If you could get rid of one Earth Lantern...

[Ascended]

I think it's funny you went to such lengths to justify your support for the other GL's but for Hal it came down to, "Me no like - him stupid." (and Hal can't be a "mix of John and Guy" since he came first)

Well, I was afraid that my post was running long so I cut it short. But if you like, I can explain why I dont think Hal brings much to the table.

First off, Hal is incredibly predictable. You can basically assume that he's going to do the stupidest thing he possibly can in any given situation, as long as that involves flying in fist first by the seat of his pants without any real plan. That can be fun, but when its the character's go-to move it becomes pretty tiring.

I've also seen people say that everything that makes Hal a great Lantern is what makes him a terrible adult. And I think that's true, and I think it offers a ton of great story material. But no one ever uses that dynamic, I think because it puts Hal in a bad light way too much. He can barely hold down a job and he can't maintain any sort of meaningful relationship. Now, Hal's a maverick archetype, and maverick archetypes struggle with these sorts of things. But where Hal comes up short is his inability to make it work in the end. Most mavericks, like Han Solo or Kirk or Dirty Harry, either learn to make relationships/jobs work for them, or they walk away completely. Hal floats in the middle; never committing fully or walking away. And when he does this over and over, it becomes pretty hard to root for him. This has more to do with the serialized format of comics than Hal himself, but the cause is less important than the effect.

Mostly though, I think Hal offers more as a "villain" than he does a hero. As a hero, he's already pretty much hit the ceiling. He's the greatest Green Lantern out there and there's not many places for him to go. He'll never be promoted because the Guardians cant stand him and he's not reliable or well suited to authority positions. And no one wants to read about Hal Jordan; Desk Jockey anyway. But as a sympathetic villain, you take the limitations off. Hal becomes free to act in ways implied by his personality that he otherwise cant, and you immediately "forgive" him for his flaws because he's not supposed to be a "good" guy. So him breaking Carol's heart over and over? Not a source of resentment or dislike anymore, it becomes "what do you expect, the guy's nuts".

I also think that Hal offers more as a villain because of the ramifications it would have on the shared universe and the GL franchise. He's a founding Leaguer. He knows everyone, their secret identities, where they live, who they're with, their weaknesses, their strengths, fears....all of it, and he's just as powerful (or close to it) as anyone on the League. And no one on Hal's level has ever gone to the other side (other than Hal himself for a couple years where he had three showings). I think the sense of.....violation....would be palpable, and that makes Hal-the-villain more interesting because of the effect he'd have on his former allies. And among the Corps, it's another super-star who has gone "bad". How does that affect the GLC, and the other earth-based Lanterns in particular? How do they deal with that betrayal and the emotional fallout? Just the Guardians' reaction to Hal turning sides, and their attempts to make sure it never happens again, would provide years of stories. The other Lanterns get an elevated status and new foil, and Hal becomes one of, if not the, greatest foe the DCU has ever seen.

Notice I've put words like "bad" "villain" and "evil" in quotes because I dont think Hal really has it in him to be that selfish and cruel. If you look back on the early 90's and his turn as Parallax, you can see that Hal is still trying to do the right thing, still trying to be a hero, but his methods have become way too heavy-handed and he's decided that the ends justify the means. But he's not cruel or selfish (any more than usual anyway). To me, that concept was far more interesting than anything done with him before or since. Hal wasn't just a crazy evil person, he was basically the same guy who had just become fed up and was willing to do whatever it took to change things for the better.

If it were up to me, I'd have Hal forced into joining the Sinestro Corps by Parallax, who wants the only person Sinestro ever feared to drive a wedge through the Corps, (in turn creating more chaos and fear). Hal would be forced into an impossible situation; causing chaos in the Sinestros hampers their activity across the universe, but Parallax wants their fear to feed on. Hal has to stop Sinestro, but in order to get out from under Parallax's thumb he'd have to work with Sinestro, quietly, without the entity possessing him realizing it. It wouldnt make Hal a straight up villain, so he could maintain many of his relationships, but it'd still force him into doing some questionable things in the service of a greater good and cause strife among his friends. It'd give him plenty to wrestle with, both literally and figuratively. Basically, something along the lines, conceptually, of Renegade, but good, and with long-term potential.

[Sirzechs]

I'd have to pic Guy Gardner, not that I don't like him; I really enjoyed him in Red Lanterns. However to me he doesn't really seem to fit a purpose unlike the rest of the Green Lanterns.

John Stewart is a great military man who can lead and train the corps.
Hal Jordan has always seemed like a great hero and champion of the corps.
Kyle Rayner has always seemed like some sort sort savior(best word I got) or someone destined for greatness such as when he was the last Green Lantern, his time as the White Lantern, and even currently in Omega Men.

Guy never really stood out to me.

Yeah this is as accurate as it gets Guy truly shined as a Red, sadly too much writers at DC are so obsessed with the past they they keep restoring the changes.

