X-men vs. Inhumans Discussion

[Arya]

Racism is so effing weird.

"You're really different and I'm fine with it and I even put your face on my t-shirt but this other dude is different and I hate him because obviously."

Or I put on a tshirtand pretend to be down for the cause but in reality that character is only a little bit less bigoted than sentinel manufacturers.

[redrunner97]

I honestly don't think the Inhumans can. if they were such an independent franchise they wouldn't need to Have Johnny Storm, Beast, Former X-Man Frenzy and Spider-Man in their books.

Every word you just said confirms two things #1) you're not reading the Inhumans books; and #2) you don't know what you're talking about because of #1.

It's extremely difficult for me to argue a point when some of you guys retort with factually untrue rhetoric, but I'll try anyway... Just know that I'm not trying to do the impossible and change your mind, but maybe someone else will come across this post and realize just how ridiculous some of these comments about the Inhumans a lot of you guys are recklessly spewing truly are.

They wouldn't need to have a HUGE part of their new direction be about an attack on the mutant race. They wouldn't need their characters to conveniently have similarities to X-Men characters.

The Inhumans have had isolated stories in the past, and will no doubt have them again in the future. This particular story just happens to involve mutants, so what? The Guardains of the Galaxy have Kitty Pryde AND The Thing right now, by your logic that means they also are somehow incapable of standing on their own? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps they're trying to tell an all-new/all-different story, just like the Inhumans and just like nearly ever book out right now from Marvel? And let's not forget that the X-Men have utilized non-mutant characters before, and other non-X-books have utilized mutants in the past also. There's nothing wrong with that, unless of course you're searching for something to further demonize the Inhumans.

They would NEED to have Crystal out recruiting, rescuing and training mutants...er...I mean Inhumans. They can't stand on their own, and that's clear as day to me.

You're stating this like it's fact when it's not.

Crystal's not "recruiting" anyone... she is, however, offering help to her own people who have undergone a tremendous change. Not persecuted people who are unwelcome in their own homes; and not to try and turn them into warriors to help them adjust to/defend a society that hates and fears them -because the Inhumans aren't the X-Men. If anyone is trying to "make them the X-Men" it's the people arguing these points.

But even if the Inhumans were doing that or were ever to do that in the future, are the X-Men the only people who can "recruit" now? So Nick Fury was ripping of the X-Men in the MCU when he put together the Avengers initiative and recruited beings with something in common: abnormal superpowers?

Even in the MCU the actors are referencing the X-Men and then say, "That's the Inhumans struggle".

The MCU is not refelctant of what's currently being done in the Inhumans comics. Mainly because:
1) The "real" Inhumans (meaning natives of Attilan) haven't been shown yet and are likely on the Moon right now in the MCU.
2) Civil War (and the registration/accords) is looming, all superpowered beings actions are feared in the MCU and the Inhumans are no exception.
3) These are actors, they're entitled to say what they want to say; doesn't make it accurate.
4) So far there's been no public outcry against Inhumans (except for a brief mention on the news of an "alien threat" that encompasses both Inhumans and the Chitauri who invaded New York).
5) Humans in the MCU don't even really know about the Inhumans other than they're just as much of a freak as The Hulk or Scarlet Witch.
6) The ATCU who were tracking the Inhumans were revealed to be HYDRA all along seeking to weaponize them (again not mutant-exclusive as Nuke in Jessica Jones and even Captain America were created as weapons), so even they are not representative of how humans feel about Inhumans.

I understand that there is a portion of Uncanny Inhuman about the politics and drama of the Inhumans as a species, but SURPRISE! The X-Men just had a schism over a difference of philosophy regarding their own race. The only difference is that Medua and Blackbolt are "royalty" and have chips on their shoulders.

What exactly is your point here, because if there's one thing the Inhumans are known SINCE DAY ONE, it's for the political theme/aspect of their race and kingdom as a whole:
1) You like to argue they're not doing there own thing, but you just confirmed they are.
2) You also just basically just killed your own point and said the X-Men ripped off the Inhumans... but I'll let it slide because obviously the two concepts (X-Men and Inhumans) have their similarities, so there's gonna be some theme overlap -even if the shoe's on the other foot- and no property can "own" a theme. I won't be running off to try and get X-books cancelled because of some half-baked conspiracy that they've somehow "stolen" the Inhuman's territory.

For the duration, I will NOT be giving a damn dime to a book with Inhuman in the title as I'd prefer these characters to not be killing off, concept stealing and flat out insulting mutants left and right.

