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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinism View Post
    I agree with all the things posted here, except this piece. Marvel KNOWS that X-fans love the X-men no matter what. They know we will rally behind our mutants and scream and fight for them. They KNOW we aren't going to covert.

    They don't care. We aren't the target audience for this. The audience is someone who may see Rogue in a movie and go find her in an Avengers book or someone that may see Quake on a show and go read Inhumans.

    They do not care about "converting" us at all because they also KNOW, using data, that we are all getting old and we will die out and in ten years, all the mutant-lovers will be gone and they will have ten years of history pushing the Inhumans. (imho)
    This is s very strange post. We aren't that old. Give it another 40 years.

  2. #17
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arya View Post
    This is s very strange post. We aren't that old. Give it another 40 years.
    maybe there's a t-cloud Disney is working to rid the world of x-fans.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by xhx23x View Post
    maybe there's a t-cloud Disney is working to rid the world of x-fans.
    Right?
    Marvel doesn't need Disney's help they are doing a fine job of it on their own. That's the annoying part.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arya View Post
    This is s very strange post. We aren't that old. Give it another 40 years.
    I hope kevinism is referring to how long the typical reader stays active in the hobby, and not our actual lifespans. Despite all the thoughts tossed around, I'd still think that the turnover on readership is actually pretty high and that 10 years is more than long enough for a 'generation' of readers to have moved on.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    I hope kevinism is referring to how long the typical reader stays active in the hobby, and not our actual lifespans. Despite all the thoughts tossed around, I'd still think that the turnover on readership is actually pretty high and that 10 years is more than long enough for a 'generation' of readers to have moved on.
    I could see that but unfortunately that isn't what he said. What you are saying makes perfect sense.
    Last edited by Arya; 12-03-2015 at 12:04 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    The X-men are on borrowed time. That's obvious. Their characters, along with those of the now-defunct FF and Spider-man franchies, are being farmed out to prop up Marvel Studios owned properties in the comics.

    - Rogue, Human Torch, Deadpool and Cable to the Uncanny Avengers
    - Kitty Pryde, the Thing and Venom to the Guardians of the Galaxy
    - Beast, Human Torch (doing double duty), Frenzy and now apparently Spider-man (Peter Parker) to the Inhumans
    Least we forget Roberto leading the New Avengers Arguably the better Avengers book.

  7. #22
    Extraordinary X-Man redrunner97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donpricetag View Post
    You hit it right on the head. I picked up All New Inhumans yesterday and found myself having to constantly refocus my attention. Despite how well it was written and illustrated, felt like a blatant parody of the X-Men. What made it worse was the lack of information of what the heck was happening and why. It's very frustrating to say the least. Then having to see one of my favorite underutilized characters in Frenzy turn into an Inhuman collaborator just took me even more aback.

    At least the last time they pulled this with X-Men it was for the purpose of controlling the amount of unnecessary powered characters running around just because. This time it's a business move to lessen the impact of X-Men based characters, thus controlling how much attention they need or don't need in the greater universe while at the same time limiting Fox's ability to use any of their future storylines for movie fodder. But that's just me putting some pieces together and making sense of it in my head
    Quote Originally Posted by xhx23x View Post
    This was basically how I felt reading it. I think and other circumstances I would even like the book, but the whole thing just put me off and it's hard to even put into an objective view when your favorites are the ones that appear to be stomp on here (And yes, maybe that's not the intent, but it doesn't change the reaction). It the intent is to get X-Fans interested, it's not working for me. All it's making me feel is not want to read any of this Inhuman stuff.
    I had the exact opposite reaction... I thought the writers went out of their way to say "here's how the Inhumans are NOT like the X-Men".

    All-New Inhumans #1 showed the idea of a powered race, from the EXACT OPPOSITE perspective of the X-Men:
    - Most humans HATE mutants. A minority of humans LIKE mutants.
    - Most humans LIKE Inhumans. A minority of humans HATE Inhumans.

    Plus it showed that mutants have a legitimate concern that the Royal Family recognizes and is actively trying to solve. Crystal even called out Black Bolt to Medusa's face and said the T-Bomb and it's affects on mutants is a mess that he made. And then there's the twist with Frenzy, showing that Crystal respects the X-Men and part of her mission with cloud is to try and save mutant (but also human / Inhuman) lives.

