Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran
Arx Inosaan
EDIT: Whoopwhoopwhoopwhoopwhoop.
Last edited by Len Ikari145; 11-24-2015 at 07:00 PM.
Ichigo: What even *are* you?!
Kenpachi: Some say my mother was a train. Some say that I'm a rejected Godzilla monster too strong for the series canon. But everyone says: I'M THE KEEEEENPACHIIIIII!!!!
I don't go anywhere near under aged. That's wrong on SO many levels.
Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran
Arx Inosaan
Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran
Arx Inosaan
My bad. I'll delete it.
Besides, I find this more damning to your rep:
cthulhusavestheworld-b.jpg
Ichigo: What even *are* you?!
Kenpachi: Some say my mother was a train. Some say that I'm a rejected Godzilla monster too strong for the series canon. But everyone says: I'M THE KEEEEENPACHIIIIII!!!!
No, not really , I have noted it multiple times already . I'm basing it on the fact that the North Galaxy is referred to in the singular in the manga, by your own admission. I'm basing it on the fact that by your own admission , the manga talks about 4 galaxies , with " areas" and " nebulae" and whatnot
Whether galaxies was meant to be plural or not , that's not really on my part to speculate . We work with what's stated in Rumbles , not speculation
It could well mean something in the plural , but as Cthullu already posted , there are clear cut ways of showing that in Japanese without forcing "areas" to mean " galaxies "
I'm going with what's explicitly clear on panel . You are going about it in a way that has nothing to do with how Rumbles operate
Guide books not even entirely written by the creator are " source material " now? Goodness.all the while trying to discredit source material.
If it's so explicitly clear , shouldn't be too difficult finding an actual example from the manga now would it ?
Your own guidebook stuff has noted that's a sealed universe with a finite boundary . Aside from that when there are people in charge of a place called " North Galaxy", how many more galaxies are there, ya think?I'd be happy with just saying it was no bigger or smaller a normal universe(which we usually assume for most works of fiction, as I don't recall this ever coming up before anywhere else).
Let's put it this way . In DC the GL corps patrols 3600 space sectors . If that was the one and only reference to how the universe works in DC , that would be that . That would be a finite universe of some 3600 parts , whose size is not really that clear cut . But we have the following things from on panel in the comics-
1) GLs don't patrol each and every sector / there are more
2) the universe in DC is shown to be " infinite", such that ones of it's very origin stories involves two infinities converging to become one
3) It has actual things like the Andromeda and Milky Way Galaxy , which show it to be a regular sized universe ( at least )
But sure , had all that not been there , we would have to be asking the same questions about it . Now if you can come up with some similarly canon stuff that easily disproves the 4 galaxies thing that would be awesome
Canon sources that refer to things like a " North Galaxy " are now meaningless in light of non canon guidebooks and "areas" . RiiiightBut your absurd attempts of trying to low ball the feats by saying that their universe only has 4 galaxies based on nothing from canon warrants a source that says otherwise.
Heck dude if you can show me a canon definition of " North Galaxy actually means something like a galactic supercluster" like the different definition for nebula in the series , even that would be something
But all you've got is " areas". How's that meeting any standards of evidence hereabouts ?
Please point me to any instance where I have used guidebooks as an argument for Superman or any other DC characterI would be fine with it actually. Funny how you accuse me of being biased btw as I was just about to say that it is obvious that if we were talking about Superman, or any other DC character, you wouldn't be trying so hard to low ball the feats here.
It's not about your opinion it's about Rumbles rulesI never usually had a problem with them myself. Certain things from the guidebooks shouldn't be a problem when it comes to explaining some of the lore and such. Things that help us learn more about the series' universe and such.
For example the same guidebook that tells us Nightwing's timeline from Robin to Nightwing also tells us he is the 2nd most skilled MA artist in the DCU second only to Batman ( at a time when just as one thing , Cassandra Cain was fully active at her Batgirl peak)
So who decides what counts and what doesn't , from guidebooks??
" bomb of raw energy?" Wow you'd say anything to make the feat count, Eh?One has nothing to do with the other as one was basically a bomb of raw energy while the other almost made Nik have a nervous breakdown. Your condescension only manages to make your arguments look childish, not smart.
