X-men vs. Inhumans Discussion

[Quillero]

Oh yeah. Just a minor difference. They're really not any different now than they were before all this...

Again, nice try. But we ain't buying it. Maybe try selling it somewhere else.

They can't. The market has ignored these poor man's mutants no matter what Marvel tries.

[Myetche]

PLOT HOOOOOLE!

But yeah. If Kamala has the gene, at least one of her parents has to carry it as well.

So far, the implication is that whichever one of them has the gene, it simply didn't activate when they got misted. Dante's sister was exposed and went unaffected as well (though her unborn child was), so it's not just them.

Kamala's brother Aamir is an odd case in that he avoided the initial misting, but he later got exposed to what was essentially bootleg Terrigen and it triggered an allergic reaction with his Inhuman genes.

[AcesX1X]

Well, Kamala Khan's parents haven't suffered any effects yet, and they were exposed when the mist got into their own home that night.

lucky them.

[etamogrey]

This entire thread is proof that these fandoms should have never come in contact. Seriously, create an Inhuman books and replace that Ultimates thing.

[Child of the Past]

Well, by all means, keep it up. You're clearly making friends and swaying people to your cause with your highly rational arguments where you basically say "there's no difference between the Inhumans now and what they were" (except there is) and "the NuHumans are nothing like the mutants" (except they are).

My advice would be to tone it down before a mod tones it down for you, but it's obviously your prerogative...

I'm not exactly sure what I should tone down. All I want is for people get along without the having to demean either property.

[Wolverine12]

If I see the word "Isis" in this thread one more time it is getting locked. There has been way too much personal fighting that doesn't move the conversation forward at all. Whatever reason a person uses to decide whether or not to buy a comic does not make them ignorant, it's a freaking comic. Keep it civil.

[Midnight_v]

So I read both thread over the course of the last day and I posted this at the complex. coming into this whole thing kinda cold to the subject this is my reaction to this debate:

I read alot before commenting but I had been wondering why the X-men seems so lackluster recently. I hadn't seen all the pieces laid out like they are here.
I'm going to say a couple things.
Reading a lot of this It seems that the people who are in the lets say "Inhuman" camp has an argument that ranges from "Nuh-Uh!" to "You guy's are crazy conspiracy nuts" to finally "Pushing the Inhumans" is "Just teh gud biznezz".
Its very daunting to read through because they very much again *seem!* to gush inhuman fan-boy ism. So I want to lend support to the Xmen fans that are enduring this kind of repetitive spam-like arguments. Its like the 3 points they have on loop...while every week, the x-guys are showing another example of how its horrible and sad whats being done to the characters.

Also I'm surprised at how many apologists there are. People claiming to be X-men supporters who choose to "not see it". Its like racial inequality drama being played out in a succinct medium. I know there's a segment of readers that want "change" and thats all they want, so they feel like they're "Winning" or something I don't get, but its all very thin.
The worst thing about this is the destabilized fan base of the x-men. So take popular mutants ~ make them avengers. Vilify and/or kill the X-leaders, while making the books both unrecognizable character-wise and not particularly "good" (ymmv) story wise. All the while facing some nebulous extinction event in the form of T-mists. Inhumans poping up everywhere "PARTAKING" of the mutant conceptual space. Respect to all when I make this reference but...It makes me feel like I'm reading a parable about the native american struggle.
So I can easily see x-fans scattered going different directions on this.
Do you: Not buy in human books?
Not buy the new X-books
Stop supporting marvel books? (because its marvels lets call it "unsavory" business practice thats affecting you.)
I don't have a good answer.
However, I really commend you guys here at the compleX cause its a tough spot you're in. Maybe you guys can start a shared universe fan-fic or something, find some writers kickstart I don't know, but marvel doens't seem likely to fix this anytime soon. They don't profit from it. Good luck M_v

[MarvelMaster616]