    Then the anarchist protesting the Inhumans in Australia turned out to be lead by a NuHuman who hates Inhumans for turning him into a monster, instead of "because they're different". Then the other protesters turned on him, accusing him of being an Alien hiding among their group the whole time (it's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers, meets the Inhuman's debut Fantastic Four issue called "Among Us Hide... The Inhumans".) They showed people giving tours of the T-Cloud's path, people wanting to take pictures with the Inhumans, etc. Normal people love them, the same people who wouldn't be caught dead in the same room as a "mutie".

    I also found it interesting that a group of the very same humans (the most radical humans) who hate the X-Men actually agree with most mutants (for once) on this issue, with both sides seeing Inhumans as alien invaders who've detonated a biological weapon that's disrupting all non-Inhuman life on Earth (mutants and humans). That part really intrigued me and I hope the writes do something with that premise.
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  8. #23
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redrunner97 View Post
    I had the exact opposite reaction... I thought the writers went out of their way to say "here's how the Inhumans are NOT like the X-Men".

    All-New Inhumans #1 showed the idea of a powered race, from the EXACT OPPOSITE perspective of the X-Men:
    - Most humans HATE mutants. A minority of humans LIKE mutants.
    - Most humans LIKE Inhumans. A minority of humans HATE Inhumans.

    Plus it showed that mutants have a legitimate concern that the Royal Family recognizes and is actively trying to solve. Crystal even called out Black Bolt to Medusa's face and said the T-Bomb and it's affects on mutants is a mess that he made. And then there's the twist with Frenzy, showing that Crystal respects the X-Men and part of her mission with cloud is to try and save mutant (but also human / Inhuman) lives.

    Then the anarchist protesting the Inhumans in Australia turned out to be lead by a NuHuman who hates Inhumans for turning him into a monster, instead of "because they're different". Then the other protesters turned on him, accusing him of being an Alien hiding among their group the whole time (it's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers, meets the Inhuman's debut Fantastic Four issue called "Among Us Hide... The Inhumans".) They showed people giving tours of the T-Cloud's path, people wanting to take pictures with the Inhumans, etc. Normal people love them, the same people who wouldn't be caught dead in the same room as a "mutie".

    I also found it interesting that a group of the very same humans (the most radical humans) who hate the X-Men actually agree with most mutants (for once) on this issue, with both sides seeing Inhumans as alien invaders who've detonated a biological weapon that's disrupting all non-Inhuman life on Earth (mutants and humans). That part really intrigued me and I hope the writes do something with that premise.
    Hey, I'm not saying people can't have the opposite reaction, but judging by your Avatar, I am guessing you already had some love for the Inhumans. I'm stating my own reaction to it as someone who's been an x-fan the majority of his life with only a very basic knowledge of the Inhumans. I felt bummed and weirded out by reading that. It comes out like a rip off to me even if it's not meant to be that. I'm perfectly aware that the meta stuff of the deal is probably coloring my opinion, hence why I mentioned under different circumstances I would probably like it. But it's hard to enjoy something that feels like it's basically stepping on something you already like. The Complex exist because some of us feel like this and a lot of Marvel's moves just reinforce that.

  9. #24
    Incredible Member Jean Grey's Avatar
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    I think Marvel's biggest issue with the Inhumans, is that as people have mentioned, they are trying to bleed out the X-men's popularity on to them. And it's not going to work because the Inhumans lack recognizable and popular characters.

    Black Bolt/Crystal/Medusa are really the most recognizable ones and known in popular media. I have no idea why they didn't just retcon Daisy as an inhuman and had her be part of one of the books, given her current popularity. Instead they are trying for people to give a crap about the Inhumans by using the X-men's storyline. And I trully just don't see the inhumans happenning for as long as they use the X-men to try and get them some popularity. X-men fans are a loud bunch, and instead of pitting them against each other they should be trying to make the inhumans seem as simply another corner of the Marvel Universe.

    The lack of originality on the inhuman storylines is also something that perplexes me, as you would think they would be trying to give them something unique and new to hold onto for years to come. But nope. And I'm not talking about the ANAD storyline, but even before that.

    At the end of the day tho, it's all in the consumers hands. If you are against what they are doing, you could simply not buy Inhuman books and send a message to Marvel.
    Last edited by Jean Grey; 12-03-2015 at 01:31 PM.