Nik dismissed the feat as being unusable because of what it implies
Is he being biased too, then? At least I tried to quantify the feat in a way that would make it usable for Rumbles . Nik straight up said it was and I quote " stupid "
What's that got to do with anything ?You mean the sensibility of the feats? Not many manga, or comic authors in general ever make that much effort either. Some do, certainly. But when you have stuff like this:
You DO realise that feat is thrown out on Rumbles right ?There is going to be things that don't make sense.
How exactly is this helping your argument by bringing up other feats that are thrown out on Rumbles? Do you want the Goku feat to be thrown out too?
So speculation and nothing like the writer specifying the difference between the twoOr are you are talking about the type of move? Well ones a ki beam clash while the other was caused by their fists connecting. There isn't much similarities between the two.
This sounds like the old WBH argument ("it wasn't the footsteps , it was the GRB! Anything to make it valid !")
At least you admit to someYou have been unable to actually mention many contradictions, and what you have mentioned weren't even that,
Source in question being a guidebook .just you trying to twist and discredit the sources,
Aside from that have you quite decided whether it's a physical barrier or a non -physical one with engravings floating in the sky yet ?
So galaxies , plural don't exist ? Heck here's a simple way of showing more than one Galaxy : North, South, East, west galaxieswhile trying to push in making the universe the size of 4 galaxies in order to low ball the feat. There is no Japanese plural for the word "Galaxy". So you're asking for something that doesn't exist.
Ring any bells ?
What a cop out. I'm guessing you don't have to explain why you were talking about physical and non physical barriers at the same time ( to begin with ) because Nik addressed that? Oh wait, no he didn'tNik and others already answered to most of this this in one way or another, so there is no need for me to basically say the same thing.
YupSaid ruling was also in reference to feats and characters stats, etc. We are talking about the size of the universe. You are constantly pushing for there only being 4 galaxies in the universe(and each of them being the size of an average galaxy I assume?).
Goodness. No no no . North Galaxy . SingularYou are arguing for this based on nothing,
Based on nothing argument. You making . " areas"=galaxies and speculation about singular/ plural . Clear ?
That's the ideaand won't believe otherwise unless it is specified anywhere that is not from a guidebook.
And yet the simple act of assigning them directions gives us a numberBut there is no difference between the words "galaxy" and galaxies" in Japanese. They share the same word.
So more speculationWhen the "no guidebook" ruling was made, I sincerely doubt lore being the reason in mind.
Then please take it up to the mods that you want guidebooks allowed as and let's not play around here , it makes your DBS feat super valid . Until then, I'll stick to the rulesI wouldn't mind for an exception when it comes to lore that official guidebooks give you about their respective series imho. Comics included. We know the timeline for Legend of Zelda due to a guidebook(iirc), and I don't recall anyone ever having a problem with it being mentioned whatsoever as it wasn't being used for feats, but to tell about the timeline, something that is part of the series story.
Cthullu already showed its easy enough to show the difference without resorting to mental gymnasticsThere is no plurals in Japanese. So technically yes and no as both words translate to the same thing in Japanese. See for yourself:
http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...a4fda5deb.html
http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...687b63115.html
http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...07888047e.html
You're trying to equate english vocabulary with Japanese mate. Not going to work. There is a reason that English is regarded as the hardest language to learn.
North Galaxy , singularYou're basically trying to say that; "if it's not clear on whether it's a galaxy or "galaxies", then don't use it!", while trying to say that the universe should only have 4 galaxies based on......what exactly?
Apparently that's not an official translation . But yeah let's wait for a ruling on the guidebooks thing at leastI already PM'd Guy myself. So let's just leave this here for now(and I see this getting nastier if it goes on) and let him decide. Though now that abmccray posted that page with Jaco saying there is a bunch of galaxies there is not much point on that subject. Though a ruling on whether lore from the guidebooks(not stats or anything like that, but lore that explains how the series universe works and such, not the characters themselves when it comes to their ability in combat) is acceptable or not would be fine too.
Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran
Arx Inosaan
It could be official, who knows. Point was, that looks like Korean (forgive me if it's not Korean specifically but that's not Japanese). Which, while useful in the sense that it means things are being translated (neato!), you're basically then saying that the English translation of the Korean translation of the Japanese translation is immutable proof of legitimacy, despite Japanese not having a specific way of defining plurals outside of people and things like mountains (there are ways, but it requires either a counter, specific wording, etc).
Which really doesn't make a lot of sense. If I could see the page in Japanese, it'd definitely be useful. Because, depending on the way the sentence is formatted, it could be multiple galaxies. Which still doesn't exactly legitimize the feat, but it does give me something to do.
Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran
Arx Inosaan
4 very large galaxies, each being the size of one fourth of an actual universe. I based this off how the Daizenshuu describes the size of the DB universe.
This seems to have been retconned however as both the DBS manga and anime mention multiple galaxies. As in; more than 4, as abmccray and Hazard pointed out, respectively.
There are either more than 4 galaxies, like our universe, or 4, really large galaxies. The guidebooks described it as the latter, while Dragonball Super manga and anime show the former.Whether galaxies was meant to be plural or not , that's not really on my part to speculate . We work with what's stated in Rumbles , not speculation
So you think all those designs of the universe from the link were just doodles of his then with no meaning behind them whatsoever, and that they used those pictures to create some sort of fanfiction, that about right?Guide books not even entirely written by the creator are " source material " now? Goodness.
If it's so explicitly clear , shouldn't be too difficult finding an actual example from the manga now would it ?
Aside from that when there are people in charge of a place called " North Galaxy", how many more galaxies are there, ya think?
Let's put it this way . In DC the GL corps patrols 3600 space sectors . If that was the one and only reference to how the universe works in DC , that would be that . That would be a finite universe of some 3600 parts , whose size is not really that clear cut . But we have the following things from on panel in the comics-
1) GLs don't patrol each and every sector / there are more
2) the universe in DC is shown to be " infinite", such that ones of it's very origin stories involves two infinities converging to become one
3) It has actual things like the Andromeda and Milky Way Galaxy , which show it to be a regular sized universe ( at least )
But sure , had all that not been there , we would have to be asking the same questions about it . Now if you can come up with some similarly canon stuff that easily disproves the 4 galaxies thing that would be awesome
See abmccray and Hazards posts.
An ever expanding universe in a boundary. Same source says both things. Nice to ignore one thing and not the other amirite?Your own guidebook stuff has noted that's a sealed universe with a finite boundary
Daizenshuu get their information from Akira, but sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night kiddo.Canon sources that refer to things like a " North Galaxy " are now meaningless in light of non canon guidebooks and "areas" . Riiiight
So you like..reply to posts before reading the ones after them is that about right? You look kinda silly asking for canon outside of a guidebook when two have been posted before this post.Heck dude if you can show me a canon definition of " North Galaxy actually means something like a galactic supercluster" like the different definition for nebula in the series , even that would be something
But all you've got is " areas". How's that meeting any standards of evidence hereabouts ?
Never said you did. But that you wouldn't have a problem with it if the subject was about a DC character.Please point me to any instance where I have used guidebooks as an argument for Superman or any other DC character
It's not about your opinion it's about Rumbles rules
You have no concept of irony do you? :P
The first is about his backstory, nothing to do with his abilities. That should be fine. The second? Talks about his abilities, which should not be allowed as it can differ from feats.For example the same guidebook that tells us Nightwing's timeline from Robin to Nightwing also tells us he is the 2nd most skilled MA artist in the DCU second only to Batman ( at a time when just as one thing , Cassandra Cain was fully active at her Batgirl peak)
So who decides what counts and what doesn't , from guidebooks??
A backstory doesn't effect feats whatsoever. A statement about a persons abilities does effect feats, and are rightfully disallowed.
I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between an energy beam clash and two fists connecting."bomb of raw energy?" Wow you'd say anything to make the feat count, Eh?
He dismissed the punch feat, he never even talked about the energy struggle that we were talking about.Nik dismissed the feat as being unusable because of what it implies
When talking about the feat involving Goku and Beerus's fists connecting. You and I were talking about this:Is he being biased too, then? At least I tried to quantify the feat in a way that would make it usable for Rumbles . Nik straight up said it was and I quote " stupid "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J2ASqX_FO0
He talking about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxncbeyLgoE
Nice selective reading though.