Just read Extraordinary X-men #4, which has added yet another wrinkle to this discussion. Again, it doesn't reveal too much other than how every single mutant on the planet hates Cyclops with a passion. But it does get metaphorical at one point. Without spoiling too much, it teases how it's not just the Inhumans who have become more like the X-men, as has been touched on by other posters. Now mutants have to become more like Inhuman and not just because they have to live in a secret, isolated base cut off from society. It's kind of symbolic when you think about it. When I watch Agents of SHIELD and how they handle the Inhumans, I see none of the themes that the Inhumans comics explore. I only see the same themes the X-men comics have been exploring for half-a-century. That seems to be the only way Marvel can make the Inhumans work in the MCU. Conversely, that's the only way Marvel can make mutants work in their comics now, by making them more like Inhumans.

I think it's pretty sad because it's undermining the concepts for both. The Inhumans are still not subject to any real hate or fear. But in EXM #4, the X-men are immediately subject to outright fear the moment they appear in public. And why? They weren't the ones that released the Terrigen Mists, which created M-Pox. So why are they getting all the hate while everyone just shrugs off the Inhumans? It's a pretty egregious plot-hole and one that reeks of bias. But that's pretty much par for the course these days with Marvel.

[Psi-Lord]

Just read Extraordinary X-men #4, which has added yet another wrinkle to this discussion. Again, it doesn't reveal too much other than how every single mutant on the planet hates Cyclops with a passion. But it does get metaphorical at one point. Without spoiling too much, it teases how it's not just the Inhumans who have become more like the X-men, as has been touched on by other posters. Now mutants have to become more like Inhuman and not just because they have to live in a secret, isolated base cut off from society. It's kind of symbolic when you think about it. When I watch Agents of SHIELD and how they handle the Inhumans, I see none of the themes that the Inhumans comics explore. I only see the same themes the X-men comics have been exploring for half-a-century. That seems to be the only way Marvel can make the Inhumans work in the MCU. Conversely, that's the only way Marvel can make mutants work in their comics now, by making them more like Inhumans.

I think it's pretty sad because it's undermining the concepts for both. The Inhumans are still not subject to any real hate or fear. But in EXM #4, the X-men are immediately subject to outright fear the moment they appear in public. And why? They weren't the ones that released the Terrigen Mists, which created M-Pox. So why are they getting all the hate while everyone just shrugs off the Inhumans? It's a pretty egregious plot-hole and one that reeks of bias. But that's pretty much par for the course these days with Marvel.

I think you're right.

[VilotorioFabiano]

I think it's pretty sad because it's undermining the concepts for both. The Inhumans are still not subject to any real hate or fear. But in EXM #4, the X-men are immediately subject to outright fear the moment they appear in public. And why? They weren't the ones that released the Terrigen Mists, which created M-Pox. So why are they getting all the hate while everyone just shrugs off the Inhumans? It's a pretty egregious plot-hole and one that reeks of bias. But that's pretty much par for the course these days with Marvel.

Wait, I thought the M-Pox started after whatever Cyclops "did". I'm guessing mutants are getting the blame because whatever Cyclops "did" somehow turned the cloud from harmless to harmful. Also, isn't the cloud sentient now?

[Arya]

Just read Extraordinary X-men #4, which has added yet another wrinkle to this discussion. Again, it doesn't reveal too much other than how every single mutant on the planet hates Cyclops with a passion. But it does get metaphorical at one point. Without spoiling too much, it teases how it's not just the Inhumans who have become more like the X-men, as has been touched on by other posters. Now mutants have to become more like Inhuman and not just because they have to live in a secret, isolated base cut off from society. It's kind of symbolic when you think about it. When I watch Agents of SHIELD and how they handle the Inhumans, I see none of the themes that the Inhumans comics explore. I only see the same themes the X-men comics have been exploring for half-a-century. That seems to be the only way Marvel can make the Inhumans work in the MCU. Conversely, that's the only way Marvel can make mutants work in their comics now, by making them more like Inhumans.