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    I'd have to say that I agree with you marvelmaster if it wasn't that both franchises have great writers and stories connected to them. Are the inhumans taking concepts and ideas and even characters straight from the X-men? Yes they are, but I feel as though Soule has been using the Inhumans and their secretive past and the effect they have on global politics by their introduction as shown in the recent Uncanny Inhumans and All-new Inhumans series. I feel that Marvel is just trying where the Inhumans fit within the marvel universe and building them up.

    As for the X-men I would more describe them as an unmoveable pillar of the Marvel Universe who aren't going anywhere, but Marvel is just stuck beyond going past them being feared and hated while dealing with the extinction of their species. However the writers they have now aren't slouches, Jeff Lemire has been telling an interesting story as builds the new world the x-men live and survive in now that ties into how they are effected by changes thanks to the inhumans but series like All-new Wolverine and All-new X-men have just been about mutants being heroes and having fun in this world, although we have to wait for Cullen Bunn's Uncanny X-men which may be similar to X-force.

    I honestly think we have nothing to worry about when it comes to Inhumans vs X-men, and that you can enjoy both franchises. We just have to wait and see where their interconnected story will lead us, which will probably be some sort of big crossover event. If anything I think other series should be more afraid of just how big Spiderman has gotten and the multitude of Spider-men related titles that are out.
    I don't doubt that Marvel has put some quality writers on the Inhumans books. I have nothing but respect for Charles Soule. I think he's one of Marvel's top talents. But there's only so much a writer can do when the very foundation of the story is flawed. You concede that the Inhumans are taking concepts and ideas from the X-men. Well that in and of itself is a major flaw in the very concept of the Inhumans.

    As I stated earlier, the Inhumans have no place doing what the X-men do. They are a society of secretive, xenophobic, self-entitled royals who never willingly contributed anything to humanity until they had no choice. For them to go from that to basically following the X-men isn't just jarring. It's fundamentally inconsistent with the entire concept. They might as well start calling themselves mutants because that's how they're acting.

    Now I wouldn't mind this all that much if it weren't for the fact that this flawed narrative is coming at the expense of the X-men. It's not just that the Inhumans are ripping off their stories. They're effectively killing off the X-men's position in the Marvel universe. Their existence and their function is poisoning and sterilizing mutants. If it were just the case that they were sharing the same world, then that wouldn't be an issue. But the way the story is set up gives the distinct impression that the Inhumans are subverting mutants, albeit unintentionally (or maybe intentionally for some).

    And as much as I respect the writing talent Marvel ass assigned to the X-men comics, there's only so much they can do to make this narrative functional. So much of it happened off-panel. One minute, the mutant race is holding a peaceful demonstration. The next, they're being used as target practice and being blamed for a plague. There's just no getting around the amount of crap that happens off-panel. We saw in X3 how that can seriously undermine a story. And while it is possible to fill in some of those blanks over time, it still leaves us in a situation where the Inhumans are getting preferential treatment over mutants.
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  11. #26
    Mugga, please. xhx23x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    Now I wouldn't mind this all that much if it weren't for the fact that this flawed narrative is coming at the expense of the X-men. It's not just that the Inhumans are ripping off their stories. They're effectively killing off the X-men's position in the Marvel universe. Their existence and their function is poisoning and sterilizing mutants. If it were just the case that they were sharing the same world, then that wouldn't be an issue. But the way the story is set up gives the distinct impression that the Inhumans are subverting mutants, albeit unintentionally (or maybe intentionally for some).
    .
    This in particular felt very true to me when I read the Frenzy side-story. It was sealed with Crystal last line. I got the comic both because it looked interesting and I wanted to see exactly what the whole status of the Inhuman was for myself. And Uncanny Inhumans didn't hold the same interest from the previous I saw. Anyways, getting back to it.

    Seeing them train new recruits? Didn't really mind, most hero teams do that anyways. Dealing with the public? Okay, fine, that's not a big deal. Fighting racist, sure, why not I already expected that even if I cringed a bit. But that point I could still overlook the similarities and just enjoy it for what it was, even the stupid not necessary Xavier line I could stomach. I could've lived with most of the issue, maybe even check issue 2. But then came that story and the reveal with Frenzy and that Crystal line. "it isn't just super hero stuff. it's political." This is when I was nope! Sorry, not going to happen! And that just ruined everything else I tolerated beforehand. Because I feel all of it, or a variation of it is where the X-Men should be. And it's what No more mutants, and later Schism and now the T-Mist is robbing from them. They probably won't get to be in that position anymore.

