What is ANAD? I'm Confused.

[jackolover]

It's 616 plus 8 months, plus a few characters like Squadron Supreme and Miles Morales. Most of the drastic changes happened before Secret Wars (Cap Falcon, Thor etc), the only big change that happened during Secret Wars the status of Reed (Missing? Dead?) everything else is pretty minor outside the 8 month mysteries.



This is also true, and this is a good thing.

Though I'm lost when you say you could determine the direction of the Marvel Universe in every book. I love Squirrel girl before and after Secret Wars and there's no way I could determine which way the Marvel Universe was going. The Marvel universe is really only fully connected (and even then not really) during huge events. Most of the time the connections happen in their own pockets. Avenger stuff, Spidey stuff, X stuff.

On the point of my being able to determine where the direction of Marvel is going, it's sort of like the midday drama, Days of our Lives, I compare it too. You can miss a whole 6 months, but you can pick it up right away the next episode. My own experience of the team and solo books up until Secret Wars was I had a fair sprinkling of all the books ( but only a few exceptions). Besides the status quo changes of CW Secret Invasion, Siege, FI etc, you have to remember that the underlying security of the MU was never in doubt, and characters would settle into a very similar social situation.

As ANAD opens, none of the set understandings exist anymore, like Steve Cap can be depended upon to be the leading principle of the super community. Now he's not. What fills the gap. The Fantastic Four can be sent for when Galactus arrives. Now it's Squirrel Girl. There have been shifts in the assumed roles of characters and we don't know whose taking those roles now.

[Factor]

I don't understand this thread or the general confusion regarding ANAD Marvel. It's is pretty much the same as it was before except now we have some new elements like Iso-8, some new locations like Weirdworld and some alternate universe characters are now living in the main universe (not like that hasn't been done multiple times before). That's basically the extent of the changes as far as we know. Continuity isn't anymore fractioned than before.
There are plenty of connection between books. Inhumans and X-men obviously, ANAD, Iso-8 being mentioned in all of Ewing's books, Avengers books referencing other Avengers books... I don't think I've read one book totally removed from the others. All the ones I read stand on their own, but the sense of a shared universe was there.

[jackolover]

With the possible exception of the summoning of Moridun from the fifth cosmos, and the availability of Iso-8 as a power up for both good and bad guys, I'm not sure the ANAD Marvel Universe is significantly more dangerous than before. At least it's not under constant threat of Incursions.

And there may not be any overarching event or theme going on in the ANAD books so far, like a Civil War or a Dark Reign, other than the ongoing issues with an increased number of Inhumans and the effects of the T-mist on mutants (and that really only covered in the Inhumans and X-books), but that's not really such a new thing. Besides, I'm sure we'll get some big new event before long, in the meantime it's fine that each writer is able to go in their own direction. The Marvel Universe is big, there's plenty of room for different things to be going on in different corners of it, and not everything needs to interrelate or cross-reference all the time. Besides, it's not like there have been any noticeable contradictions between different titles as to what's going on, it's just that everybody's not crossing over constantly in a single event right now.

As for inability to remember what the stories are in various titles, I recommend reading for detail, and being unable to anticipate the next story twist should be a welcome novelty at this point. That you were able to before may be an indicator that the earlier plots were too stale and predictable.

Too stale and predictable is an issue because I did complain at the sameness of a lot of what went on before Civil War, and ANAD does have the appearance of pre-CW stability, but there the resemblance ends. If we were to compare pre-CW to ANAD apart from the splintered out-reaches of the universe in Battlerealm, (Contest of Champions), the rest of the Universe looks fairly comparable, minus, the FF and their main antagonist Dr Doom, and a host of replacement legacy characters who we have no idea will fill the vacancies of the originals, and, a lot of Inhumans that never existed before. It's a little unsettling in the way the balance of expected behaviour has been overturned.

[Abe]

Yeah, there is not many of them left in that pic is there? The ones gone:
Reed
Namor
Bruce Hulk
Steve Cap
Don Thor
And the X-Men unrecognisable from their starts
Ben in space
Johnny in Inhumans
Doom is a handsome man

Wow. Nicely observed. I love it... I haven't look that close to the image before posting. It was just so pertinent and sarcastic ! Now it's really perfect. ( Kirby's cosmology is missing too in ANAD btw. And Ewing's explanations don't help me to appreciate what I've read yet...)

