Battle of the Angels: which Azrael did you prefer?

[godisawesome]

Pretty straight forward question: of the two individuals to go by the Azrael moniker Pre-Flashpoint, which one, and which series, did you ultimately prefer? Jean Paul Valley and the sci-fi oriented 1990's version? Or the occultic Michael Lane from the late 00's?

Please note this is the previously published comic versions of both characters; we don't know what the new Azrael is like, and the Arkham version is a pretty clear amalgam of the two.

My vote goes towards Valley. I prefer the scifi twist on the Knights Templar in the Order of St. Dumas, as well as the setup of him having a "System" underneath his normal personality to conflict with. I also liked how his origin was unusual for a member of the Batfamily, considering he never had a completely normal life to begin with, considering he was literally bred to be a hitman and didn't even meet his father until the old man kicked the bucket.

Lane has some cool aspects, and a definite personality, but I never really liked his unstable mentality combined with a magic suit of armor. It clashed too much with Gotham to me, and the very occultic tone of the book wound up irritating me (you can probably guess some of my complaints thanks to my message board handle, but please know that I'm also a student of history, so stuff like "the 8th deadly sin is faith!" Just seems stupid to me.) I did read some of issues, and I admired the energy, but I'm one of the few who found the Crusader to be annoying just in general.

[Godlike13]

Honestly, neither. Sorry...

[t hedge coke]

Jean Paul.

I like Lane, I liked most of his mini and ongoing, and his RIP-related stuff, but it bugged me how he went from Hurt's getaway pilot to just having a life again, walking around, and Dick and them don't much care. Farelli, too, the freckled ass who was covering up these monster police and helping procure prostitutes for his friend to rape and murder, is still on the force in the ongoing. That just sours me.

JPV had problems. He was messed up and sometimes he did messed up things, but his penance seemed more real, too. How the other bat-characters treated him seemed more superhero-easygoing, but still genuine in their distrust or caution.

[Rahul]

In the Arkham videogame series, spoilers:

They kind of mashed the two. Which I thought was a pretty good result.

end of spoilers

However, looks-wise JPV Azrael is the best.

[Aioros22]

I actually need to read Lane because I didn`t actually follow it. Lane had the white Azrarel costume design, didn`t he? That`s pretty much what I recall.

But I did follow Jean Paul to an extent back then and enjoyed (alot, actually) the Dumas mythology, the system, the Order, the Templars background etc. I think it was a strong work by O`Neil. What you describe of Lane doesn`t seem that bad. "Magic" wouldn`t be far behind for Jean Paul either, altho in his case, we would give it it a more scientific (in modern lingo) term like Alchemy.

[darkseidpwns]

I prefer Lane,for starters I think his costume is cooler and his powers/weapons infinitely better. Secondly he was trained to be a Batman replacement and had horrible things happen to him whereas JPV like Tim was just an every man nerd,Lane's back story is just much better and I tend to find every men who are secretly special kind of stupid. Lane's book also tried to explore a different part of the mythos,that niche is now being filled by Robin:Son of Batman . Lane was a righteous fanatic,JPV was just a loon sorta,the former made conscious choices that defined his life,he had to struggle between being the demon that Damian would eventually kill or a righteous force for justice whereas the latter just fricked up and blamed the "system" for it.

Overall I'd say Lane's book was also bolder thanks to the theological aspects that it touched while JPV's book was a fairly straightforward superhero book. Finally JPV's book was mostly filler imo,he bested Dumas with in the first 25 issues until they resurfaced again in the final 10 or so issues. The Order itself wasn't interesting,I cant really remember any major character affiliated with that organization. It was just JPV beating up fodder,however it's Bane arc was truly the highlight of the book.

[t hedge coke]

I prefer Lane,for starters I think his costume is cooler and his powers/weapons infinitely better. Secondly he was trained to be a Batman replacement and had horrible things happen to him whereas JPV like Tim was just an every man nerd

That's not really true, though. JPV was trained, too, to be an assassin. He just didn't know it.

Finally JPV's book was mostly filler imo,he bested Dumas with in the first 25 issues until they resurfaced again in the final 10 or so issues. The Order itself wasn't interesting,I cant really remember any major character affiliated with that organization. It was just JPV beating up fodder,however it's Bane arc was truly the highlight of the book.

Filler, or just an ongoing title with no major arc over the whole? It's okeh to dislike it on that basis, but I don't think it was ever meant to be a novel-in-issues or anything that could have filler. It was just a series of ongoing individual stories.

[darkseidpwns]

That's not really true, though. JPV was trained, too, to be an assassin. He just didn't know it.



Filler, or just an ongoing title with no major arc over the whole? It's okeh to dislike it on that basis, but I don't think it was ever meant to be a novel-in-issues or anything that could have filler. It was just a series of ongoing individual stories.

Well that's the thing that I dislike,he didn't know it. As for the book I think something should have come out of 100 issues,like I said I cant even remember an impressive character or 2 affiliated with the order. There was Lilhy and LeHah but they were sucky imo.

[darkseidpwns]

I do hope Lane or the Suit of Sorrows + the swords of Sin and Salvation show up in Robin:SOB.

[Aioros22]

Suit of Sorrows. That`s so RPG and I love it.

As long they don`t go back to this, it`s cool
http://ryanlb.com/images/dc/blogsize/Azrael02.jpg

[Batarang]

I read one trade about Michael...(I think the name of the trade is ''Gotham will be judged'') and that was not that good unfortunatly... on the other hand Jean Paul is a character that i have known for almost 15 years now. He was in bunch of the first Batman comics that i have ever read which was The Knightfall saga... because of that Jean Paul has more value to me as a character who is in Batman Mythos... I re-read the Knightfall Saga as the latest chubby trades now and i can say so far Jean Paul is a pretty interesting character... the way the system makes him the paranoid schizophrenia... cause he daydreams about St.Duman and the former Azrael... even talks to them and get respons from them in these day dreams and Jean Paul constantly upgrades his armor in paranoid way... puts in buby trapes in the armor so no one else can wear it, and armor turns out more leathal the each time he upgrades the armor...pretty pychotic... lol and i think he's a virgin... (cause of the way he behaves towards Catwoman, and yeah that's kind a lame... lol) cause the system doesn't let him have sex...lol really.... puts him in somekind of religous craze when he thinks about sex, i can almost picture him to whip himself because of the idea of sex... all cause of the system which was installed to his brain when he was little boy by his own father... and this system that makes him the super warrior he is... i believe all these torment cause of the system makes him a pretty interesting character.

[SebastianS]

In my case, I followed Jean Paul adventures from the get go, so he is the Azrael that I know and fell in love with. He had his own, interesting, reason to be around. He is a very interesting character with a lot of potential. Plus the Order was very interesting as this secretive organization (just as the Court of Owls now).

Michael... he was just a very limited filler, not that interesting to begin with.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Jean Paul. I grew reading his original series and I enjoyed his stint as Batman.