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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member Jon-El's Avatar
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    Default All Star Batman & Robin original creative team?

    I was listening to an old podcast that featured an interview with Bob Schreck & he mentioned another writer was originally assigned to this series. I was just curious who it was.

  2. #2
    Metahumane MykeHavoc's Avatar
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    Jeph Loeb. It was to be a creative team followup to Hush. If I'm not mistaken, he was also planned as the writer of All-Star Batman vol 2 with Art Adams on pencils, but the project was eventually scrapped. Some of the unfinished art for the first issue has been released online.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by MykeHavoc View Post
    Jeph Loeb. It was to be a creative team followup to Hush. If I'm not mistaken, he was also planned as the writer of All-Star Batman vol 2 with Art Adams on pencils, but the project was eventually scrapped. Some of the unfinished art for the first issue has been released online.
    While Miller is a better/legendary writer than Loeb I think if they went this way we would had a much better story since Miller works in his own Batman world which is much more Darker and Bruce is more of a Military Special Operative than a Detective.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy View Post
    While Miller is a better/legendary writer than Loeb I think if they went this way we would had a much better story since Miller works in his own Batman world which is much more Darker and Bruce is more of a Military Special Operative than a Detective.
    I'm not sure Loeb writes Batman as a great detective, in practice, but why would that make for a better story?

    And, is not Batman actively tracking down leads and processing clues in the All-Star we got?
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    I'm not sure Loeb writes Batman as a great detective, in practice, but why would that make for a better story?

    And, is not Batman actively tracking down leads and processing clues in the All-Star we got?
    Yeah I may have generalized too much on the detective part. I think it would have been better story because Miller does not write Dick Grayson/Robin with much appreciation and tends to disregard anything that makes the character who he is. ASBAR had some nice parts especially between Bruce-Dick but Carrie Kelly is the perfect Robin to him and Dick will never measure up to Bruce's Standards even though as Batman he showed very little concern for his well being after witnessing his parents shot in the head by kidnapping him and everything else

  6. #6
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Loeb would have been much better, how sad we didn't get that.
    Thank you AMericA for votinG for chAnge.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy View Post
    While Miller is a better/legendary writer than Loeb I think if they went this way we would had a much better story since Miller works in his own Batman world which is much more Darker and Bruce is more of a Military Special Operative than a Detective.
    Miller's Batman has been a better detective than Loeb has ever shown Batman capable of being. Batman does detective work in pretty much all of Miller's book, while Batman is stumbling and always 3 steps behind the Holiday killer in TLH.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    Loeb would have been much better, how sad we didn't get that.
    Maybe Loeb of the Long Halloween era, or Loeb of the Spiderman Blue/Hulk Gray era... but the Loeb of the Post Superman/Batman era, the Loeb of the Red Hulk era... that guy's kind of a different animal. His son's death changed him, and his writing on superheroes has become a lot more "find the fun", or "let's get nuts because that's entertaining" - dark and brooding doesn't really define Loeb's writing anymore, and definitely not at the time ASB&R was coming out.

    Ultimately, it may have been a lot different, but better is definitely not a guarantee.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy View Post
    Yeah I may have generalized too much on the detective part. I think it would have been better story because Miller does not write Dick Grayson/Robin with much appreciation and tends to disregard anything that makes the character who he is.
    He was portrayed as brilliant, passionate, scared, brave, a natural detective, a natural fighter, and eager to confront crime and bullying.

    DKSA's Dick is pretty bad, but All-Star... Dick was about as superhero as a kid can get.


    Quote Originally Posted by DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy View Post
    ASBAR had some nice parts especially between Bruce-Dick but Carrie Kelly is the perfect Robin to him and Dick will never measure up to Bruce's Standards even though as Batman he showed very little concern for his well being after witnessing his parents shot in the head by kidnapping him and everything else
    He did kidnap him, but since the police and presumably city officials were trying to kill him, and were fine with beating or killing Vicki and Alfred... well, who's he going to turn him over to?