I know. Believe me, I know. The X-Men are getting the shitty end of the stick in almost all mediums, but guess what? Viewing a fictional story as a literal personification of "the Inhumans killing off the X-Men" as "the Inhumans book replacing the X-Men books or their themes" is not healthy, not accurate, and MOST IMPORTANTLY not helping elevate the X-Men in any way.

I truly consider myself a complexer, because I'm an Xfan. And I believe the so-called "persecution complex" is valid (the X-Men are being expelled from animation, mishandled in the comics, etc.). But I fundamentally disagree with this hatred against the Inhumans, just because they've ALWAYS been somewhat similar to mutants at face value and that makes them an easy target. They've become the thing that many other complexers have become fixated on as "the enemy" and it's killed the entire idea of the complex.

While I am not reading Inhumans, the X-Men started off with the world aware of mutants and seemingly understanding they were the 'next step in evolution', while the nuHumans are probably still seen by most as the victims of an alien cloud of mist.

Oh, and they are friends with the Avengers or something.

Yeah, there's been some moments of humans viewing the NuHumans sympathetically, but for the most part it's positive intrigue.
There was a guy advertising guided tours of the terrigen cloud in All-New Inhumans #1, and even a group of people who wanted to rent a boat and chase down the cloud across the ocean to see it for themselves (and possibly be transformed)...

Lol. I genuinely don't get why people keep saying the Inhumans are the new X-Men.

The more I read the more I'm convinced most of this argument against them is just people who aren't reading the books, have probably never even read a past Inhumans book either, and have no interest of ever reading them in the future -but they just need something to let out their frustrations with the way the X-Men are being treated so they've picked out a similar franchise that's being expanded and the same time the X-Men are stuck in a rut.

That is a little but of a tangent, and to bring this back to XvsI, one difference to keep in mind when comparing the two, is that whatever the number of titles X-Men have now, those all came because there was huge demand.

Yes. And that's a good thing. The more X-book the better!
As a fan of many franchises, I'm of the same opinion regarding the Inhumans, Avengers, Guardians, and even Marvel monsters.

The Inhumans line is being expanded despite the fact that sales have been horrible.

The Inhumans have never been a best seller. And they won't be overnight, but their numbers are improving. That's why Marvel is pushing them.
It's a long-term plan to maximize profits. The more hits Marvel has, the more money Marvel has.

All products get pushed before they're hits, very few quickly grow an organic fanbase; even the X-Men weren't solid gold to begin with but eventually it became a runaway hit. Guardians of the Galaxy was helped tremendously by their movie, and the same will probably be true for other brands expanding outside of the comics realm as well, because it attracts new readers and also gives current readers (the ones not reading THAT book) a peek into what they're not seeing, and a lot of times that piques their interest.

That tells you all you need to know. The inhumans were never going to be the next big thing when it came to publishing. Deep down marvel knows that and that's why it makes their motives so clear.

If Marvel truly think they'll never catch on, ever, then they wouldn't be printing them. And I don't get why you're calling what Marvel's doing "motives", it sounds so sinister. They're a business and if you think the Inhumans are the only books to ever be pushed hard (by ANY comic label) then you're just plain wrong.

[Arya]

Their dishonesty makes it the sinister part. Instead of flat out saying they are diminishing the X-men they keep saying they aren't, all the while creating comics that show them diminishing the X-men. They are a business and I would get them focusing on the Inhumans if they were certain it was going to be a money maker for publishing. It's not. Their numbers aren't growing enough to justify it. They could still make more revenue making X-men stuff but they would have to share a small amount. It makes sense that they don't want to share, what doesn't make sense is losing money on properties that don't have long term viability.

[redrunner97]

Their dishonesty makes it the sinister part. Instead of flat out saying they are diminishing the X-men they keep saying they aren't, all the while creating comics that show them diminishing the X-men. They are a business and I would get them focusing on the Inhumans if they were certain it was going to be a money maker for publishing. It's not. Their numbers aren't growing enough to justify it. They could still make more revenue making X-men stuff but they would have to share a small amount. It makes sense that they don't want to share, what doesn't make sense is losing money on properties that don't have long term viability.

On the Inhuman front I believe they've been as open as we could expect them to be. They want to grow the brand to maximize profits and that's all.

On the X-Men front I absolutely agree with you though, they're dodging (and in some cases being intentionally misleading) regarding the scaling back of the X-Men in nearly all Disney-controlled mediums.

But I just fail to see the connecting between the X-Men being scaled back and the Inhumans being pushed. Do I think it would be happening if Marvel owned the X-Men outright? No. But they picked the Inhumans because of their similarities to mutants, no doubt. Beyond those basic, superficial, front-layer similarities that have existed for the last 50 years, the Inhumans are nothing like the X-Men; no more than any other super-powered race having to interact with fellow inhabitants on Earth would be.

