New Avengers #17 - Summary and Review *SPOILERS*

[Juggernaut Punch]

Summary

On the world of the Great Society, the Mapmakers have landed. The Great Society take some hits, but Sun-God is able to destroy them. This buys them only a momentary peace however, as another Incursion follows rapidly.

Meanwhile, Namor and the Black Panther share Atlantean wine, and discuss what they have seen, what it means to them, and how they became shells of who they used to be. A camaraderie thought dead is re-ignited, but the two are jolted back into reality, as they realize that what they are seeing is no longer a past event, but two hours into their future, when the Great Society is confronted by the Illuminati.

Review

A great issue of New Avengers to go with the great issue of Avengers. It does a great job of contrasting the fatalist attitude of the Illuminati, with the hopefulness of the Great Society. The talk between Namor and Black Panther was great, and watching them bond again was pretty sweet. This issue mostly sets up for the coming battle with the Great Society, and it does a pretty good job of that while doing some character building. The art is swell throughout, and compliments the story very well, even if it's not as dark and foreboding as New Avengers art usually is.

[Tony Stark]

I loved this issue. I really enjoyed BP and Namor talking about what they have been through and what was yet still to come. Just 2 great characters and Hickman doing his thing.

[DT Winslow]

I have really enjoyed this arc. Looking at all the different Illuminati's thru the multiverse has been an interesting ride. But I am hoping its over. If the two books can dovetail together and show us more of the mapmakers and the others (I'm not in front of an issue and I don't feel like looking). I run hot and cold on Simone Bianche, his three issues were cold for me. But I still enjoy the concept on display.

But anyway...

Fun issue. The battle with the Great Society looks to be an interesting dichotomy. I've enjoyed the interplay between Namor and T'Challa. Hickman highlights that these two kings are very much alike and that's why they fight. Their bonding here is showing, I think, that they are seeing it as well.

Converse to you, my Punchy friend, I feel that Rags was not on his best. His Society pages are great, but the last half Namor and T'Challa look... off. Heads swell and shrink, bodies lose all proportions. Namor's ears radically change size throughout the issue. This is a far cry from the Rags Morales of Hourman. Hell, this is a far cry from the Rags on Facebook. His sketches there have been great, but this issue, not so much.

This has been a transitory arc, moving us from phase one into phase two. For the arc, I'd give it a B-. It could be two arcs, one three issues, one two issues.

This issue, B+.

[Mr MajestiK]

I loved this issue. I really enjoyed BP and Namor talking about what they have been through and what was yet still to come. Just 2 great characters and Hickman doing his thing.

Agreed my dear friend.

Seeing Namor and T'Challa discussing how circumstances had changed them so badly made for a refreshing change of pace and I for one, genuinely hope that the Atlantis/Wakanda conflict ends now and that Shuri is made aware of what's really going on with the Incursions in much the same way as has been the case for Dr Banner.

All in all, a rather satisfying issue.

[zlbenson]

The art was serviceable, but I do like it more than Bianchi (his Dr Strange excluded - I think he does excellent Dr Strange work). But really this was a great issue. Hickman does so well with these characters and very much looking forward to the addition of Banner.

[Daeron]

Converse to you, my Punchy friend, I feel that Rags was not on his best. His Society pages are great, but the last half Namor and T'Challa look... off. Heads swell and shrink, bodies lose all proportions. Namor's ears radically change size throughout the issue. This is a far cry from the Rags Morales of Hourman. Hell, this is a far cry from the Rags on Facebook. His sketches there have been great, but this issue, not so much.

I agree about Namor and TÇhalla. While I love the interaction, they really lack a certain something. Hard to put my finger on it, I would call it lacking a look of sovereignty which those two should always radiate IMO.

[XPac]

I have really enjoyed this arc. Looking at all the different Illuminati's thru the multiverse has been an interesting ride. But I am hoping its over. If the two books can dovetail together and show us more of the mapmakers and the others (I'm not in front of an issue and I don't feel like looking). I run hot and cold on Simone Bianche, his three issues were cold for me. But I still enjoy the concept on display.

But anyway...

Fun issue. The battle with the Great Society looks to be an interesting dichotomy. I've enjoyed the interplay between Namor and T'Challa. Hickman highlights that these two kings are very much alike and that's why they fight. Their bonding here is showing, I think, that they are seeing it as well.

Converse to you, my Punchy friend, I feel that Rags was not on his best. His Society pages are great, but the last half Namor and T'Challa look... off. Heads swell and shrink, bodies lose all proportions. Namor's ears radically change size throughout the issue. This is a far cry from the Rags Morales of Hourman. Hell, this is a far cry from the Rags on Facebook. His sketches there have been great, but this issue, not so much.

