Goku vs. Phoenix

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

What kind of giant monster isn't fluent in Japanese? And a tentacled one, no less!

You shame us all, Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh.

The kind that's conversations are generally more ... er, well, I get royalty checks for doing things I'm not proud of.

But ... y'know, the madness of not being 100% in Japanese is kind of .. my thing.

So do I REALLY shame you?

[Cody]

Even before that, Goku searches for Vegeta in five different galaxies, doesn't find him (DBS ep. 18 I think) and notes he is even further away, confirming there is more out there.

Which, by the way, is also a nice for Goku's sensing range.

I'd say that put's this subject to rest.

[Len Ikari145]

EDIT: Whoopwhoopwhoopwhoopwhoop.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

I don't go anywhere near under aged. That's wrong on SO many levels.

[Len Ikari145]

I don't go anywhere near under aged. That's wrong on SO many levels.

The footage doesn't lie, Cthulhu.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

The footage doesn't lie, Cthulhu.

That's neither footage, nor evidence.

Seriously though, I know it's not coming from a bad place, but I'm not fond of the pedophile stuff. I know it's the problem with taking on the persona of a tentacle monster, but still.

[Len Ikari145]

That's neither footage, nor evidence.

Seriously though, I know it's not coming from a bad place, but I'm not fond of the pedophile stuff. I know it's the problem with taking on the persona of a tentacle monster, but still.

My bad. I'll delete it.

Besides, I find this more damning to your rep:


cthulhusavestheworld-b.jpg

[The Dork Knight]

No. I was telling you that even in the manga, it was never once mentioned that there was only 4 galaxies in the universe. You're trying to push for the universe being only the size of 4 galaxies based literally on nothing but your own opinion,

No, not really , I have noted it multiple times already . I'm basing it on the fact that the North Galaxy is referred to in the singular in the manga, by your own admission. I'm basing it on the fact that by your own admission , the manga talks about 4 galaxies , with " areas" and " nebulae" and whatnot

Whether galaxies was meant to be plural or not , that's not really on my part to speculate . We work with what's stated in Rumbles , not speculation

It could well mean something in the plural , but as Cthullu already posted , there are clear cut ways of showing that in Japanese without forcing "areas" to mean " galaxies "

I'm going with what's explicitly clear on panel . You are going about it in a way that has nothing to do with how Rumbles operate

all the while trying to discredit source material.

Guide books not even entirely written by the creator are " source material " now? Goodness.

If it's so explicitly clear , shouldn't be too difficult finding an actual example from the manga now would it ?

I'd be happy with just saying it was no bigger or smaller a normal universe(which we usually assume for most works of fiction, as I don't recall this ever coming up before anywhere else).

Your own guidebook stuff has noted that's a sealed universe with a finite boundary . Aside from that when there are people in charge of a place called " North Galaxy", how many more galaxies are there, ya think?

Let's put it this way . In DC the GL corps patrols 3600 space sectors . If that was the one and only reference to how the universe works in DC , that would be that . That would be a finite universe of some 3600 parts , whose size is not really that clear cut . But we have the following things from on panel in the comics-
1) GLs don't patrol each and every sector / there are more
2) the universe in DC is shown to be " infinite", such that ones of it's very origin stories involves two infinities converging to become one
3) It has actual things like the Andromeda and Milky Way Galaxy , which show it to be a regular sized universe ( at least )

But sure , had all that not been there , we would have to be asking the same questions about it . Now if you can come up with some similarly canon stuff that easily disproves the 4 galaxies thing that would be awesome

But your absurd attempts of trying to low ball the feats by saying that their universe only has 4 galaxies based on nothing from canon warrants a source that says otherwise.

Canon sources that refer to things like a " North Galaxy " are now meaningless in light of non canon guidebooks and "areas" . Riiiight

Heck dude if you can show me a canon definition of " North Galaxy actually means something like a galactic supercluster" like the different definition for nebula in the series , even that would be something

But all you've got is " areas". How's that meeting any standards of evidence hereabouts ?

I would be fine with it actually. Funny how you accuse me of being biased btw as I was just about to say that it is obvious that if we were talking about Superman, or any other DC character, you wouldn't be trying so hard to low ball the feats here.

Please point me to any instance where I have used guidebooks as an argument for Superman or any other DC character

I never usually had a problem with them myself. Certain things from the guidebooks shouldn't be a problem when it comes to explaining some of the lore and such. Things that help us learn more about the series' universe and such.

It's not about your opinion it's about Rumbles rules

For example the same guidebook that tells us Nightwing's timeline from Robin to Nightwing also tells us he is the 2nd most skilled MA artist in the DCU second only to Batman ( at a time when just as one thing , Cassandra Cain was fully active at her Batgirl peak)

So who decides what counts and what doesn't , from guidebooks??