A few more words : first, some Latverian will argue that Doom was always a handsome man ! Alternate-Sue thinks so. It's obvious. Inner beauty - and nobility of the posture, always. Tony is still there. But not in the same position ! And to conclude : who is the guy riding a Pegasus ?

[jackolover]

I don't understand this thread or the general confusion regarding ANAD Marvel. It's is pretty much the same as it was before except now we have some new elements like Iso-8, some new locations like Weirdworld and some alternate universe characters are now living in the main universe (not like that hasn't been done multiple times before). That's basically the extent of the changes as far as we know. Continuity isn't anymore fractioned than before.
There are plenty of connection between books. Inhumans and X-men obviously, ANAD, Iso-8 being mentioned in all of Ewing's books, Avengers books referencing other Avengers books... I don't think I've read one book totally removed from the others. All the ones I read stand on their own, but the sense of a shared universe was there.

Shared universe yes, not the same characters though. I'd say the Avengers were more like the cooky quartet than the big 3, and I think we've seen the last of the Hulk on any Avengers.

Think the difference between some of us and others, is that some people are able to accept changes to the ANAD and it doesn't phase them. Maybe because they don't have an investment in the previous status quo before Secret Wars. But those of us who did have an investment in the previous way the 616 ran, have noticed a difference in the power levels of a Odinson vs. Jane Thor, or a Steve Cap and a Sam Cap. There are significant variations in the way they will behave depending on the situation. We've already seen an Inverted Sam Wilson throw away his principles, and Jane Thor is like a child before threats an eons old Odinson has fought countless times. You let the whole of the Magical threats loose in the ANAD because Dr Strange can't cast spells, and, leave the FF's role vacant to be filled with AIM, and the whole 616 is turned on its end, to my mind.

[cyberhubbs]

Still the same place it was before Secret Wars. Folks aren't meeting each other for the first time again, therefore not a reboot. A few heroes and villains ended up in the main universe post-SW, alternate universe refugees If you will.

[jackolover]

1) Printing a diverse line of books that appeals to a broad spectrum of readers seems like a sensible business approach, no?

2) This statement doesn't make any sense. If you used to be able to anticipate where every book was going, that seems like awfully boring, predictable storytelling - not the kind of reading experience I'd be chasing after. If you simply are saying you can't remember what was in the newest books that you read, I'd say that's just on you. I know exactly what's going on with the books I'm reading and am looking forward to what's next. If you're saying there's no "direction" to the MU, then it sounds like you're just wanting everything to be constantly moving to the next event without a moment's rest. The books are just coming off of SW and most ANAD titles have had only one or two issues at most with many more not even having debuted yet. Wanting to know what the "direction" is at this point is absurd. If the books I'm reading are engaging in and off themselves and I'm enjoying the characters and the art, then that's all I need. If I read Vision, or Captain America or Thor, I'm not judging them by the criteria of how heavily each book is tied into the direction of the larger MU, I'm judging based on the quality of the individual issue.

On point 1, it is a sensible business approach.

On point 2, the quality of the individual issue can be dictated by what goes on around it. If the FF don't make an appearance, the New Avengers face something they have no idea what to do with, and the Universe explodes. It did with plant man, and 50 years later Cable has to fix it. These sorts of things could happen a lot more regularly now. Everybody eaten by plants. Of cause time travel will fix it, but it never should have got this far. We are into issue 2 of some ANAD books and the planet has already been destroyed once. If this is the trend of ANAD it will collapse into cycles of destruction to the point it could become unstable. I don't know. Maybe that would be preferable to a securely predictable state.

[jackolover]

Secret Wars was not a reboot. The higher ups at Marvel have said so, Hickman has said so, Dan Slott has said so. It isn't a reboot.

It is the same timeline you were reading about a year ago just with 16 months added on (8 months leading to Secret Wars, 8 months since Secret Wars). There are more alternate reality characters now but that is nothing new or really noteworthy in and of itself. There are, potentially, fewer universes but that too isn't that noteworthy. The numbering of said universe has changed, so now Earth 616 is Universe 8.



Avengers: Standoff is the first event and is set to begin in March.

Where did you get the reference to universe 8 from?

[jackolover]

Wow. Nicely observed. I love it... I haven't look that close to the image before posting. It was just so pertinent and sarcastic ! Now it's really perfect. ( Kirby's cosmology is missing too in ANAD btw. And Ewing's explanations don't help me to appreciate what I've read yet...)

