The Killing Joke: Are all the theories wrong?

[Rikdad]

Many people consider The Killing Joke to be one of the greatest stories ever, but the writer himself didn't agree. Grant Morrison and I both had pet theories about this work, but they both seem to be incorrect or overstated. Why so many differences of opinion about one very memorable work?

http://rikdad.blogspot.com/2015/11/r...ling-joke.html

[t hedge coke]

Why so many differences of opinion about one very memorable work?

Because it's a collection of very evocative events, visuals, and concepts, none of which really get a followthrough in the comic, very carefully drawn and delineated. It encourages us to read into it, to fill in the blanks, and to give it meaning it "must" have do to the quality of its illustrations and names attached to it, from Batman to Moore.

And, I mean that in the best ways. If Batman and the Joker were John and Susan, and it was written under an alias, with illustrations by a lesser talent, it probably wouldn't mean much to anyone. It'd be a vaguely interesting little horror comic. And, if it had more followthrough than it does, on its ideas or tragedies, the elaborated versions would probably just be prosaic to everyone.

[JBatmanFan05]

Great article, and Rik, we very much agree that we don't agree with Grant Morrison's (and others') interpretation of the ending that Joker gets killed. You listed all the various reasons against that interpretation perfectly.

Moore's rep (for doing bold things) & his prior work (full of hidden little things) & how the story was written are why there are so many different theories. And I think the differences of opinion on the quality of it have a lot to do with the modern reevaluation of that darker period in comics and modern sensibilities and our pc culture.

I love TKJ myself, I credit it for being so memorable with so few pages. You can't blame it for not being longer (so that it could explore this or that), it was meant to be a short little one-shot. Moore drinks haterade all day, so it means little to mean that he doesn't like it. It almost feels like he judges it by Watchmen standards when it need not be compared to that or V or etc. It's Batman vs Joker done in some new and reflective ways, it's got some wonderful nuances and emotion to it. Moore did an amazing job of adding some depth to Joker's character, make you think about the character in ways you never thought to.

[Deniz Camp]

That it can be read in multiple ways is one of it's (unintended, I think) strengths.

Alan Moore's intention is now unambiguous. He states it explicitly.

" And David, for the record, my intention at the end of that book was to have the two characters simply experiencing a brief moment of lucidity in their ongoing very weird and probably fatal relationship with each other, reaching a moment where they both perceive the hell that they are in, and can only laugh at their preposterous situation. A similar chuckle is shared by the doomed couple at the end of the remarkable Jim Thompson’s original novel, The Getaway."

That doesn't make it 'the right' interpretation, though. Just the author's intention.

[Confuzzled]

That it can be read in multiple ways is one of it's (unintended, I think) strengths.

Alan Moore's intention is now unambiguous. He states it explicitly.

" And David, for the record, my intention at the end of that book was to have the two characters simply experiencing a brief moment of lucidity in their ongoing very weird and probably fatal relationship with each other, reaching a moment where they both perceive the hell that they are in, and can only laugh at their preposterous situation. A similar chuckle is shared by the doomed couple at the end of the remarkable Jim Thompson’s original novel, The Getaway."

That doesn't make it 'the right' interpretation, though. Just the author's intention.

That's pretty much what I interpreted it as.

[Johnny Thunders!]

By now I've heard from the writer, artist, and inker and they all deny Batman killed the Joker. I disagree with the whole bunch. I think the joke is too good and too perfectly hidden. I need to see what happens to that Joy Buzzer. I think it's possible the Joker was right and Batman finally "gets the joke" and takes the Joker out with one of his own gags. There is a silhouette of Batman near the end, he looks like a cut out of himself grinning, he looks like he's crossed a line. I think he leaned over and jabbed the Joker with that lost needle. I can't unsee it now. I'm glad to see this and Kingdom Come revisited. They both have been called overrated and i think the high praise is all due. The art is comic book perfect. I would love to read Bolland's Watchmen on an alternate Earth someday. The Cold War stuff, wow I see it in KC but in the Killing Joke I never linked the two.

[Rikdad]

That doesn't make it 'the right' interpretation, though. Just the author's intention.

That is an distinction that I embrace. A work can evoke a worthwhile interpretation that the author did not intend, and authors can even change their minds after the fact.

It's hard for me to believe that all of the Cold War parallels are purely coincidental, but it may not have been consciously intended by Moore to make TKJ about the Cold War.

[Rikdad]

Very well said, JBatmanFan. There are definitely good reasons for TKJ to be well remembered. Probably the sheer brevity of TKJ is something that people don't often take into account. By page count, it's about 1/7th of Watchmen and by word count, maybe more like 1/20th!

The darker period is something my retro reviews have been concentrating on, and I needed to include TKJ before I go on to the next one I have planned, Identity Crisis.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I am sure that all the paranoia of the 80s shaped all of Moore's work during that period. A great companion piece to Killing Joke, or at least another take on a Bat rogue is the Clayface story "Mortal Clay." Moore's able to find the subliminal hook to every character. It's all kinds of creepy and tragic.