One has nothing to do with the other as one was basically a bomb of raw energy while the other almost made Nik have a nervous breakdown. Your condescension only manages to make your arguments look childish, not smart.

" bomb of raw energy?" Wow you'd say anything to make the feat count, Eh?
Nik dismissed the feat as being unusable because of what it implies

Is he being biased too, then? At least I tried to quantify the feat in a way that would make it usable for Rumbles . Nik straight up said it was and I quote " stupid "

You mean the sensibility of the feats? Not many manga, or comic authors in general ever make that much effort either. Some do, certainly. But when you have stuff like this:

What's that got to do with anything ?

There is going to be things that don't make sense.

You DO realise that feat is thrown out on Rumbles right ?

How exactly is this helping your argument by bringing up other feats that are thrown out on Rumbles? Do you want the Goku feat to be thrown out too?

Or are you are talking about the type of move? Well ones a ki beam clash while the other was caused by their fists connecting. There isn't much similarities between the two.

So speculation and nothing like the writer specifying the difference between the two

This sounds like the old WBH argument ("it wasn't the footsteps , it was the GRB! Anything to make it valid !")

You have been unable to actually mention many contradictions, and what you have mentioned weren't even that,

At least you admit to some

just you trying to twist and discredit the sources,

Source in question being a guidebook .

Aside from that have you quite decided whether it's a physical barrier or a non -physical one with engravings floating in the sky yet ?

while trying to push in making the universe the size of 4 galaxies in order to low ball the feat. There is no Japanese plural for the word "Galaxy". So you're asking for something that doesn't exist.

So galaxies , plural don't exist ? Heck here's a simple way of showing more than one Galaxy : North, South, East, west galaxies

Ring any bells ?

Nik and others already answered to most of this this in one way or another, so there is no need for me to basically say the same thing.

What a cop out. I'm guessing you don't have to explain why you were talking about physical and non physical barriers at the same time ( to begin with ) because Nik addressed that? Oh wait, no he didn't

[The Dork Knight]

Said ruling was also in reference to feats and characters stats, etc. We are talking about the size of the universe. You are constantly pushing for there only being 4 galaxies in the universe(and each of them being the size of an average galaxy I assume?).

Yup

You are arguing for this based on nothing,

Goodness. No no no . North Galaxy . Singular


Based on nothing argument. You making . " areas"=galaxies and speculation about singular/ plural . Clear ?

and won't believe otherwise unless it is specified anywhere that is not from a guidebook.

That's the idea

But there is no difference between the words "galaxy" and galaxies" in Japanese. They share the same word.

And yet the simple act of assigning them directions gives us a number

When the "no guidebook" ruling was made, I sincerely doubt lore being the reason in mind.

So more speculation

I wouldn't mind for an exception when it comes to lore that official guidebooks give you about their respective series imho. Comics included. We know the timeline for Legend of Zelda due to a guidebook(iirc), and I don't recall anyone ever having a problem with it being mentioned whatsoever as it wasn't being used for feats, but to tell about the timeline, something that is part of the series story.

Then please take it up to the mods that you want guidebooks allowed as and let's not play around here , it makes your DBS feat super valid . Until then, I'll stick to the rules

There is no plurals in Japanese. So technically yes and no as both words translate to the same thing in Japanese. See for yourself:

http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...a4fda5deb.html

http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...687b63115.html

http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...07888047e.html


You're trying to equate english vocabulary with Japanese mate. Not going to work. There is a reason that English is regarded as the hardest language to learn.

Cthullu already showed its easy enough to show the difference without resorting to mental gymnastics

You're basically trying to say that; "if it's not clear on whether it's a galaxy or "galaxies", then don't use it!", while trying to say that the universe should only have 4 galaxies based on......what exactly?

North Galaxy , singular

I already PM'd Guy myself. So let's just leave this here for now(and I see this getting nastier if it goes on) and let him decide. Though now that abmccray posted that page with Jaco saying there is a bunch of galaxies there is not much point on that subject. Though a ruling on whether lore from the guidebooks(not stats or anything like that, but lore that explains how the series universe works and such, not the characters themselves when it comes to their ability in combat) is acceptable or not would be fine too.

Apparently that's not an official translation . But yeah let's wait for a ruling on the guidebooks thing at least

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

My bad. I'll delete it.

Besides, I find this more damning to your rep:


cthulhusavestheworld-b.jpg

Thanks, I know you didn't mean any harm by it ... That's just one of the few things I don't joke about, ever.

