegeta in five different galaxies, doesn't find him (DBS ep. 18 I think) and notes he is even further away, confirming there is more out there.

    Which, by the way, is also a nice for Goku's sensing range.
    Last edited by Hazard; 11-24-2015 at 04:59 PM.
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  15. #105
    Astonishing Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    No plurals is not really an excuse. I mean, just focusing on the "no plurals" argument, let's use an example, (with my admittedly rusty Japanese), so here's a Japanese sentence: 多くの銀河があります, now let's break it down.

    多く - Ōku - many

    の - no - possessive particle

    銀河 - ginga - galaxy, galaxies

    が - ga - subject indicator

    あります - arimasu - there is

    No plural needed.

    Outside of that, unless I'm mistaken, that's not the original Japanese ambccray posted. So ... the "multiple galaxies" statement is off of a translation of a translation based off of a source that has "no plurals". I'm not saying that it's inadmissible (but come on, it really kind of is, man), but seeing the page in the original Japanese would be useful.

    EDIT: Like I said, my Japanese isn't the 100% best. If I missed something feel free to shoot me in the tentacle foot.
    What kind of giant monster isn't fluent in Japanese? And a tentacled one, no less!

    You shame us all, Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh.

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