Sauron runs the Villains gauntlet

[The Dork Knight]

1. All 9 Nazgul at the same time
2. Durin's Bane
3. Smaug
4. Gothmog
5. Glaurung
6. All the Balrogs at the same time
7. Ancalagon the Black
8. Ungoliant

Assume everyone is at full power . How far does Sauron get ? Does he clear ?

Also how would Carcharoth fare in the same gauntlet ?

[Pendaran]

I can't see him getting past Gothmog really. Especially not when 2 and 3 are going to take some effort to deal with.

[The Dork Knight]

He fully recovers after every round . So assume exhaustion isn't going to be an issue

[The Dork Knight]

Also how do you think Carcharoth fares ?

[Pendaran]

He fully recovers after every round . So assume exhaustion isn't going to be an issue

It's not really a gauntlet per se then, just a bunch of individual fights, to be pedantic about it ;p

[The Dork Knight]

It's not really a gauntlet per se then, just a bunch of individual fights, to be pedantic about it ;p

Lol don't be a pedant . You know what I meant ....

So how does he fare in the "individual fights " then ? ;p

[Pendaran]

So technically we don't really see Gothmog do much to really rank him by, I suppose I just have a hard time picturing Sauron reliably getting past his more or less counterpart in Morgoth's hierarchy and also the head Balrog, considering what Durin's Bane was capable of. Gothmog should thereby be more potent than that.

As for the ur-werewolf, certainly considering how Huan did up Sauron, he comes off as more physically powerful, but homeboy can't fly that I recall, he doesn't get past Smaug, who can take to the air and just make with the firebreathing.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Also how do you think Carcharoth fares ?

Kakka CarrotCake?

[Sharpandpointies]

So, I'll take a run at this.

1. All 9 Nazgul at the same time

- Not only are their feats grossly inferior to his, but he's their boss. With or without the Ring (which he has in this scenario, it's 'full power' after all) he owns them. And owns them, if you get my meaning.

2. Durin's Bane

- Full power Sauron, with Ring, flipped the bird at lightnings sent by the Valar that were devastating an entire Númenorean city. It took Gil-Galad and Elendil both to bring him down. And even before he had the Ring, he handily defeated Finrod in a magical duel of songs (insert Rock and Rule stuff here). A peer of the Balrog of Moria tied against Glorfindel, alone. The math is pretty easy here.

3. Smaug

- Probably ends up controlling him with the Ruling Ring. It's kind of Sauron's schtick.

4. Gothmog

- This is a lot tougher, but going by 'Gothmog runs even with Fingon, while Sauron smites Captain Noldamerica (Finrod) - someone in the same generation of the House of Finwë - dukes it out with Huan fairly well for a while, and only loses to Fingon's son backed up by the baddest dude in the second age swinging a sword made by one of the best weaponsmiths around', I'm going to give the edge to Sauron here. Rough fight, just going by presentation, but he should take it.

5. Glaurung

- Urgh. Barring some sort of mind control from Sauron using the Ring to augment such, he's in serious problems with this one, not having the Iron of Death handy, nor a convenient ravine in which to park his shadowy butt and wait for Glaurung to wander past overhead. And I'm seriously iffy on mind control working on a dude who is not only running at a similar level of power to Sauron himself, but has some pretty hefty mind control powers of his own (certainly not before Glaurung storms across the arena and sits on him, this being one of Glaurung's strategies, apparently, that HAS gotten him in minor trouble in the past). I think he stops here, barring something I've forgotten.

6. All the Balrogs at the same time

- Hah, no.

7. Ancalagon the Black

- *laughs uncontrollably*

8. Ungoliant

- Seriously, does Sauron owe you money? Movies bug you as much as they did me? ^_^

Also how would Carcharoth fare in the same gauntlet ?

Pendaran called it same as I see it. I figure Carcharoth - ESPECIALLY full power, which means 'beyond-berserk fury with a Silmaril stuffed down his throat' - steamrolls the Nazgûl, treats the Balrog like a chewtoy, then hits Smaug. Smaug takes one look at this (relatively small) killing machine barrelling down on him and takes to the air. He then proceeds to barf fire all over Mr. Crimson Jaws until there's nothing left but a bed of cinders, upon which rests a human hand holding a gem that puts the Arkenstone to shame.

