New Avengers #17 - Summary and Review *SPOILERS*

[Dabpool]

Does any one know the connection between The Noan wearing the same mask as the black priest? I'm thinking it's a version of the eye of agamotto but why would a member of the great society have the artifacts of a multiverse threat?

[People Of The Earth]

Actually the Great Society has an interesting phrasing of the dangers of the Multiverse incursions:

"What do you think is going to happen if we have to face Black Priests this time? My g*d, what if it's an Ivory King? What then?"

From Black Swan's perspective perhaps due to direct confrontation the Black Priests are the big bad, but the Great Society believes just one Ivory King is an unimaginable danger.

Adaptoids, evolution, science, their peak is the Mapmakers. Magic, it's peak is the Black Priests. What in the current Marvel 616 universe can be extrapolated to be an Ivory King?

It wouldn't surprised me that much if they were super-Evolved versions of our Illuminati or something along those lines...

[brainwasher]

Anyone else feel that way? Granted, we haven't see the Ivory Kings yet, nor the Great Destroyer, but the way the Black Swan referred to these menaces that would be major threats to the heroes lead me to believe something bigger was coming. Sure, they're strong enough to take/destroy the Earth under the right circumstances, but they would get crushed by the 616 abstracts.

Consider that we also learned that Black Swan is telling them lot of lies in order to make them behave like she wants (thinking there is no other way around the problem than killing the other world when an incursion presents). She seems to know everything but, for example, she hasn't said to them who the MapMakers really are (it's been revelead this week in Avengers World but I won't say here, maybe it's not the right thread).

[brainwasher]

Does any one know the connection between The Noan wearing the same mask as the black priest? I'm thinking it's a version of the eye of agamotto but why would a member of the great society have the artifacts of a multiverse threat?

There may be many explanations. The simpler, he took it from a dead Priest from a previous incursion and learned how to use it. Or in their world Map Makers already visited earth before incursions. Or maybe these masks are a different version of some magic artifact that exists in 616 universe too and we already know, I don't know if this can an Eye of Agamotto though because there is a lot of these masks (but honestly I don't know how many eyes agamotto has so…)

[ShaokhaN]

Personally, I just interpreted it as him going down the path which led other sorcerers to become full-time Black Priests.

[Juggernaut Punch]

Seeing as how the Norn used the magic of the Black Priests to summon alternate versions of himself to use in the spell, is it possible that the Black Priests are all alternate versions of one person? Doc Strange maybe?

[MindofShadow]

Personally, I just interpreted it as him going down the path which led other sorcerers to become full-time Black Priests.

Me too.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the "out" this incursion. Norn goes full black priest which leads to the destruction of the GS world (somehow) and the NA have to fight to kill him before he goes after the other earth (or summons more BP).


Or Strange. It is time to see how powerful Strange really is now.

[John Ossie]

Did I really need to read Avengers first just because Hulk shows up in 1 panel set in the future?

Yep you did.

Or Strange. It is time to see how powerful Strange really is now.

I think we'll get that either in the next issue or the one after that.

[XPac]

I'm actually kind of hoping some of the animosity still sticks.


Namor and T'Challa are both complex characters. With Black Bolt apparently dead, they're the only two that really understand the pain each other feels. So they can laugh. They should be friends.

They should also still want to kill each other, because that is what being a monarch demands. There's friendship, and then there's duty.

I think the idea is to get Namor and T'Challa in a better place right before the Original sin stuff. That way any dirty laundry which might be revealed will have maximum effect. If they already hated each other, any story impact would be negligable.

That said, even if things get worse between them I do honestly think they can resolve their issues. Whether their people can do the same is a different matter entirely. And it the case of Wakanda, it's really less T'Challa being able to move on and more Shuri, since she's the one that's actually in charge.

[XPac]

Three other things:

1) Is anyone else a bit annoyed that the Great Society apparently managed to deal with Incursions more creatively than the Illuminati? Not in terms of the Norn using the words of power against worlds used by the Mapmakers, but, as the Rider mentions in NA #16, by "moving a planet through time -- fracturing and then resealing the breach". I mean they don't seem to have any scientist among them, or if they do I find it a bit of a stretch that this (or these) scientist(s) would be more intelligent than Reed/Stark/McCoy/T'Challa (and now Maximus) put together. Ok, that's a minor gripe coming from a Reed fanboy ,-)

2) In Avengers #4, the narrator tells part of the backstory of Hyperion, and says "he saw the great society they had built, but he also saw the people". Could there be a link with this new Great Society team? Ok, probably a coincidence. [edit: also, in Avengers #13, the High Evolutionary calls Hyperion "Sun God".]

3) It seems weird to me that the current members of the Great Society were apparently "outcasts" (NA #16) on their world prior to their Skull/Kree invasion. Why would that be, according to you?

I do agree the Great Society seemingly have come up with more options than the Illuminati have. I won't necessarily hold it against them up to this point... but now that they know there are in fact other options, I do expect them to begin at least attempting to impliment them. They now know it CAN be done, and there are certainly enough plot devices in the 616 to make really almost anything theoretically possible.

[XPac]

Hmm, kings ruling from an ivory tower, ivory kings. Sounds familiar if put in such a context. It might be relevant considering we've seen multiple versions of the illuminati across the multiverse.




1) It looks like they've been dealing with incursions on their world for a lot longer than the ones in 616. But at least one of those solutions could have been done with the Infinity Gauntlet. It might have been hubris by Captain America to go for 'pushing' an entire freaking universe away while there are more delicate solutions at hand. But then they had little time and might not have been sure on what would work anyway.

As far as Steve using the gems... he (and the rest of them for that matter) obviously didn't know that the gems would be destroyed. In fact we're flat out told that it's not possible to destroy the gems so he had no reason to think that would happen.

From their perspective, I think they assumed if one option didn't work they could simply try another with the gems, and then another until something did work. They had no way of knowing it was a one shot deal. That was just a curve ball Hickman threw in there.

[The_Panther]

As far as Steve using the gems... he (and the rest of them for that matter) obviously didn't know that the gems would be destroyed. In fact we're flat out told that it's not possible to destroy the gems so he had no reason to think that would happen.

From their perspective, I think they assumed if one option didn't work they could simply try another with the gems, and then another until something did work. They had no way of knowing it was a one shot deal. That was just a curve ball Hickman threw in there.

But the TIME GEM still exists. That's a nice piece of PIS right there.

[UltimateTy]

The Time Gem reappears in Avengers #30

Newsarama has a preview up

[Mr MajestiK]

I'm actually kind of hoping some of the animosity still sticks.


Namor and T'Challa are both complex characters. With Black Bolt apparently dead, they're the only two that really understand the pain each other feels. So they can laugh. They should be friends.

They should also still want to kill each other, because that is what being a monarch demands. There's friendship, and then there's duty.

Well, considering what secrets will probably come out in Aaron's Original Sin event I'm sure both characters will be out for each others blood thus further extending the nonsense that took place during of AvX. <shrugs shoulders>

[ShaokhaN]

By the way, do you guys think Hickman will tie this further with his FF run? He already took the bridge technology from there, but his run ended with the adult Valeria Richards using the Council of Reeds' omniversal base to conduct her research... And given that it would be a bit weird for all of the omniversal stuff going on in this arc not to be noticed from that base, I wonder if he's going to mention her at all.