AND HEY, CTHULHU SAVES THE WORLD IS A CULT CLASSIC. JUST THE WAY I LIKE IT.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

It could be official, who knows. Point was, that looks like Korean (forgive me if it's not Korean specifically but that's not Japanese). Which, while useful in the sense that it means things are being translated (neato!), you're basically then saying that the English translation of the Korean translation of the Japanese translation is immutable proof of legitimacy, despite Japanese not having a specific way of defining plurals outside of people and things like mountains (there are ways, but it requires either a counter, specific wording, etc).

Which really doesn't make a lot of sense. If I could see the page in Japanese, it'd definitely be useful. Because, depending on the way the sentence is formatted, it could be multiple galaxies. Which still doesn't exactly legitimize the feat, but it does give me something to do.

[Cody]

No, not really , I have noted it multiple times already . I'm basing it on the fact that the North Galaxy is referred to in the singular in the manga, by your own admission. I'm basing it on the fact that by your own admission , the manga talks about 4 galaxies , with " areas" and " nebulae" and whatnot

4 very large galaxies, each being the size of one fourth of an actual universe. I based this off how the Daizenshuu describes the size of the DB universe.

This seems to have been retconned however as both the DBS manga and anime mention multiple galaxies. As in; more than 4, as abmccray and Hazard pointed out, respectively.

Whether galaxies was meant to be plural or not , that's not really on my part to speculate . We work with what's stated in Rumbles , not speculation

There are either more than 4 galaxies, like our universe, or 4, really large galaxies. The guidebooks described it as the latter, while Dragonball Super manga and anime show the former.

Guide books not even entirely written by the creator are " source material " now? Goodness.

So you think all those designs of the universe from the link were just doodles of his then with no meaning behind them whatsoever, and that they used those pictures to create some sort of fanfiction, that about right?

If it's so explicitly clear , shouldn't be too difficult finding an actual example from the manga now would it ?

Aside from that when there are people in charge of a place called " North Galaxy", how many more galaxies are there, ya think?

Let's put it this way . In DC the GL corps patrols 3600 space sectors . If that was the one and only reference to how the universe works in DC , that would be that . That would be a finite universe of some 3600 parts , whose size is not really that clear cut . But we have the following things from on panel in the comics-
1) GLs don't patrol each and every sector / there are more
2) the universe in DC is shown to be " infinite", such that ones of it's very origin stories involves two infinities converging to become one
3) It has actual things like the Andromeda and Milky Way Galaxy , which show it to be a regular sized universe ( at least )

But sure , had all that not been there , we would have to be asking the same questions about it . Now if you can come up with some similarly canon stuff that easily disproves the 4 galaxies thing that would be awesome

See abmccray and Hazards posts.

Your own guidebook stuff has noted that's a sealed universe with a finite boundary

An ever expanding universe in a boundary. Same source says both things. Nice to ignore one thing and not the other amirite?

Canon sources that refer to things like a " North Galaxy " are now meaningless in light of non canon guidebooks and "areas" . Riiiight

Daizenshuu get their information from Akira, but sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night kiddo.

Heck dude if you can show me a canon definition of " North Galaxy actually means something like a galactic supercluster" like the different definition for nebula in the series , even that would be something

But all you've got is " areas". How's that meeting any standards of evidence hereabouts ?

So you like..reply to posts before reading the ones after them is that about right? You look kinda silly asking for canon outside of a guidebook when two have been posted before this post.

Please point me to any instance where I have used guidebooks as an argument for Superman or any other DC character

Never said you did. But that you wouldn't have a problem with it if the subject was about a DC character.

It's not about your opinion it's about Rumbles rules

You have no concept of irony do you? :P

For example the same guidebook that tells us Nightwing's timeline from Robin to Nightwing also tells us he is the 2nd most skilled MA artist in the DCU second only to Batman ( at a time when just as one thing , Cassandra Cain was fully active at her Batgirl peak)

So who decides what counts and what doesn't , from guidebooks??

The first is about his backstory, nothing to do with his abilities. That should be fine. The second? Talks about his abilities, which should not be allowed as it can differ from feats.

A backstory doesn't effect feats whatsoever. A statement about a persons abilities does effect feats, and are rightfully disallowed.

"bomb of raw energy?" Wow you'd say anything to make the feat count, Eh?

I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between an energy beam clash and two fists connecting.

Nik dismissed the feat as being unusable because of what it implies

He dismissed the punch feat, he never even talked about the energy struggle that we were talking about.

Is he being biased too, then? At least I tried to quantify the feat in a way that would make it usable for Rumbles . Nik straight up said it was and I quote " stupid "

When talking about the feat involving Goku and Beerus's fists connecting. You and I were talking about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J2ASqX_FO0

He talking about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxncbeyLgoE

Nice selective reading though.