[Sardorim]

Comic-wise the Inhumans cannot stand on their own. Especially not with the downsizing abd the such of the much more popular X-Franchise.

[Arya]

In story they launched a cloud that is killing off mutants and creating a disease that kills just them while causing baseline, fear driven humans to make their governments create Paramilitary and civilian mobs to hunt and kill them. I don't understand how that can't be any more blatant. Marvel wrote those stories purposely to push the inhumans.

[Iron Fist]

I don't quite get the 'Marvel are playing down the X-Men' stuff when they just announced another X-Centric event.

Comic-wise the Inhumans cannot stand on their own. Especially not with the downsizing abd the such of the much more popular X-Franchise.

I disagree, the Inhumans comics are really good reads. Only decent X-Comic atm is ANXM.

[MarvelMaster616]

Their dishonesty makes it the sinister part. Instead of flat out saying they are diminishing the X-men they keep saying they aren't, all the while creating comics that show them diminishing the X-men. They are a business and I would get them focusing on the Inhumans if they were certain it was going to be a money maker for publishing. It's not. Their numbers aren't growing enough to justify it. They could still make more revenue making X-men stuff but they would have to share a small amount. It makes sense that they don't want to share, what doesn't make sense is losing money on properties that don't have long term viability.

I agree with your sentiment, but I don't know if it's right to call it "sinister." Is it dishonest and disingenuous? Yes, I'd say so. But I don't think it's outright malicious on Marvel's part. I was at New York Comic Con this year. I heard all the announcements about how Marvel is not diminishing the X-men or anything like that. But when the X-men aren't even mentioned in the animation panel and Inhumans get special attention in others, it's kind of telling to say the least.

Marvel has NEVER admitted to making a mistake. They've never apologized for any actions they've taken or stories they've told, even when fans respond with universal negativity. Nobody from Marvel dares to talk about the Clone Saga. Nobody dares to talk about the decline in the Ultimate comics either. So I think there's a form of selective arrogance in that they won't acknowledge something no matter how obvious it is. And when you get right down to it, that's brilliant. That's exactly how you're supposed to deal with internet trolls. You just ignore them. Even if what Marvel does is despised, they can just ignore it and pretend it isn't an issue. Given enough time, it won't be.

That said, there is one factor that Marvel can't ignore: money. There are plenty of stories about how Marvel's top brass loves to pinch every penny and get rid of things that don't perform. And as it stands, the Inhumans comics are not producing in terms of sales. At some point, that can't be ignored. If Marvel's best efforts can't make the Inhumans comics at least as successful as a mid-level X-men comic, something has to give. And so long as X-men comics keep selling, Marvel can't ignore them either. Money is and always has talked for Marvel. And it'll continue to do so as long as they seek profit.

[Arya]

I don't quite get the 'Marvel are playing down the X-Men' stuff when they just announced another X-Centric event.



I disagree, the Inhumans comics are really good reads. Only decent X-Comic atm is ANXM.

One act doesn't negate years of consistent storytelling. No ANXM is in all honesty is what's wrong with the X-men line right now. It's a rehash of a rehash focusing on the narrative of characters that had their story told 40 years ago. If you like it great but honestly it's the one x-book that should be ignored. It's too early for me to judge the inhumans but the underlying premise that started their rise is disgusting.

[Arya]

I agree with your sentiment, but I don't know if it's right to call it "sinister." Is it dishonest and disingenuous? Yes, I'd say so. But I don't think it's outright malicious on Marvel's part. I was at New York Comic Con this year. I heard all the announcements about how Marvel is not diminishing the X-men or anything like that. But when the X-men aren't even mentioned in the animation panel and Inhumans get special attention in others, it's kind of telling to say the least.

Marvel has NEVER admitted to making a mistake. They've never apologized for any actions they've taken or stories they've told, even when fans respond with universal negativity. Nobody from Marvel dares to talk about the Clone Saga. Nobody dares to talk about the decline in the Ultimate comics either. So I think there's a form of selective arrogance in that they won't acknowledge something no matter how obvious it is. And when you get right down to it, that's brilliant. That's exactly how you're supposed to deal with internet trolls. You just ignore them. Even if what Marvel does is despised, they can just ignore it and pretend it isn't an issue. Given enough time, it won't be.

That said, there is one factor that Marvel can't ignore: money. There are plenty of stories about how Marvel's top brass loves to pinch every penny and get rid of things that don't perform. And as it stands, the Inhumans comics are not producing in terms of sales. At some point, that can't be ignored. If Marvel's best efforts can't make the Inhumans comics at least as successful as a mid-level X-men comic, something has to give. And so long as X-men comics keep selling, Marvel can't ignore them either. Money is and always has talked for Marvel. And it'll continue to do so as long as they seek profit.

