2nd Annual Namor the Sub-Mariner Advent Calendar

[Reviresco]

10 Days to Christmas









"Look, he has his problems, sure. But we ought to be helping him, not abandoning him. We're the only friends he's got.

Hey, where'd my sandwich go?"

[Mantis Girl 94]

Rev, I knew all about Hulk in space/WWH/etc. But I never knew this part about Namor being against it happening...

This makes me love him even more! Thank you for the cartoon version of this as well...absolutely adorable!

[Reviresco]

Rev, I knew all about Hulk in space/WWH/etc. But I never knew this part about Namor being against it happening...

This makes me love him even more! Thank you for the cartoon version of this as well...absolutely adorable!

Yep. Namor was the only one who stood up for the Hulk. That's why he's not part of WWH, and Hulk's retribution against the Illuminati. Despite what Hickman and Brevroot were pushing, Namor was always the moral center of the Illuminati. He was always the one who called the rest of them on their BS.

[Reviresco]

From Sub-Mariner 56, an unabashed 'message' book, beautifully drawn and plotted by Dan Adkins. Here Namor remains in self-imposed exile from Atlantis, he abdicated 20 issues previously, upon the murder of Lady Dorma. He is taking a nap, when he hears a scream ...



Because that's heroes do. Save people.

It turns out to be an Atlanean woman named Coral, whom Lord Vashti (one of the ruling council of Atlantis) has sent looking for Namor. She's screaming because she's being hunted by sharks. Namor saves her, and she tells him that some unknown space ship has landed in the ocean, and Atlantis is defenseless, because the Atlantean army is fighting Attuma again -- he's been more invading since Namor abdicated. Namor questions the threat, since it IS an unknown craft ...



Namor, exercising his seer abilities and seeing into today's awful Squadron Supreme issue.

The space craft crashed, and it's passengers are red skinned men (Tamara Rahn's race), looking for a new home, because their own world is dying. The crash has freed their primitive, flesh eating workers, who of course, head for Atlantis cause they are hungry.

[Reviresco]

9 Days to Christmas

Namor escorts Coral back to Atlantis, because obviously there's too many dangers, like sharks, Atuma's barbarians, and possible space alien invaders, but refuses to enter the city. He promises to make a patrol of the walls. The lack of responsibility, remorse and regret Namor shows here is overwhelming. Yes, sarcasm. ; p



Namor runs into the Haab, the carnivorous workers, who have knocked down part of the walls to get to dinner. He subdues them. Coral shows up with the red skinned aliens, and explains the situation, and looks to Namor to help them. Namor says he doesn't rule Atlantis, but Lord Vashti will help them, and swims off.

Some of the battle weary Atlanteans soldiers return home.



They see the undefended walls of Atlantis breeched, and fear yet another enemy has taken advantage of their absence. Desperate, they rush through the break, encounter Coral and the aliens, and fall on them.





"Is the curse of royalty never to leave me? Shall we ever learn of peace?"

[Custodes]

Yep. Namor was the only one who stood up for the Hulk. That's why he's not part of WWH, and Hulk's retribution against the Illuminati. Despite what Hickman and Brevroot were pushing, Namor was always the moral center of the Illuminati. He was always the one who called the rest of them on their BS.

Fellow Defenders to the end!

[Reviresco]

Fellow Defenders to the end!

Yes, indeed! You'd think Strange would have known better.

[Abe]

Yep. Namor was the only one who stood up for the Hulk. That's why he's not part of WWH, and Hulk's retribution against the Illuminati. Despite what Hickman and Brevroot were pushing, Namor was always the moral center of the Illuminati. He was always the one who called the rest of them on their BS.

Reviresco, just I few words from someone who really liked Hickman's story, as you know, and of course not its current consequences in ANAD. I don't know much about Bendis' Illuminati, but about NA you are perfectly right : Namor is the moral center. And he is the one - the King - who acts to save his Earth - and finally the universe (I guess that he will play a part in SW 9). I really think that it is exactly what's Hickman wanted to write. I don't know any interviews from that time by the way - so perhaps I'm wrong. As a reader I never understood how the story could be understood differently. Thus my surprise when I discovered CBR and some discussions here, not only among fans. I was certainly pretty naïve about the consequences of such a story if the editorial wanted to use it to fulfill another purpose. Now I'm quite horrified : because Namor is really the scapegoat in that affair. It will probably ruin the reading of NA for me for a while. Even if I really enjoyed this version of King Namor, the taste now is too bitter...

[Thor-El]

Great thread! Following it now.