I think it's pretty sad because it's undermining the concepts for both. The Inhumans are still not subject to any real hate or fear. But in EXM #4, the X-men are immediately subject to outright fear the moment they appear in public. And why? They weren't the ones that released the Terrigen Mists, which created M-Pox. So why are they getting all the hate while everyone just shrugs off the Inhumans? It's a pretty egregious plot-hole and one that reeks of bias. But that's pretty much par for the course these days with Marvel.

I still don't understand why hate has to be rational for fit within a narrative structure. Hate is strange that way, it doesn't have to make sense, be rational, or play to a narrative that helps a point you are making. Not only that the Inhumans are too new for their populace to be hated that much. I am sure a great number of the populace are still surprised and still taking it in. I don't see it taking away from both so much as needfully complicating the narrative of both. This should not be a cut and dry thing, a simple thing where one side is evil. The Inhumans had no choice in the matter. Their king did it without anyone's permission or support. Mutants are suffering as a result in ways worse and compounded by Blackbolt's actions. He doesn't care because he's looking for his son, which I guess makes sense but this is a mess and it should fit a narrative to make it clean or simple. It's not. The man that hated them so much, did something so terrible became the very thing he hated. It's a trope it happens in fiction but honestly it's the most fascinating thing he has been through in years. Not only that but I also really enjoyed seeing the team get together and save each other. The reveal was fascinating but the larger thing for me is that this is an X-man team. It's a team that will save mutants, not respond with hate when fear is shown and will be better than the world around them. That's a comic I want to read.

[redrunner97]

It seems that the people who are in the lets say "Inhuman" camp has an argument that ranges from "Nuh-Uh!" to "You guy's are crazy conspiracy nuts" to finally "Pushing the Inhumans" is "Just teh gud biznezz".

Its very daunting to read through because they very much again *seem!* to gush inhuman fan-boy ism. So I want to lend support to the Xmen fans that are enduring this kind of repetitive spam-like arguments. Its like the 3 points they have on loop...while every week, the x-guys are showing another example of how its horrible and sad whats being done to the characters.

The only up-in-arms fanboys in this thread are the hardcore complexers that will find a way to play victim regardless of the topic at hand; which is needless considering the X-Men brand as a whole is actually a victim in many contexts, just not this one.

The Inhumans fans in this thread who have been vocal are not ignorant fanboys blind to some magic inconvenient truth.
I've been an X-Men fan longer than I've been into the Inhumans. My knowledge of the X-Men dates back to the 90's animated series which was the introduction most millennials had to mutants. But the first Marvel comic I ever read was Inhumans #1. In my top 10 list (for both heroes and villains) there are multiple mutants and Inhumans. Saying that our opinion is somehow disingenuous because we aren't exclusively fans of the X-Men is demeaning to say the least.

But since you seem to think there are no points to be made and it's all just regurgitated rhetoric, I'll provide some factual information.

MUTANTS:
1. Hated and feared by modern human society.
2. Families often turn on them and cast them out.
3. Feel oppressed and alone, often believe their powers are a detriment to "normal" livelihood.
4. Strive to fit in, to be accepted, tolerated, and integrated into human society.
5. Face rampant discrimination from people of all walks of life.
6. Turn to "their kind" for protection from the cruelty of the outside world.
7. Powers come from a gene that is unlocked during puberty (or early childhood / trauma).
8. A band of misfits who come together, rallied around a commonality that isn't shared by "the establishment".

INHUMANS:
1. Accepted and embraced by modern human society.
2. Families often move to Attilan with their NuHuman loved ones as a sign of solidarity and love.
3. Often feel liberated by their Inhuman heritage, and often learn to realize that through their new powers they are unique.
4. Already are tolerated, accepted, and in most cases integrated.
5. Only faces discrimination from fascist political regimes and literal terrorists.
6. Turn to "their kind" for guidance regarding their long-lost culture, and to get a handle on their abilities for the betterment of their lives.
7. Powers come from DNA that is unlocked ONLY when exposed to an external catalyst; can happen at any age most often in early adulthood.
8. An actual civilization of powered people, literally a nation where the norm is being powered not the other way around.

