X-men vs. Inhumans Discussion

[ExodusCloak]

The Inhumans need to start chopping each others heads off for the throne. They should have more "royal" Inhumans different families etc.

[redrunner97]

The Inhumans need to start chopping each others heads off for the throne. They should have more "royal" Inhumans different families etc.

Soule explored this idea recently in Soule's Inhuman, by introducing other ancient Inhuman societies that each have their own leaders who feel like they should rule Attilan now, seeing how Black Bolt created this big mess (NuHumans and the T-cloud) and they don't view the other Royals any more favorably -seeing them as the oppressors and violators of their own heritage. It's been very interesting.

An evil NuHuman named Lineage was trying to usurp control of the throne (even nearly killing Gorgon in the process; that's why he's in the wheelchair now), several other Inhuman settlements have also tried to take advantage of this chaotic time in Attilan/the Royal Family's history. Lash, from the Inhuman tribe of Orrolan in Greenland, believed the Royal Family had shamed themselves and betrayed the sacredness of terrigenesis, Ennilux was another tribe (ruled by an Inhuman called "The Capo") who wanted to take over Attilan too, and even Maximus attempted to mind-control Black Bolt after Attilan fell as well. So this has been covered lately. But Uncanny Inhumans looks like it's gonna be the more political/regal/sci-fi Inhumans book, so there's a chance they might revisit some of these themes again soon. But Soule's Inhuman almost exclusively dealt with other Inhumans trying to take over the throne.

[WallStreeter]

I'd have to say that I agree with you marvelmaster if it wasn't that both franchises have great writers and stories connected to them. Are the inhumans taking concepts and ideas and even characters straight from the X-men? Yes they are, but I feel as though Soule has been using the Inhumans and their secretive past and the effect they have on global politics by their introduction as shown in the recent Uncanny Inhumans and All-new Inhumans series. I feel that Marvel is just trying where the Inhumans fit within the marvel universe and building them up.

As for the X-men I would more describe them as an unmoveable pillar of the Marvel Universe who aren't going anywhere, but Marvel is just stuck beyond going past them being feared and hated while dealing with the extinction of their species. However the writers they have now aren't slouches, Jeff Lemire has been telling an interesting story as builds the new world the x-men live and survive in now that ties into how they are effected by changes thanks to the inhumans but series like All-new Wolverine and All-new X-men have just been about mutants being heroes and having fun in this world, although we have to wait for Cullen Bunn's Uncanny X-men which may be similar to X-force.

I honestly think we have nothing to worry about when it comes to Inhumans vs X-men, and that you can enjoy both franchises. We just have to wait and see where their interconnected story will lead us, which will probably be some sort of big crossover event. If anything I think other series should be more afraid of just how big Spiderman has gotten and the multitude of Spider-men related titles that are out.

While in past years Marvel did not promote the X-Men as much as they could have, Fox and Marvel together are now working on two X-Men related tv shows. Legion tv show and the Hellfire Club tv show. So just as MCU has expanded, Fox is finally expanding the X-Men Universe. New Mutants, Deadpool, and Gambit will have their movies. Plus Fox stepped up their game in the X-Men Universe.

As for Cyclops dying, GREAT. He is one of my favorite character, but he was written as increasingly dictatorial and tyrannical BEFORE AvX. At the end of that event he kills Professor Xavier. Thank god we have teen Cyclops around to replace him. Thank goodness the o5 are here and have given the X-Men franchise a huge breathe of fresh air.

I too think Lemire is a great writer and with certain characters out of the way (Cyclops, Wolverine, and Xavier) it's nice to see Storm finally take the spotlight as leader. It's nice to see Magik is now a core X-Man.

The split rights issue for Marvel has made them more money and put out more characters than otherwise. In the 1990s the X-Men and Spider Man were huge. Because Fox and Sony had those rights, Marvel was forced to develop lesser known franchises, like Avengers, Guardians, and now Inhumans. For the fans it just really means we have more movies and tv shows around.