    If this storyline was happening with the X-Men currently not in such a downfall, it probably wouldn't be so bad, hell, maybe even awesome. But how can you enjoy crystal and her team recruiting and going around the world when Storm is in Limbo with what remains of the school? How can one just watch Medusa give interviews and sign autographs when Rogue is dying, full of warts? How can one just like all these NuHuman characters when a lot of characters are still MIA and can apparently turn up dead off panel to create drama cause the 8 month gap willed it? It's a hard sell.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelMaster616 View Post
    I don't doubt that Marvel has put some quality writers on the Inhumans books. I have nothing but respect for Charles Soule. I think he's one of Marvel's top talents. But there's only so much a writer can do when the very foundation of the story is flawed. You concede that the Inhumans are taking concepts and ideas from the X-men. Well that in and of itself is a major flaw in the very concept of the Inhumans.

    As I stated earlier, the Inhumans have no place doing what the X-men do. They are a society of secretive, xenophobic, self-entitled royals who never willingly contributed anything to humanity until they had no choice. For them to go from that to basically following the X-men isn't just jarring. It's fundamentally inconsistent with the entire concept. They might as well start calling themselves mutants because that's how they're acting.

    Now I wouldn't mind this all that much if it weren't for the fact that this flawed narrative is coming at the expense of the X-men. It's not just that the Inhumans are ripping off their stories. They're effectively killing off the X-men's position in the Marvel universe. Their existence and their function is poisoning and sterilizing mutants. If it were just the case that they were sharing the same world, then that wouldn't be an issue. But the way the story is set up gives the distinct impression that the Inhumans are subverting mutants, albeit unintentionally (or maybe intentionally for some).

    And as much as I respect the writing talent Marvel ass assigned to the X-men comics, there's only so much they can do to make this narrative functional. So much of it happened off-panel. One minute, the mutant race is holding a peaceful demonstration. The next, they're being used as target practice and being blamed for a plague. There's just no getting around the amount of crap that happens off-panel. We saw in X3 how that can seriously undermine a story. And while it is possible to fill in some of those blanks over time, it still leaves us in a situation where the Inhumans are getting preferential treatment over mutants.

    I will concede to something else, the fact that the rise of the Inhumans comes at the cost of the X-men is not a good thing. You are right that the fact that it is harming, sterilizing, and possibily killing mutants to create more Inhumans is a flaw of the writing in of itself. However, its not as if the issue itself isn't being addressed as Beast of the X-men currently in Uncanny Inhumans is trying to find a cure for the disease, not to mention people aren't exactly happy with the Inhumans for releasing the T-mist so they aren't getting away scott free(not a cyclops pun).

    As for contributing to the world, as you previously stated due to the events of Infinity the Inhumans can't operate in secret. It is now literally impossible for them to hide after blowing up a city over new york while releasing a gas storm across the entire planet that is transforming people with inhuman DNA. But they have managed to keep some of the society of the inhumans refrencing secret hidden inhuman cities, still having a ruling queen plus diplomats such as Crystal, as well as exploring inhuman history. So while it's not something they would do it is what they have to do now that they are out in the open and having a global impact.

