Is it true that Kingdom Come MUST be done with Alex Ross's style to do it justice? I disagree.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

I just recently reread the Alex Ross's masterful "Kingdom Come", and, like with his his Marvel epic Earth/Universe/Paradise X, I seriously want to see this thing animated. However, unlike the latter, KC is done entirely in Ross's painted, photo realistic style, which was a major part of what made the story the attraction that it still is, and that is something that can't be captured in 2D animation. The only way to do it would be CGI, and, when I say CGI, I mean Batman Arkham series level CGI...but that would be stupid expensive, and would have to be treated as a major theatrical release.

The thing is, while I agree that Ross's style can't be done in 2D, I do think that if it was to be done, at all, it'd need to be done in an epic scope, and great, dynamic animation...and USA 2D animation simply isn't good enough, or maybe it's that it's not taken seriously enough, to do such an epic story justice. That doesn't meant that there wasn't been awesome 2D animated movies created in the US, but when compared to Japanese animation it simply doesn't compare.

And that brings me to the point of this topic. Now BEFORE you simply jump ship, and call me a blasphemist, could you at least listen, and look at, what I'm trying to get across to you? Please?

With that out of the way....yes, I'm saying that I believe that Kingdom Come would be better served if animated by a Japanese animation company working closely with a Bruce Timm.

Here's the thing tho, for some reason, in the comic book community, and the US in general, Japanese manga, and animation, is either taboo, or dismissed. As someone who is a fan of both styles, I don't really understand how this is the case. Now, don't get me wrong, there's a lot of weird stuff that goes on in Japanese manga and anime, and I'd hardly call myself a "true" fan of it, as I have my issues with the general direction that the genre seems to be wanting to go in; a more mainstream, and "cute", direction.

Still, while anime certainly is eccentric, and exaggerated, to say the least, I don't think it can be debated that Japanese animation is just leagues above western animation when it wants to.

This here is a scene in an anime called "One Punch Man", which is a parody/satire on the Superman-power set, superheroes, and action anime in general, where the main character destroys a meteor in one punch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUT4_Tynw0I

Here's another clip of an animated racing movie called "Redline", which I dub "F-Zero on LSD" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3hggcC10Ks

They also do a better job of capturing emotion, and atmosphere, and if you've seen any Miyazaki/Studio Ghibli film, then you'd know this is true. This clip is from an anime movie called "Wolf Children", which is about a woman who was in a relationship with a man with lycanthrope abilities, he died after their second child was born, and she has to try to raise two children with the ability to transform into a wolves, and humanoid wolves, as well as keep their powers secret from the general public. The clip shows one of the happiest moments in the movie, in which the family of three enjoy playing in the snow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea3fxOZer9

I'd say that wrecks Frozen in almost every way possible.

Even in Naruto, an anime that I very much dislike, can make fight scene, of which the build up to was butchered to high hell, very exciting and dynamic, such as in the very popular Kakashi vs Obito fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylBQVeh8L6s

Now that's just the exaggerated, and stylized, stuff. Kingdom Come has a style based wholly in realism.

Japanese anime can do that as well.

Ghost in the Shell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS3PGKUiSco

Ghost in the Shell - Innocence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJnjmu-NAaY

Jin Roh - The Wolf Bridgade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lrl5Kj79u4

Mobile Suit Gundam Thunderbolt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMqu...x974FuC4FJpkug

Mind you, most of these are direct-to-bluray/dvd, or television shows, and yet they have better animation than most 2D western properties.

I feel that if DC worked closely enough with the Japanese character designers of, say, Bones, or MadHouse, or I.G, or Sunrise, to keep it as close to an American/Western style of design, but with the flare, fluidity, speed, and detail of Japanese animation, I think we could get a very good adaptation of Kingdom Come with 2D animation. While it would feel like a different experience without Ross's awesome style, and think that you can still create the epic feel of the story.

Thoughts?

[dancj]

I don't think most people would find anything here controversial. A lot of people actually consider Ross's art to be badly suited to the story anyway.

I don't think it can be debated that Japanese animation is just leagues above western animation when it wants to.