    Batman spends most of All-Star fronting as hard as he can and everyone calls him out on it. He can't stop and be compassionate with anyone, Dick, Alfred, Gordon, Canary... until he realizes he has to stop and be compassionate. Did you miss him hugging Dick? That, as far as I can tell, is the point of All-Star. Batman needed Dick, he needed a Robin, to remind him to be human and humane. Someone to be responsible for.

    The only reason "and Robin, the Boy Wonder" in the title of All-Star is because Miller wanted it there.
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  10. #10
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    ASB&R for me was the best of DK Batman Miller ever did for me, controversial to some as a lot of people didn't like it but as it started from middle point of the introduction of Robin without the burden of Death of The Wayne's and without the what was to come later in the Dick Grayson/Joker mess it felt very new and exciting, I'd rather have a lunatic Bruce Wayne/Batman than a lunatic Robin it made sense to me one is dark one is light not both are dark, I can see why some didn't like it but I couldn't get enough and the art was stunning, that batcave pull out stunning!!!

    Finish it instead of going further with the line while a lot of us are still waiting at the traffic lights of ASB&R

  11. #11
    CBR got me like.. Maxpower00044's Avatar
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    There's no guarantee that Loeb would've better (in fact, I highly doubt it). It would've been TLH part 5!!!!!!!!! (Not saying TLH is bad (I love it), just that it's the only type of Batman story he writes). If people were presented this option at the time the book came out, it would've been unanimous in Miller's favor.

    Btw. This book is god awful. "Read it like a parody!" Uh, no thanks.

    If only ASBAR was 1/10th as good as ASS it would've been a fantastic story (probably).
    Last edited by Maxpower00044; 12-02-2015 at 11:46 AM.

  12. #12
    Metahumane MykeHavoc's Avatar
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    For Long Halloween/Dark Victory, Loeb wrote Batman as not the most competent of detectives, with a child ultimately solving the latter story's main mystery for him. But keep in mind that this was a very young Bruce, taking place at a time not too long after the events of Year One occurred. By the time we get to Hush, the mystery is actually fairly elaborate with a lot of constantly moving pieces, so I can give him a pass. People tend to forget the 2 years he wrote Superman/Batman, in which he portrayed Bruce much more honed in skill.

    As for whether ASBAR would've been better had he done it (or the proposed second volume) isn't really possible to gauge, as it's not a reality. We can only speculate. I've had little to no issue with any of his Batman work, so I'd certainly be open to more. But I enjoy ASBAR as is, despite it's flaws. It's a manic experience unlike anything else and I'm glad it exists. I understand the nearly unanimous loathing of it, but I'm one who appreciates all levels of diversity when it comes to the portrayal of the character. There is no right or wrong way. Batman is simply one of those characters that can exist in any permeation and I tend to enjoy it, whether it's Adam West or Dark Knight Returns. It's all Batman to me, for better or worse.
    Last edited by MykeHavoc; 12-03-2015 at 12:24 AM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MykeHavoc View Post
    I understand the nearly unanimous loathing of it,
    I don't think it's anywhere close to unanimous. I'd guess it's closer to 50-50

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    I don't think it's anywhere close to unanimous. I'd guess it's closer to 50-50
    I'm not even sure of that. Would it really have sold so well if 50 percent of people who even know an individual Batman miniseries loathed it?

    A few masochists or "I like it ironically" types, sure, but All-Star sold really well, didn't it?
    Patsy Walker on TV! Patsy Walker in new comics! Patsy Walker in your brain! And Jessica Jones is the new Nancy! (Oh, and read the Comics Cube.)

  15. #15

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    This is pretty much every Jeph Loeb story ever written:

    Place character in a mystery with mystery villain. Introduce/re-introduce a character only to show that character dead. Throw in a bunch of red herrings. Reveal that mystery villain was actually introduced/re-introduced character all along and death didn't really happen. Throw in one final twist at the end that really doesn't make sense, but it's a twist so people will talk about it.

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