A few more words : first, some Latverian will argue that Doom was always a handsome man ! Alternate-Sue thinks so. It's obvious. Inner beauty - and nobility of the posture, always. Tony is still there. But not in the same position ! And to conclude : who is the guy riding a Pegasus ?

I think it's the Black Knight riding the Pegesus.

[Factor]

The changes really do not bother me at all for the most part. I've been reading comics long enough to know most of them are cyclical, only few will really stick around. And if they do, it's totally fine. I for one am glad not everything is spinning around the same straight white males. I don't get complaints about how characters are not the same as they were in the 60s. Do people really want that kind of stagnation?

[jackolover]

Still the same place it was before Secret Wars. Folks aren't meeting each other for the first time again, therefore not a reboot. A few heroes and villains ended up in the main universe post-SW, alternate universe refugees If you will.

I am particularly disturbed by the villains, (maybe that's too strong a word - maybe, really intrigued), because there is an apparent confidence in their swagger at this very early stage, with comments like the Hood saying the villains are winning, and the Maker being unperturbed by being thwarted, and just continuing on. Maybe it's nothing. But what if it is? What if not just the Triskelion was brought over from the Ultimate Universe, and we get cycles of Earth collapses like Ultimates did?

[jackolover]

The changes really do not bother me at all for the most part. I've been reading comics long enough to know most of them are cyclical, only few will really stick around. And if they do, it's totally fine. I for one am glad not everything is spinning around the same straight white males. I don't get complaints about how characters are not the same as they were in the 60s. Do people really want that kind of stagnation?

Yes, that's a fair point. No we don't want stagnation, but how out of our comfort zone do we want to step? It's predictable to have the same characters deal with dangerous situations all the time. It's bewildering if different characters are stuck with those dangerous situations. That's how I felt in the early days of the Silver Age when I didn't know how Cap and Thor would handle situations.

I suppose it's more to do with accepting a fresh set of characters can stand up in dangerous situations when they haven't been tested. That the classic characters are still around, makes me think, why don't they step in and take over. If Marvel wanted this ANAD to be a fresh bloodying of untested characters, maybe they should have removed the classics?

Look at the way Jack Kirby portrayed Steve Cap and Thor. Both men had been through wars for a long time and seen death ruitinely. But look at Jane Thor. She's a doctor, she helps people, and doesn't bash them over the head to death. Did anybody else think Sam Wilson decapitated that family when he threw his shield through the window of their car in ANAD#1? I did.

[Factor]

Yes, that's a fair point. No we don't want stagnation, but how out of our comfort zone do we want to step? It's predictable to have the same characters deal with dangerous situations all the time. It's bewildering if different characters are stuck with those dangerous situations. That's how I felt in the early days of the Silver Age when I didn't know how Cap and Thor would handle situations.

I suppose it's more to do with accepting a fresh set of characters can stand up in dangerous situations when they haven't been tested. That the classic characters are still around, makes me think, why don't they step in and take over. If Marvel wanted this ANAD to be a fresh bloodying of untested characters, maybe they should have removed the classics?

I think the unpredictability is part of the point. It usually makes for more compelling stories.
And as for removing the classics, they kind of did that with some characters (Wolverine), but to remove them en masse would probably generate more anger from the more conservative fans and would stop them from trying unique new directions with these older characters. I for one would rather have unworthy Thor than just have him being killed off while Jane has the hammer. Same with Steve. Having him die again would be so repetitive. The rivalry with Sam could actually lead to some interesting stories and not just retreads of ones already told in recent years.

[ImprobableQuestion]

Yeah, there is not many of them left in that pic is there? The ones gone:
Reed
Namor
Bruce Hulk
Steve Cap
Don Thor
And the X-Men unrecognisable from their starts
Ben in space
Johnny in Inhumans
Doom is a handsome man

Those characters aren't "gone," they're "different." And most of the differencea have occurred in the last few years. You act as though there was everything since the 40's, and now, and that everything was exactly the same until now. It wasn't. You and Leap Year et al are really invested in Marvel's pre Secret Wars hype about "nothing being the same," but you're looking for changes that arent there.

[ImprobableQuestion]

On point 2, the quality of the individual issue can be dictated by what goes on around it. If the FF don't make an appearance, the New Avengers face something they have no idea what to do with, and the Universe explodes. It did with plant man, and 50 years later Cable has to fix it. These sorts of things could happen a lot more regularly now.

What about the other thousand or so times the Avengers were able to save the world without the Four's help?