[WallStreeter]

Now on Marvel farming out some X-Men and FF characters to other franchises, they did. But it's not entirely bad. I was not happy to see Kitty join Guardians of the Galaxy. But I was happy to see Rogue join the Avengers. Because of the movies they made Rogue lose her Ms. Marvel powers and I hated how people like Carey wrote her (he just had her copying people's powers and acting as just a teacher). So I was happy to see her join Uncanny Avengers and absorb Wonder Man to become a powerhouse again.

Adult Beast joined the Inhumans? Fine with that. It allowed Forge to come back as the X-Men's tech expert/scientist, and they still have teen Beast. Even after HOM and after the terrigen mists the X-Men have so many characters a lot of them just fall back into the background and are never really seen or used. So if other franchises have use for some mutants I am happy to see some of them go, as it makes room for other characters.

I would actually like to see Polaris join the Avengers. Now Marvel has left things open for Magneto being the father of Wanda and Pietro (after there was doubt it still hasn't been resolved). So if they restore the twins to being Magneto's children, I would like to see Polaris join the Avengers. She's underutilized as an X-Man.

[WallStreeter]

I also think Marvel is right. That the X-Men sell when they have their backs pushed to the wall and when they have to do what they must to survive.

DOFP, Operation: Zero Tolerance, and a number of themes that had to do with direct human bigotry and sentinels showed that. Then there was the legacy virus, the Phalanx, etc. Only in the 21st century they decided to show other threats. First a crazy Scarlet Witch. Now the terrigen mists. We know at some point they'll fix this and move on to the next threat.

[AcesX1X]

We know at some point they'll fix this and move on to the next threat.

do we? do we really? it's almost 2016. nearly a decade since the infamous "house of m - no more mutants" debacle. many x-men have not been seen or featured since that day. meanwhile, things continue to get worse and worse for the ones we do have left with no end in sight.

[Arya]

I also think Marvel is right. That the X-Men sell when they have their backs pushed to the wall and when they have to do what they must to survive.

DOFP, Operation: Zero Tolerance, and a number of themes that had to do with direct human bigotry and sentinels showed that. Then there was the legacy virus, the Phalanx, etc. Only in the 21st century they decided to show other threats. First a crazy Scarlet Witch. Now the terrigen mists. We know at some point they'll fix this and move on to the next threat.

They sold more before or after that when they could do the role Stan Lee designed for them. They were the minority metaphor. Robbing them of that to play survivalists robs them of the role that could help grow the franchise and Marvel's new readers. The more this goes on the more I am convinced that Marvel is scared to develop the metaphor and tell stories that could actually challenge the status quo.

[Iron Fist]

They sold more before or after that when they could do the role Stan Lee designed for them. They were the minority metaphor. Robbing them of that to play survivalists robs them of the role that could help grow the franchise and Marvel's new readers. The more this goes on the more I am convinced that Marvel is scared to develop the metaphor and tell stories that could actually challenge the status quo.

But Marvel doesn't want to challenge the status quo, the X-Men stopped being decent metaphors for the oppressed when they became popular. Now it's all about drama and extinction because they sell, and books that challenge the status quo are usually sleeper hits (like Sandman) and Marvel would rather cash grab with the X-Men than risk sales for 'experimental' stories.

Plus add on that Marvel doesn't to give Fox anything decent to work with on the X-Men movies it's even more reasons that the mutants are retreading old House of M ground.

If you want stories that challenge preconceived notions about society Marvel isn't going to do them with the X-Men, more likely with the lesser franchises like Power Man & Iron Fist, Inhumans, Ms Marvel, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur etc.

[Arya]

But Marvel doesn't want to challenge the status quo, the X-Men stopped being decent metaphors for the oppressed when they became popular. Now it's all about drama and extinction because they sell, and books that challenge the status quo are usually sleeper hits (like Sandman) and Marvel would rather cash grab with the X-Men than risk sales for 'experimental' stories.

Plus add on that Marvel doesn't to give Fox anything decent to work with on the X-Men movies it's even more reasons that the mutants are retreading old House of M ground.