Me asking what you were talking about in the bits you quoted should kind of give you a hint why I brought them up.How exactly is this helping your argument by bringing up other feats that are thrown out on Rumbles? Do you want the Goku feat to be thrown out too?
Or lack thereof.At least you admit to some
Now I will just be repeating myself at this point. DBS manga and anime also support there being more than 4 galaxies, so again; you saying this right after those incidents being mentioned is amusing.Source in question being a guidebook .
You realize that said barrier was by passed everal times by Vados and Champa just travelling from their universe to another. If it was completely physical, they wouldn't have gotten in now would they?Aside from that have you quite decided whether it's a physical barrier or a non -physical one with engravings floating in the sky yet ?
In Japanese. I suggest actually reading posts you reply too.So galaxies , plural don't exist ?
Which would translate to "ginga". Just like the word "galaxy" would as well.Heck here's a simple way of showing more than one Galaxy : North, South, East, west galaxies
Considering the fact that you are still trying to equate english vocabulary to Japanese, you aren't really helping your argument here. And the further attempts at condescension just makes me take you less seriously.Ring any bells ?
He addressed it when he said:What a cop out. I'm guessing you don't have to explain why you were talking about physical and non physical barriers at the same time ( to begin with ) because Nik addressed that? Oh wait, no he didn't
So yes; you admit to low balling the feat. You assume the galaxies are the size of real life galaxies based on....nothing at all. And that there are only four based on King Kai saying the word "ginga", which could mean either galaxy or galaxies?
And you speculating that there is truly only 4 galaxies , and assume their size, based on someone saying a word that could either mean galaxy or galaxies.Based on nothing argument. You making . " areas"=galaxies and speculation about singular/ plural . Clear ?
That's the idea
But not the size. And the word acts as two different meanings. The fact that in the DBS anime(as Hazard pointed out) and the DBS Manga(as abmccray pointed out) say there is more than 4 galaxies...kinda supports my argument a little more don't you think?And yet the simple act of assigning them directions gives us a number
If it's speculation to say that King Kai said "galaxies" instead of "galaxy" then so is arguing that he said "galaxy" instead of "galaxies".
Just looking at this, when it's right on the same page of Hazard bringing up Goku looking for Vegeta in 5 different galaxies in the anime is amusing.So more speculation
The mention of there being more than 4 galaxies in the anime and manga of DBS already supports my argument. It was episode 17, and it also showed the galaxies in question in the background.Then please take it up to the mods that you want guidebooks allowed as and let's not play around here , it makes your DBS feat super valid . Until then, I'll stick to the rules
True; but with the way it was said it could still go either way("Kai of the North Galaxy", "Kai of the North Galaxies", etc).Cthullu already showed its easy enough to show the difference without resorting to mental gymnastics
Anime already showed 5 galaxies while Goku was searching for Vegeta.Apparently that's not an official translation . But yeah let's wait for a ruling on the guidebooks thing at least
I don't think I'll be reading or replying to your replies until after a ruling. We are going in circles and I'm having trouble taking you seriously with your constant attempts at being condescending. Was trying to be civil, but if you're just going be childish I don't see the point in debating with you anymore.
I mean we had just added each other on our friends list. I thought that meant we had something special dammit!
Last edited by Cody; 11-24-2015 at 09:14 PM.
The Squid puns. The Oh so many corny Squid puns.
And we can't forget:
char_80439.jpg
And of course, the coup de grace:
Cthuko.jpg
Seriously, what is with you and taking the form of lolis whenever you head to Japan, anyways? Just how much money were you offered to debase yourself, you miserable invertebrate? This is why you will never measure up to Nyarlathotep. You don't see my great lord selling out HIS dignity like---
nyaruko02.jpg
IT WAS A PHASE, DAMMIT! A PHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE!!!!!!!
Ichigo: What even *are* you?!
Kenpachi: Some say my mother was a train. Some say that I'm a rejected Godzilla monster too strong for the series canon. But everyone says: I'M THE KEEEEENPACHIIIIII!!!!