How exactly is this helping your argument by bringing up other feats that are thrown out on Rumbles? Do you want the Goku feat to be thrown out too?

Me asking what you were talking about in the bits you quoted should kind of give you a hint why I brought them up.

At least you admit to some

Or lack thereof.

Source in question being a guidebook .

Now I will just be repeating myself at this point. DBS manga and anime also support there being more than 4 galaxies, so again; you saying this right after those incidents being mentioned is amusing.

Aside from that have you quite decided whether it's a physical barrier or a non -physical one with engravings floating in the sky yet ?

You realize that said barrier was by passed everal times by Vados and Champa just travelling from their universe to another. If it was completely physical, they wouldn't have gotten in now would they?

So galaxies , plural don't exist ?

In Japanese. I suggest actually reading posts you reply too.

Heck here's a simple way of showing more than one Galaxy : North, South, East, west galaxies

Which would translate to "ginga". Just like the word "galaxy" would as well.

Ring any bells ?

Considering the fact that you are still trying to equate english vocabulary to Japanese, you aren't really helping your argument here. And the further attempts at condescension just makes me take you less seriously.

What a cop out. I'm guessing you don't have to explain why you were talking about physical and non physical barriers at the same time ( to begin with ) because Nik addressed that? Oh wait, no he didn't

He addressed it when he said:

Eh, that's not really a problem in terms of our discussion.

If it is expanding or whatever, I have no problem with the Realm of the Kais just constantly being outside of the universe irrespective of it's size.

Like, I said, I'm not pretending that the cosmology of DBZ really makes any sense, I was more pointing out that it was perfectly possible for the DBZ universe to be nigh-on infinite in dimensions and still be contained with the barrier.

[Cody]

Yup



Goodness. No no no . North Galaxy . Singular

So yes; you admit to low balling the feat. You assume the galaxies are the size of real life galaxies based on....nothing at all. And that there are only four based on King Kai saying the word "ginga", which could mean either galaxy or galaxies?

Based on nothing argument. You making . " areas"=galaxies and speculation about singular/ plural . Clear ?

And you speculating that there is truly only 4 galaxies , and assume their size, based on someone saying a word that could either mean galaxy or galaxies.

That's the idea

And yet the simple act of assigning them directions gives us a number

But not the size. And the word acts as two different meanings. The fact that in the DBS anime(as Hazard pointed out) and the DBS Manga(as abmccray pointed out) say there is more than 4 galaxies...kinda supports my argument a little more don't you think?

If it's speculation to say that King Kai said "galaxies" instead of "galaxy" then so is arguing that he said "galaxy" instead of "galaxies".

So more speculation

Just looking at this, when it's right on the same page of Hazard bringing up Goku looking for Vegeta in 5 different galaxies in the anime is amusing.

Then please take it up to the mods that you want guidebooks allowed as and let's not play around here , it makes your DBS feat super valid . Until then, I'll stick to the rules

The mention of there being more than 4 galaxies in the anime and manga of DBS already supports my argument. It was episode 17, and it also showed the galaxies in question in the background.

Cthullu already showed its easy enough to show the difference without resorting to mental gymnastics

True; but with the way it was said it could still go either way("Kai of the North Galaxy", "Kai of the North Galaxies", etc).

Apparently that's not an official translation . But yeah let's wait for a ruling on the guidebooks thing at least

Anime already showed 5 galaxies while Goku was searching for Vegeta.

I don't think I'll be reading or replying to your replies until after a ruling. We are going in circles and I'm having trouble taking you seriously with your constant attempts at being condescending. Was trying to be civil, but if you're just going be childish I don't see the point in debating with you anymore.

I mean we had just added each other on our friends list. I thought that meant we had something special dammit!

[The Drunkard Kid]

The kind that's conversations are generally more ... er, well, I get royalty checks for doing things I'm not proud of.

But ... y'know, the madness of not being 100% in Japanese is kind of .. my thing.

So do I REALLY shame you?

Don't try and sugarcoat it. We are all fully aware of the videos you shot in Japan and our shame in you is as boundless as the sea.



So ashamed.

[Len Ikari145]

Don't try and sugarcoat it. We are all fully aware of the videos you shot in Japan and our shame in you is as boundless as the sea.



So ashamed.

The Squid puns. The Oh so many corny Squid puns.

And we can't forget:

char_80439.jpg

And of course, the coup de grace:

Cthuko.jpg

Seriously, what is with you and taking the form of lolis whenever you head to Japan, anyways? Just how much money were you offered to debase yourself, you miserable invertebrate? This is why you will never measure up to Nyarlathotep. You don't see my great lord selling out HIS dignity like---

nyaruko02.jpg

IT WAS A PHASE, DAMMIT! A PHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE!!!!!!!