If you want stories that challenge preconceived notions about society Marvel isn't going to do them with the X-Men, more likely with the lesser franchises like Power Man & Iron Fist, Inhumans, Ms Marvel, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur etc.

The inhumans are the status quo. So what are you talking about? At the height of their popularity the x-men had no problem being the metaphor and making it work, so again what are you talking about?

Fox doesn't need Marvel's help. They already have it with 30 years of stories. Again why stifle creative development with the X-men when marvel still makes money off of them. Sharing larger profits is better than sharing none. Your post is a perfect example of why fans don't understand the metaphor. How do any of the properties you mentioned advance the minority metaphor?

[Iron Fist]

The inhumans are the status quo. So what are you talking about? At the height of their popularity the x-men had no problem being the metaphor and making it work, so again what are you talking about?

Fox doesn't need Marvel's help. They already have it with 30 years of stories. Again why stifle creative development with the X-men when marvel still makes money off of them. Sharing larger profits is better than sharing none. Your post is a perfect example of why fans don't understand the metaphor. How do any of the properties you mentioned advance the minority metaphor?

How don't they? They're all minorities or people of colour and they're all franchises Marvel have 100% of the rights to.

The height of the X-Men popularity was like 20 years ago, you can't just assume that formula still works today because it wouldn't, Claremont's X-Men Forever and X-Treme X-Men proved that nostalgia and old formulas don't sell books anymore. So that's what I am talking about.

Stifle creativity because why help Fox make money? From a business point of view it's much easier to just make and build up new franchises to take the X-Men place rather than settle for a percentage of profit.

I understand the minority metaphor perfectly, the problem is people thinking the X-Men have any claim to that metaphor to begin with. They haven't touched it for over a decade, why act like it's so integral now? Other franchises are doing it and doing it better, and besides it's time the X-Men learned a new trick rather than extinction and minority persecution stories. Hopefully these new shake ups will make those happen.

[Arya]

They touched it with Gillen and he excelled at it. They touched with Storm's doomed solo. They touched it with Xfactor and Legion and.... Have you read them? Why help fox make money? Because they would be making more money doing that than what they are doing now.

They tried the new trick with Morrison and Marvel decided it was to much and no more mutants. The story of minority empowerment is timeless when written well. It gets stale when marvel forces the X-men to stay playing in their sand box and being survivalists. That's on marvel. Marvel could be making more money by supporting the X-men than undermining it. The other properties are failing just look at how dismal the inhumans are doing. I love the ultimates but they aren't tackling more complex fare. They are being super hero's, that's boring. Kamala khan is but none of the others are. It's the same tired stuff across the entire marvel line and if you doubt that then look at civil war 2.

Uncanny Avengers is a farce. Give me another marvel book that is doing it better.

[ChronoRogue]

How don't they? They're all minorities or people of colour and they're all franchises Marvel have 100% of the rights to.

The height of the X-Men popularity was like 20 years ago, you can't just assume that formula still works today because it wouldn't, Claremont's X-Men Forever and X-Treme X-Men proved that nostalgia and old formulas don't sell books anymore. So that's what I am talking about.

Stifle creativity because why help Fox make money? From a business point of view it's much easier to just make and build up new franchises to take the X-Men place rather than settle for a percentage of profit.

I understand the minority metaphor perfectly, the problem is people thinking the X-Men have any claim to that metaphor to begin with. They haven't touched it for over a decade, why act like it's so integral now? Other franchises are doing it and doing it better, and besides it's time the X-Men learned a new trick rather than extinction and minority persecution stories. Hopefully these new shake ups will make those happen.

The height of anyone's popularity was 20 years ago. Comics just don't make that much money anymore (in this medium anyway).

Claremont's not the only one that developed the minority metaphor.