The sinister nature of it comes in what they had to do to get there. Regardless of their intent which I can't judge because I haven't met them and talked about motives. Their actions in creating a mutant death killing cloud that results in giving mutants a disease that increases baseline human fear killing thousands of mutants again, writing in governments creating mutant hunting squads, creating mobs to kill off mutants and sterilizing the x-gene while sending mutants to hell to be safe all reveal what Marvel thinks of the brand. The counterpoint to that narrative exists in a book designed to pretend that doesn't exist in all new which is a joke because it's not all new. Their actions for the line are sinister even though their motives may not be.

[Iron Fist]

One act doesn't negate years of consistent storytelling. No ANXM is in all honesty is what's wrong with the X-men line right now. It's a rehash of a rehash focusing on the narrative of characters that had their story told 40 years ago. If you like it great but honestly it's the one x-book that should be ignored. It's too early for me to judge the inhumans but the underlying premise that started their rise is disgusting.

If rehashes are what's wrong with the X-Men then everything post House of M has been wrong because they've done nothing but rehash them being an endangered species for over a decade.

To me, ANXM has been the first thing they've done in a long time to shake up the books in a way that wasn't instantly depressing and melodramatic. I mean there were A LOT of X-books during Marvel Now (while people STILL claimed the X-Men were being marginalised) and the majority of those books were terrible throwaway reads, only ones that stick out were Magneto and ANXM.

And the Inhumans rise began because Fox won't play ball, the actual Inhumans books haven't touched on any of the X-Men turf because they're a completely different entity. X-Men don't have a monopoly on being a super powered race.

[autbey]

I mean there were A LOT of X-books during Marvel Now (while people STILL claimed the X-Men were being marginalised) and the majority of those books were terrible throwaway reads, only ones that stick out were Magneto and ANXM.

Because people weren't just talking about the books, they were talking about all media and merchandise.

[Arya]

If rehashes are what's wrong with the X-Men then everything post House of M has been wrong because they've done nothing but rehash them being an endangered species for over a decade.

To me, ANXM has been the first thing they've done in a long time to shake up the books in a way that wasn't instantly depressing and melodramatic. I mean there were A LOT of X-books during Marvel Now (while people STILL claimed the X-Men were being marginalised) and the majority of those books were terrible throwaway reads, only ones that stick out were Magneto and ANXM.

And the Inhumans rise began because Fox won't play ball, the actual Inhumans books haven't touched on any of the X-Men turf because they're a completely different entity. X-Men don't have a monopoly on being a super powered race.

We have the Eternals, Inhumans, demigods... There being multiple empowered groups were never issues for me. The problem for the inhumans is that in order for them to get where they are now Blackbolt unleashed a genocidal mutant killing cloud that led to all the depression era crazy, what I call the walking deadification of the X-men. I would prefer an x book that tackles hope in a cast that actually matters. The 05 will eventually go back and have no impact on anything. Plus I really don't like the cast apart from Evan and Idie. I am indifferent about Laura but the others are a waste of ink.

The inhuman rise began because Marvel was petty and selfish.

[Iron Fist]

Because people weren't just talking about the books, they were talking about all media and merchandise.

Merch I'm not sold on because there are still X-Men stuff coming out in terms of statues and shirts etc, just not as much.

As for media, most X-Animated stuff has failed recently, wolverine and the x-men, which i loved, didn't pull the numbers and got canned, as did X-Men Evolution. Just seems like TAS was the golden age of X-Animation and they've given up trying again.

We have the Eternals, Inhumans, demigods... There being multiple empowered groups were never issues for me. The problem for the inhumans is that in order for them to get where they are now Blackbolt unleashed a genocidal mutant killing cloud that led to all the depression era crazy, what I call the walking deadification of the X-men. I would prefer an x book that tackles hope in a cast that actually matters. The 05 will eventually go back and have no impact on anything. Plus I really don't like the cast apart from Evan and Idie. I am indifferent about Laura but the others are a waste of ink.

The inhuman rise began because Marvel was petty and selfish.

I think the way they retconned the cloud was bullshit, the terrigen cloud was a great origin in Inhuman but post secret wars it seems to have been retconned into mutant sterilising cloud by Marvel which was dumb. I mean mutants were literally in the cloud in Marvel NOW and nothing happened, I'm hoping we get an explanation for this retcon when they tell us what went on during the 8 month gap.

[Shadowbrat]

lol WatXM was the highest rated show in Nicktoons' history. X-Men Evolution had a huge female fanbase. Those are some foul lies you're spreading.