This has been a transitory arc, moving us from phase one into phase two. For the arc, I'd give it a B-. It could be two arcs, one three issues, one two issues.

This issue, B+.

I think showing the incursion from the perspective other than the Illuminati's was such a necessary thing to do in a story like this, because it's so easy to just sympathize and root solely for the stars of the book. If the Illuminati aren't lobbed a soft ball in this one, and they're forced to kill the Great Society's world, then it'll actually mean something.

I frankly thought they over-dramatized destroying the dead world in the Latverian incursion a BIT... but this time, when they say they're different people it'll be true IF it happens. If they murder billions of people, that's putting a lot of blood on their hands that they're likely never going to be able to wash away, regardless of how many people they will save down the line.

[DT Winslow]

I think showing the incursion from the perspective other than the Illuminati's was such a necessary thing to do in a story like this, because it's so easy to just sympathize and root solely for the stars of the book. If the Illuminati aren't lobbed a soft ball in this one, and they're forced to kill the Great Society's world, then it'll actually mean something.

I frankly thought they over-dramatized destroying the dead world in the Latverian incursion a BIT... but this time, when they say they're different people it'll be true IF it happens. If they murder billions of people, that's putting a lot of blood on their hands that they're likely never going to be able to wash away, regardless of how many people they will save down the line.

Right, and I think that's one of the things that makes this a transitory arc. We need to see how another, similar team, for whom we also root, deals with the situations. They had more experience than our team and lost. Hell, I think the Illuminati needed this arc more than we did. "We are not the only us dealing with this. Other us-es lost. We sympathize. Oops, now we need to kill them to survive." Its gonna be gut wrenching. I can't wait!

[vitruvian]

I think showing the incursion from the perspective other than the Illuminati's was such a necessary thing to do in a story like this, because it's so easy to just sympathize and root solely for the stars of the book. If the Illuminati aren't lobbed a soft ball in this one, and they're forced to kill the Great Society's world, then it'll actually mean something.

I frankly thought they over-dramatized destroying the dead world in the Latverian incursion a BIT... but this time, when they say they're different people it'll be true IF it happens. If they murder billions of people, that's putting a lot of blood on their hands that they're likely never going to be able to wash away, regardless of how many people they will save down the line.

If they actually choose to fight the Great Society and destroy their world and its population, rather than at least try to work with them to save both worlds (or at least both sets of people, the Illuminati do have a spare planet at the moment and more than enough Dyson sphere to house trillions), then they will have become villains. It's one thing to pull that trigger if there is really no other alternative, but if you ignore the alternatives provided by a set of potential allies like that, that you know from observation have succeeded in saving their world multiple times in multiple ways.... there would really be no excuse.

[Drz]

Loving Hickman's Justice League.

[XPac]

If they actually choose to fight the Great Society and destroy their world and its population, rather than at least try to work with them to save both worlds (or at least both sets of people, the Illuminati do have a spare planet at the moment and more than enough Dyson sphere to house trillions), then they will have become villains. It's one thing to pull that trigger if there is really no other alternative, but if you ignore the alternatives provided by a set of potential allies like that, that you know from observation have succeeded in saving their world multiple times in multiple ways.... there would really be no excuse.

Though a fight is pretty much a given (it's what Avengers and Justice League analogues pretty much always do), I do think we can expect at least some attempt at working together to spare both worlds before it comes down to one world or another. I think they'll at least TRY.

Though I wonder how BP and Namor seeing themselves 2 hours in the future will effect what they know and what they try to do. Could be one of those time things where seeing what they're going to do will essentially get them to do it in the first place.

[Vic Vega]

The biggest revelation this issue happened in the Avengers.

The Hulk is now part of the Illuminati. Which I guess means that Hulk's Joe Fixit/Green Scar/Worldbreaker
persona has been lost as I don't see that guy ever working with the Illuminati.

I'm interested in seeing how this will play out, because unless I missed something, Hulk isn't even the sercet member that Reed and Tony have been alluding to.

[Wolvie616]

I'm pretty stoked to see Hulk and Doc Strange take people on. I was wondering how they were going to handle fighting a Superman AND a MM, and Hulk definitely helps in that regard.

[Juggernaut Punch]

The biggest revelation this issue happened in the Avengers.

The Hulk is now part of the Illuminati. Which I guess means that Hulk's Joe Fixit/Green Scar/Worldbreaker
persona has been lost as I don't see that guy ever working with the Illuminati.

I'm interested in seeing how this will play out, because unless I missed something, Hulk isn't even the sercet member that Reed and Tony have been alluding to.

His personas come and go. Green Scar made his peace with the individual Illuminati members, just as Banner did. Given the situation, he'd probably have reacted the same way Banner did in this issue.

[Dabrikishaw]

I really liked Black Panther and Namor's chat, it seems those 2 are close to mending their problems with each other.