[Reviresco]

Reviresco, just I few words from someone who really liked Hickman's story, as you know, and of course not its current consequences in ANAD. I don't know much about Bendis' Illuminati, but about NA you are perfectly right : Namor is the moral center. And he is the one - the King - who acts to save his Earth - and finally the universe (I guess that he will play a part in SW 9). I really think that it is exactly what's Hickman wanted to write. I don't know any interviews from that time by the way - so perhaps I'm wrong. As a reader I never understood how the story could be understood differently. Thus my surprise when I discovered CBR and some discussions here, not only among fans. I was certainly pretty naïve about the consequences of such a story if the editorial wanted to use it to fulfill another purpose. Now I'm quite horrified : because Namor is really the scapegoat in that affair. It will probably ruin the reading of NA for me for a while. Even if I really enjoyed this version of King Namor, the taste now is too bitter...

All the interviews prior to the release were talking about how Black Panther was the moral center and the lynch pin of the book. In the story, at the start, Hickman set it up as a story between the light and dark, life and death -- and basically stated it as such for Stark and Steve. The parallel, obviously, is Namor and T'challa -- but which is which, eh? It requires more thought and analysis than I can summon at this time (plus errands loom) to discuss whether or not Hickman carried through or what his intentions were. I will say, looking back over the years writing his epic, it's clear Hickman made changes and compromises due to other writers or editorial.

For me, yes, Namor continues to be the moral center. But others have a different morality and see it differently. How Hickman sees it ... well, again, discussion I can't address at this moment. For me, yes, it boggles my mind at how some people on CBR interpret things that seem clearly wrong to me -- but they probably say the same of me.

Yes. I think most, except the haters, will agree, that Namor has been made the scapegoat. I wouldn't let that entirely ruin the reading of Hickman's story, however. Perhaps, instead, look for clues in how he subverts that end -- I think there are some in the beginning, but now, not so much. What he does with Namor in Secret Wars will tell us, I think.

I'm a day behind, but I've got stuff to scan and errands. Will be a posting fool tonight.

[Reviresco]

Great thread! Following it now.

Thank you, Thor-El!

I'm discovering awesome stuff I'd forgotten about Namor because of this thread. I'll have to think how to continue something similar after Christmas.

[Abe]

All the interviews prior to the release were talking about how Black Panther was the moral center and the lynch pin of the book. In the story, at the start, Hickman set it up as a story between the light and dark, life and death -- and basically stated it as such for Stark and Steve. The parallel, obviously, is Namor and T'challa -- but which is which, eh? It requires more thought and analysis than I can summon at this time (plus errands loom) to discuss whether or not Hickman carried through or what his intentions were. I will say, looking back over the years writing his epic, it's clear Hickman made changes and compromises due to other writers or editorial.

For me, yes, Namor continues to be the moral center. But others have a different morality and see it differently. How Hickman sees it ... well, again, discussion I can't address at this moment. For me, yes, it boggles my mind at how some people on CBR interpret things that seem clearly wrong to me -- but they probably say the same of me.

Yes. I think most, except the haters, will agree, that Namor has been made the scapegoat. I wouldn't let that entirely ruin the reading of Hickman's story, however. Perhaps, instead, look for clues in how he subverts that end -- I think there are some in the beginning, but now, not so much. What he does with Namor in Secret Wars will tell us, I think.

I'm a day behind, but I've got stuff to scan and errands. Will be a posting fool tonight.

Good to know. I should try to look after that. It could be interesting to check exactly who said what and with which words... I'm too tired to develop anything - and it won't fit the thread anyway. So just thank you so much to lead me to that target, Rev!

[Reviresco]

In response to the claims that Namor didn't show the least remorse for his actions, here are a few panes Hickman himself wrote from New Avengers 17. Here Namor visits T'challa at the newly constructed Bridge that can view other dimensions.

Words are exchanged and Namor tells T'challa that they "war for fleeting moments" till everything dies. Referring back to Namor's statement from New Avengers #2 -- obviously referring to his actions in AvX, T'challa says ...

[Mr MajestiK]

Yep. Namor was the only one who stood up for the Hulk. That's why he's not part of WWH, and Hulk's retribution against the Illuminati. Despite what Hickman and Brevroot were pushing, Namor was always the moral center of the Illuminati. He was always the one who called the rest of them on their BS.

Agreed 100%.

[Reviresco]

From Sub-Mariner #60, after Tamara Rahn, and adopted citizen of Atlantis, has been captured in the nets of a fishing vessel, and is held prisoner at the UN. Namor's attempt to retrieve her himself, is stymied by Thor, and he contemplates an invasion -- but he is prince no more. Lord Vashti, one of the Council of Elders, helps him gather a fleet, but he has to enlist the aid of Lorvex, a less than honorable Atlantean, who already has clashed with both Tamara and Namor.




A fleet gathered, Namor emphasizes this isn't a conquest, but a rescue mission.



The UN, has obviously lost it's mind, debating the _ownership_ of an Atlantean.