I'm pretty sure that means the opposite of what you're saying. I think the word you want is "disputed"

[SmokeMonster]

Not a fan of Alex Ross or Japanese Animation

[DrNewGod]

You can certainly animate Kingdom Come's story. I don't think you can really capture it for two reasons:
1) While Ross' work ain't everybody's cup'a, it's very well suited to stories grounded in nostalgia for the crowd born before 1980, and that style will be hard to animate well.
2) We're a lot further from the DCU that KC nostalgically references than we were when it was published. It doesn't resonate the way that it did at the time. Especially since there have been so many hero v. hero conflicts since then. It would be hard not to make it look like a Civil War knockoff these days.

[gbryantlucas]

You can certainly animate Kingdom Come's story. I don't think you can really capture it for two reasons:
1) While Ross' work ain't everybody's cup'a, it's very well suited to stories grounded in nostalgia for the crowd born before 1980, and that style will be hard to animate well.
2) We're a lot further from the DCU that KC nostalgically references than we were when it was published. It doesn't resonate the way that it did at the time. Especially since there have been so many hero v. hero conflicts since then. It would be hard not to make it look like a Civil War knockoff these days.

Alas... I agree. I love Kingdom Come, but unfortunately I'm afraid that it's become dated. It's rooted in a time (the gritty 90's) where legacy characters had taken over the DCU. It was a brilliant, beautiful critique of comics industry at the time. I don't think it would resonate, unless you tweaked the story to reflect the older heroes to reflect the Pre-Flashpoint incarnation of the DCU. That might work as it would pander to a subset of DC's fan base that are nostalgic for that particular period. However, by doing something like this, you'd essentially would be telling a different story.

[manofsteel1979]

Yeah, Kingdom Come is purely a product of it's time and it's relationship to the 90's. I love it for what it is,but it wouldn't work today in printed form for a lot of reasons, let alone in animation.

I do agree though Alex Ross is a little overrated. Kingdom Come is the only place I can take his version of Superman as in the story he's supposed to look like an old man. Ross' Superman always looks like an overly bulked up 45-50 year old man. The one in Kingdom Come just has more grey in his hair and the darker costume. I appreciate his craft and i dig some of his covers and conceptual work,but his style really doesn't suit sequential storytelling that well.

[Pharozonk]

I actually think the style Ross uses compliments the story very well. Ross is known for depicting the heroes as larger than life, almost mythic in their look. The story is meant to be treatise on the nature of comics in that era and Ross' artwork gives the story the epic feel that's fitting for such a story.

[Lightning Rider]

I actually think the style Ross uses compliments the story very well. Ross is known for depicting the heroes as larger than life, almost mythic in their look. The story is meant to be treatise on the nature of comics in that era and Ross' artwork gives the story the epic feel that's fitting for such a story.

Absolutely.

[Choos]

Hi HeWhoSlapsAll,

/agree 100%

Recently watched Superman Unbound and now believe if you are not looking for Jhonen Vasquez art style in animation then all animation projects should first be offered to Madhouse and having Bruce Timm attached would make it perfection.

I get it I am late to the party, I should have held this opinion from the the disgraceful Dragonlance movie but better late than never!

[Outside_85]

If I am honest, the story of Kingdom Come is for me held up in huge parts because of Alex Ross' art, the story itself isn't all that great, especially for an animation project in mind because it time-skips quite a lot and is partly told in the 3rd person perspective of the Spectre's traveling companion.

However, I could imagine spin-off series set in this world, perhaps putting it just after Superman's disappearance where one could learn how many of the older heroes reacted to it. Or set it after the events of KC and see how the world moved on from what happened... and for gods sake avoid making it into Injustice.

[t hedge coke]

I honestly prefer must of the artists from The Kingdom to Ross' sequential art in Kingdom Come. Ross is talented and he can channel many elements into a stronger whole, but in KC, especially, background gags seem to take precedent over anything in terms of symbolism or reference that contributes to a greater whole, that resonates with the comics' themes and concerns, aside from a few vague Christian elements and the stabs at eagles and lightning.