[Sirzechs]

Going by this thread Hal is the greatest Jimmy rustler of all time.
-Holding down the franchise
-The reason the others don't sell well (what ever that's suppose to mean)

I'd say DC policy would be to kill off the ones that sell poorly.

[The Darknight Detective]

Ah, the great Hal-John debate: Part 1,000,003!

[Sirzechs]

Ah, the great Hal-John debate: Part 1,000,003!

[The Darknight Detective]

If it only would end here, Sirzechs.

[Frontier]

If someone like Sinestro can get into the Corps then quite frankly so can anyone.

I vote Hal or Guy.

I'm not sure that's the best example, since Sinestro wasn't always the fear-mongering tyrant obsessed with fulfilling his own skewed sense of order for the universe, but changed over time into that. He was genuinely once a model Green Lantern and the best of the best. It's just his experiences on Korugar and with the Corps. ultimately changed him for the worst, and he let it change him, and he became the greatest enemy of the Corps.

None of them, even Hal, thought Sinestro would ever go as far as he did and truly give in to fear. And there's always the potential that it can happen to someone else.

If it only would end here, Sirzechs.

It's what makes it hard when you like all four of these guys .

And as to the criticism that Hal can be written like Guy...I agree there have been instances where that have happened. Especially when Johns played up the antagonism between him and Batman in the early Justice League issues after the reboot. And yes, he can come off like a jerk sometimes. But I have hard time reading most of the Johns run, reading/watching New Frontier, Green Lantern: The Animated Series, Batman: Brave and the Bold, First Flight, and not liking Hal or seeing why I grew to really like the character.

Do bad portrayals of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman devalue the good depictions?

[Aquadoc]

John Stewart. I've never read an interesting story with him in it.

[deadboy80]

I was never a fan of Guy, until the last ten years or so. I like where he has been and what he has done. So as much as i like Hal, he should go. Never believed he should have been resurrected. After he is eliminated i would place one of the remaining lanterns on earth semi permanently. I miss G.L. Earth stories.

[SiegePerilous02]

On the one hand, I've seen stories where I felt Hal was Guy in all but name.

What stories were these? All I can think of are the film and the early New 52 JL issues. Because the former was just a bad movie, and EVERYONE acted like they got hit with the stupid stick in the latter.

Going by this thread Hal is the greatest Jimmy rustler of all time.
-Holding down the franchise
-The reason the others don't sell well (what ever that's suppose to mean)

I'd say DC policy would be to kill off the ones that sell poorly.

I know, right? Hal causes more strife than Strife herself.
Did any of the others even sell that well when Hal wasn't around? You didn't see people on the street wearing Green Lantern logo T-shirts when Kyle was starring in the book and fighting losers like Grayven and Effigy.

Do bad portrayals of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman devalue the good depictions?

Nope, and it shouldn't, but we (comic fans) tend to be like that. Bad portrayals are irrefutable proof that the characters we don't like suck, but our favorites are exempt from that criteria.

John Stewart. I've never read an interesting story with him in it.

I've heard great things about Mosaic, but that's it. Other than that, he has the Xanshi thing which they've been milking for years and he dated Hawkgirl in JLU. And even in that, Shayera was really the far more interesting of the two.

[Anthony Shaw]

I've never read a story where John sounded or acted like Hal. ANd in the moments when he's angry it's not about the same things as Guy, who's less "angry" and more "douchey".

On the one hand, I've seen stories where I felt Hal was Guy in all but name.

Hal seemed more like Kyle in the GL film.

Hal seems more like Guy in the New 52 animated films.

A running joke I have is that Hal has a new personality with each animated appearance.

DC wants Hal to be the main event GL, but they can't make up their minds on how to make him more appealing to outside audiences.

My preference was GL First Flight.

[The Darknight Detective]

It's what makes it hard when you like all four of these guys .

That's the thing for me. I like them all, too. I even like the ones left off the poll (especially Jessica). Though Hal has been my favorite since I first saw him on Saturday mornings during the late '60s, I have never been passionate enough about his character (or any other character, for that matter) that I needed to diss the others in his defense. As long as it's worth reading, whichever GL is headlining a comic (or movie) doesn't matter to me.

[The Darknight Detective]

I've heard great things about Mosaic, but that's it. Other than that, he has the Xanshi thing which they've been milking for years and he dated Hawkgirl in JLU. And even in that, Shayera was really the far more interesting of the two.

Mosaic was very good, IMO, as was John's presence on JLU.

[The Darknight Detective]

Hal seemed more like Kyle in the GL film.

Hal seems more like Guy in the New 52 animated films.

A running joke I have is that Hal has a new personality with each animated appearance.

DC wants Hal to be the main event GL, but they can't make up their minds on how to make him more appealing to outside audiences.

My preference was GL First Flight.

New Frontier is the one for me.

[Anthony Shaw]

Ah, the great Hal-John debate: Part 1,000,003!

Folks are just stating opinions.

Hal is not going anywhere.