If anything, I'd argue the 00s (Grant Morrison in particular) fleshed out it fully as an emerging culture because writers showed things like distinct populations of mutant communities (Valle Solleda, District X, Genosha, etc...), mutant movements and corporations (X Corp, Quentin's revolt, Magneto's advertisements for Genosha, etc...), and mutants integrating and clashing with the mainstream that didn't necessarily begin or end with the X-Men. But Joe Q felt like they had too big a population and did HoM, purposely or inadvertently destroying the mutants ability to be portrayed like an actual minority.

And I don't know what to say on other franchises doing it better. Or can think of one's who focused on the concept like the X-Men... If you're referring to the Inhumans or Atlanteans, they were isolationists and didn't willingly interact with anyone unless they forced to or felt like they were being threatened. They acted more like foreign countries than anything. Minorities have to deal with concepts like assimilation and integration, dealing with the majorities culture and power. And move on??? It's the core concept!

They didn't have the numbers to back it up, but the survivalist rhetoric depends on the backdrop of the mutants having a healthy population before their extinction. That's not history Marvel can erase. It's their ideal and what they want to get back to, so it's not like HoM wiped out the metaphor in context, it happened and is not ignorable. It just meant writers couldn't portray the subtler aspects of being a minority anymore and had to write the X-Men extremely militant instead of the peace-keepers they were supposed to represent (limiting what they could do with them development wise).

[yogaflame]

They sold more before or after that when they could do the role Stan Lee designed for them. They were the minority metaphor. Robbing them of that to play survivalists robs them of the role that could help grow the franchise and Marvel's new readers. The more this goes on the more I am convinced that Marvel is scared to develop the metaphor and tell stories that could actually challenge the status quo.

Boom.

This is why we can't expect great stories from a mega-corporation like Disney-Marvel. Mutants, taken to their logical conclusions, transcend all the foundations of the status quo, be that nations and banks, the military-industrial complex, religions and even the very notion of what it means to be human(including race, gender, and sexuality).

We'll just have to accept the great stories of the past were the zenith for this franchise.

The X-Men are dead.

Long live the X-Men!

[Knives]

They sold more before or after that when they could do the role Stan Lee designed for them. They were the minority metaphor. Robbing them of that to play survivalists robs them of the role that could help grow the franchise and Marvel's new readers. The more this goes on the more I am convinced that Marvel is scared to develop the metaphor and tell stories that could actually challenge the status quo.

That's exactly what I think it's been about 10 years since the X-men's fight against extinction think it's time to turn that page.

There is many interesting things happening in the world today involving minorities, exiles and refugees who would give great stories. Marvel missed a great opportunity with the supposed mutant revolution but patience as a fan can only keep waiting. Not the life of the X-mens should be easy someday just hope for something new or something close to it do not know for what reason Shield may not have a mutant team trained to deal with mutants issues making a connection with the government for example ?

Can not understand it except to marvel not want the X-mens move forward.

[MarvelMaster616]

I also think Marvel is right. That the X-Men sell when they have their backs pushed to the wall and when they have to do what they must to survive.

DOFP, Operation: Zero Tolerance, and a number of themes that had to do with direct human bigotry and sentinels showed that. Then there was the legacy virus, the Phalanx, etc. Only in the 21st century they decided to show other threats. First a crazy Scarlet Witch. Now the terrigen mists. We know at some point they'll fix this and move on to the next threat.

I don't disagree that the X-men are at their best when they have their backs against the wall. I think that has created some of the best X-men stories of all time. What sets this Inhuman conflict apart is that for one, it's recycling a conflict that was just recently resolved three years ago. The X-men just finished fixing the effects of House of M. Now, they're back at square one with the same issue: extinction and sterilization. There are other ways for the X-men to have their back against the walls. Why does it have to be the same story we got less than a decade ago?

Second, the current situation feels a lot more forced. If the mutant/Inhuman war hadn't happened off-panel, then I think the current comics would have more impact. Instead, the transition from Uncanny X-men #600 to Extraordinary X-men #1 might as well have been another universe. And the fact that the Inhumans reap all the benefits, now copying the X-men's themes rather than expanding on the themes that made them unique, makes it feel petty on Marvel's part. They're supposed to be the House of Ideas. But I think these ideas are sorely lacking.