    As for being off-panel, I'd say its just part of the mystery that they are trying to build up as to what happened over the past 8 months. I can see how people want to know what happened since we still don't have many details as to what happened except that something bad involving the death of cyclops took place, but keeping us in suspense is part of storytelling and we will eventually learn what exactly happened, and hopefully it will be worth the wait.
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  13. #28
    Traveler of omniverses Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    As I see it, right now x-men fans are in a dilemma: if they still buying x-books Marvel will continued with the actual tendencie, because they will understand than X-fans will still buying the books doesn't matter what kind of plot they use. If they doesn't buy the x-books and follow the popular characters (as Rogue in Avengers) Marvel will reach its objetive of downgrade the X-franchise, which in the end would damage the comics universe, but I suppose than Marvel cares more for the movie bussiness right now. So it's a win-win situation for Marvel.
    So basically the ball is in the inhuman side of the camp. Will they sell more than the x-men sell right now? (Somebody should check the sale numbers to compare). Answering the question, it's hard to said, but with the promotion than Marvel is giving to its 100% owned franchise, is highly possible than Inhumans will still be backed by the Marvel higher-ups, reciving new popular members and being the center of future storylines. But as the opening poster said, the inhumans are the antithesis of the mutant concept and their best stories always dealt with their isolation and chastes system. What is presented as inhumans today is a reversion of their original concept and it feels a lot as mutant-lite. And also doesn't help than their best stories involved the "other" banned team from Marvel.
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  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    As I see it, right now x-men fans are in a dilemma: if they still buying x-books Marvel will continued with the actual tendencie, because they will understand than X-fans will still buying the books doesn't matter what kind of plot they use. If they doesn't buy the x-books and follow the popular characters (as Rogue in Avengers) Marvel will reach its objetive of downgrade the X-franchise, which in the end would damage the comics universe, but I suppose than Marvel cares more for the movie bussiness right now. So it's a win-win situation for Marvel.
    So basically the ball is in the inhuman side of the camp. Will they sell more than the x-men sell right now? (Somebody should check the sale numbers to compare). Answering the question, it's hard to said, but with the promotion than Marvel is giving to its 100% owned franchise, is highly possible than Inhumans will still be backed by the Marvel higher-ups, reciving new popular members and being the center of future storylines. But as the opening poster said, the inhumans are the antithesis of the mutant concept and their best stories always dealt with their isolation and chastes system. What is presented as inhumans today is a reversion of their original concept and it feels a lot as mutant-lite. And also doesn't help than their best stories involved the "other" banned team from Marvel.
    Nice you are correct.

    It is a delicate moment for fans of X-mens because there is no simple way out of this dilemma.

    Except perhaps do not buy the comics of Inhumans every reader should decide for yourself.

    Of course X-mens will survive but wonder what will become of mutants in the future after all this? Wait for the next genocide?

  15. #30
    Extraordinary X-Man redrunner97's Avatar
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    I think it's pretty ridiculous to think Marvel expects the Inhumans to outsell X-Men, especially right now. One has been Marvel's premier team for decades, the other is just now getting it's first ever concurrent book. Marvel wouldn't be pushing the Inhumans if they were already a hit, as every major brand gets pushed (at least a little) before it catches on -rarely are there are any 100% organically grown fanbases, even the X-Men struggled at first. Now the Inhumans have an active movement against them, and are seeing gradually higher sales for the most part, so I'd say Marvel sees that as a win.

    IMHO, the biggest problem right now regarding the Inhumans and X-Men/X-fan's relationship is that so many people are passing judgement without reading the books. Many X-fans are paranoid (and rightfully so after how Marvel has treated the X-Men lately) and that's causing them to over-analyze the Inhumans similarities to mutants (most of which is nothing new, the two are now and have always been very similar, yet equally as different). Marvel is also not helping because their marketing department keeps trying to sell the Inhumans like they're mutants and it's causing a false belief on the part of those who aren't reading the Inhumans books that the stories are ripping off the X-Men, when that is absolutely not the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by xhx23x View Post
    Hey, I'm not saying people can't have the opposite reaction, but judging by your Avatar, I am guessing you already had some love for the Inhumans. I'm stating my own reaction to it as someone who's been an x-fan the majority of his life with only a very basic knowledge of the Inhumans. I felt bummed and weirded out by reading that. It comes out like a rip off to me even if it's not meant to be that. I'm perfectly aware that the meta stuff of the deal is probably coloring my opinion, hence why I mentioned under different circumstances I would probably like it. But it's hard to enjoy something that feels like it's basically stepping on something you already like. The Complex exist because some of us feel like this and a lot of Marvel's moves just reinforce that.
    I genuinely respect your opinion, even if I do disagree.

    To me, as a reader of both books and a life-long fan of both franchises, I see no real connection between the Inhumans push and the X-Men "anti-push"; aside from the unfortunate fact that both are happening simultaneously. They're both still unique and can stand independently IMO, regardless of any similarities, most of which have existed since the inception of the Inhumans. Just my two cents though.

    That being said, I actually consider myself a complexer. I'm a huge X-Men fan and several mutants are in my top ten heroes and villains list, and I think it's an undeniable fact that the X-Men are being mistreated, mishandled, and essentially abused by Marvel at this time, in nearly every possible medium.
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