Granted, Smaug probably ends up with burst eardrums from the howling, but that's about all.

Edit: He then sees the gem, covets it (dragon, shiny, they're like connoisseur magpies), snags it, and learns a lesson children often figure out to their dismay: if it's a brightly glowing object, it might be dangerous to touch.

[The Dork Knight]

Lol I just started naming villains then I got crazy even though I knew he couldn't beat people like Ungoliant ( at one point I thought about putting Melkor on the list ) . The others were mainly to see how Carcharoth would fare against them given he was physically more powerful but I hadn't really thought it through with the whole flight thing

[Sharpandpointies]

Carcharoth...debatably more powerful than Sauron. Physically. And one reason for that is because he's carting around a Silmaril in a most uncomfortable fashion.

The problem with the Sauron/Huan fight is three-fold.

1. Sauron got 'clever' and figured 'I'll try to monkey with the prophecy - I'll become the biggest, baddest werewolf around, fated to be the one to kill Huan'. Problem: he wasn't fated to kill Huan, Huan was going to die fighting Carcharoth. Which means Sauron actually LIMITED himself at the start of the fight against Huan. Then got his ass handed to him in the fight, and ended up with Huan's teeth at his throat and Lúthien making demands;

2. This was Sauron Pre-Ring.

3. Carcharoth is toting a Silmaril which, while it's giving him a terrible case of...you know, I'm not even going there, it's a step too far. Anyway, while the thing is torching him from inside-out, it's also basically giving him quite a boost, to the point where he basically walks straight through the Girdle of Melian as if it wasn't even there.

I'm not sure I'd give Carcharoth good odds against Sauron when Sauron, with Ring, is going all-out. Maybe the Silmaril burning up Red-Jaws' guts will help him against Sauron's sorcery and the like, but...

[Pendaran]

Here's my thing with that, ultimately Sauron's strategy boiled down to "I will attempt to do Huan up with physical force", there wasn't some... mm.. considerable intangible weakening by fate there. He certainly limited himself in the sense of opting for plan physical force over anything else he could have done, but at the end of the day, he went at Huan physically and got wrecked. Carcharoth by contrast, yes with the silmaril burning him up, went at Huan, and Huan died as the result (so did the werewolf, but that's still leagues better than how Sauron did).

Also, honestly, I know it's supposed to be "he became stronger with the ring!" but Sauron pre ring frankly seemed ultimately more impressive overall. Sauron with the ring went down to who he went down to (yes, they also died mostly, but still). Sauron in the Silmarillion era was doing things like coming out the victor in magic battles with Finrod.

[Sharpandpointies]

The Finrod thing, we have a Noldorin dude going for a straight-magical duel against a Maiar known for his sorcery, Finrod not being tricked out with any of his First-Age battle-gear but instead in a disguise that basically got pierced. It's hardly surprising Sauron out-magicked him. Gil-Galad and Elendil, we have a couple of high-end heroes in First Age gear (despite this being Second Age, they sure as heck were toting First Age stuff, Gil-Galad being around in the First Age and Elendil's sword having been made in the First Age by a guy who made stuff that cut apart things Morgoth made) going at him battle-ready and also taking it to him physically. And still getting incinerated by fighting the guy, dying as a result of that.

I'm pretty cool with there being a difference in the two situations, myself. ^_^

It's a fair point, though, that Carcharoth would ultimately be more potent on a purely physical level, especially with the Silmaril (given he had that stuffed down his craw whilst fighting Huan). So, you got me there.

In a completely unrestricted fight, mind, Sauron is going to be going at it with whatever-the-hell he decides to use, and Carcharoth is going to be attacking someone who isn't exactly wimpy and is also coming in with sorcery and mind-screwing etc etc. Then we're into 'will the Silmaril make a difference?' and I'm...*wiggles hand*. Interesting question, that.