Those are just a few examples of how starkly contrasted these two groups are.

Most of you see another group of superheroes connected by their DNA, on Earth, in the public eye and the rest of the blanks are filled in.
That's ironic considering the theme of the X-Men is all about not judging a book by it's cover; isn't it?

No one is saying the NuHumans didn't change the current status of the Inhumans, but the current books aren't ignoring their own rich history in favor of X-Men-lite themes or outright actions. The NuHumans offer a new, different perspective to the Inhumans story, but it's not a replacement for what once was, it's adding to the mythology and adding to the content of Inhuman society and their traditions, by conflicting with something new. And it's just a way of expanding on Inhumanity's relationship with humanity, the thing their comics have always explored.

[Arya]

The only up-in-arms fanboys in this thread are the hardcore complexers that will find a way to play victim regardless of the topic at hand; which is needless considering the X-Men brand as a whole is actually a victim in many contexts, just not this one.

The Inhumans fans in this thread who have been vocal are not ignorant fanboys blind to some magic inconvenient truth.
I've been an X-Men fan longer than I've been into the Inhumans. My knowledge of the X-Men dates back to the 90's animated series which was the introduction most millennials had to mutants. But the first Marvel comic I ever read was Inhumans #1. In my top 10 list (for both heroes and villains) there are multiple mutants and Inhumans. Saying that our opinion is somehow disingenuous because we aren't exclusively fans of the X-Men is demeaning to say the least.

But since you seem to think there are no points to be made and it's all just regurgitated rhetoric, I'll provide some factual information.

MUTANTS:
1. Hated and feared by modern human society.
2. Families often turn on them and cast them out.
3. Feel oppressed and alone, often believe their powers are a detriment to "normal" livelihood.
4. Strive to fit in, to be accepted, tolerated, and integrated into human society.
5. Face rampant discrimination from people of all walks of life.
6. Turn to "their kind" for protection from the cruelty of the outside world.
7. Powers come from a gene that is unlocked during puberty (or early childhood / trauma).
8. A band of misfits who come together, rallied around a commonality that isn't shared by "the establishment".

INHUMANS:
1. Accepted and embraced by modern human society.
2. Families often move to Attilan with their NuHuman loved ones as a sign of solidarity and love.
3. Often feel liberated by their Inhuman heritage, and often learn to realize that through their new powers they are unique.
4. Already are tolerated, accepted, and in most cases integrated.
5. Only faces discrimination from fascist political regimes and literal terrorists.
6. Turn to "their kind" for guidance regarding their long-lost culture, and to get a handle on their abilities for the betterment of their lives.
7. Powers come from DNA that is unlocked ONLY when exposed to an external catalyst; can happen at any age most often in early adulthood.
8. An actual civilization of powered people, literally a nation where the norm is being powered not the other way around.

Those are just a few examples of how starkly contrasted these two groups are.

Most of you see another group of superheroes connected by their DNA, on Earth, in the public eye and the rest of the blanks are filled in. That's ironic considering the theme of the X-Men is all about not judging a book by it's cover; isn't it?

Either you are ignoring things or you don't get it. People have issues with the Inhumans because their king deliberately set off a bomb that is killing mutants. the other inhumans aren't responsible for what Blackbolt did but they are rising and marvel is using them to move the X-men out. That is reason enough for them to be disliked.

[Knives]

I expected the complex would be exploding at this point after the revelation of the hybrid clone mutant and inhuman .

[idisestablish]

For those that say that the Inhumans' interaction with humanity is contrary to their history or modus operandi, I'm just going to leave this here. From Fantastic Four #48, the fourth appearance of the Inhumans.