X-men vs. Inhumans Discussion

[Arya]

That's exactly what I think it's been about 10 years since the X-men's fight against extinction think it's time to turn that page.

There is many interesting things happening in the world today involving minorities, exiles and refugees who would give great stories. Marvel missed a great opportunity with the supposed mutant revolution but patience as a fan can only keep waiting. Not the life of the X-mens should be easy someday just hope for something new or something close to it do not know for what reason Shield may not have a mutant team trained to deal with mutants issues making a connection with the government for example ?

Can not understand it except to marvel not want the X-mens move forward.

No argument from me. I agree. It was time to turn the page 10 years ago. I was shocked when Bendis had Wanda do her spell, now I think it set a new precedent, one that was designed from jump to undermine any voice against the big three or the world Marvel wanted to create. I still don't understand why it was so unruly to have so many mutants running around back then. I have an idea but I will save that for later.

[Arya]

Boom.

This is why we can't expect great stories from a mega-corporation like Disney-Marvel. Mutants, taken to their logical conclusions, transcend all the foundations of the status quo, be that nations and banks, the military-industrial complex, religions and even the very notion of what it means to be human(including race, gender, and sexuality).

We'll just have to accept the great stories of the past were the zenith for this franchise.

The X-Men are dead.

Long live the X-Men!

I don't buy that. There are still great stories to be told we just need a change in leadership.

[adameastment]

I've been trying to think how I can make a genuine contribution to this thread.

But I think I have it.

So, I've been into comics for about 3 to 4 years now, and in that time I've bought a grand total of 19 Inhumans books. In the same time, I have over 100 books featuring X-Men, arguably if I go by "featuring" then Infinity would boost their numbers slightly. What does that have to do with anything? Not a lot, but when you consider that in that time X-Men have had both a Wolverine and X-Men movie in that time in which Marvel will obviously want to gain some followers with. Yes, I know I'm talking about purely a business model at the moment, but that is what Marvel are - a business, obviously I don't want to sound patronising there.

But realistically, from the perspective of someone who hasn't really had time to delve into the history of the Inhumans but has tried to get an awful lot of X-Men back issues and trades I will say that I love the fact that the Mutants fate almost lies with the hands of the Inhumans, I know we don't have many details on any of the stories so far, but the catalyst for the Mutants contracting M-Pox is down to the Inhumans releasing the terrigen mists, which not only the Mutants but the Inhumans condemn too. Which I think lends itself to storytelling, the Inhumans status-quo within the Marvel Universe has to change because of that. It can't not change.

Maybe there is a status-quo change within the Marvel Offices too, but personally, I think it's too soon to comment on that. I'm enjoying the first issues of Extraordinary and All-New X-Men. I don't really think there is a massive change, but the argument that some "not quite so good writers" are on them is silly. Jeff LeMire is a great writer, from what I've heard All-New Hawkeye is great, why should Extraordinary X-Men be any different? I thought it was a great #1. Cullen Bunn going on to the Uncanny X-Men? I think that is a great choice, his run on Magneto was one of my personal favourites. He knows how to write Magneto, and hopefully he will be able to write a team based around some unsavoury characters.

At the end of the day, I'm on the fence as to whether or not Marvel are trying to out the Mutant population. I don't think they are, but I think they're obviously going to try and push the Inhumans. Why wouldn't they try to push them? They're featuring in a hit TV show and are going to be releasing a movie with them in, in 2019. There is the obvious reaction of seemingly retconning certain aspects of their lore - but how do we know that? We're into issues #2 of All-New Inhumans and Uncanny Inhumans soon, the previous run focusing on the Inhuman royal family rather than the Inhumans as a whole therefore not exploring the worldwide effects of the Terrigen Cloud.

I do think though, that the X-Men need to drop the "we're on the road to extinction" storyline though, it's only three years since AvX happened.

[redrunner97]

I don't disagree that the X-men are at their best when they have their backs against the wall. I think that has created some of the best X-men stories of all time. What sets this Inhuman conflict apart is that for one, it's recycling a conflict that was just recently resolved three years ago. The X-men just finished fixing the effects of House of M. Now, they're back at square one with the same issue: extinction and sterilization. There are other ways for the X-men to have their back against the walls. Why does it have to be the same story we got less than a decade ago?

I strongly agree with this.

Second, the current situation feels a lot more forced. If the mutant/Inhuman war hadn't happened off-panel, then I think the current comics would have more impact. Instead, the transition from Uncanny X-men #600 to Extraordinary X-men #1 might as well have been another universe.

And I agreed with this part of your post as well; up until this statement:

And the fact that the Inhumans reap all the benefits, [Inhumans are] now copying the X-men's themes rather than expanding on the themes that made them unique, makes it feel petty on Marvel's part. They're supposed to be the House of Ideas. But I think these ideas are sorely lacking.

What frustrates me about this discussion is that I COMPLETELY AGREE with 99% of whats said, until comments like these get looped in at the end; It's just not true.

The Inhumans aren't now, nor have they recently been persecuted or prejudiced against by society. The only negative encounters they've had with humans are villains like Kang the Conqueror, and racist political extremists like in All-New Inhumans. And neither of those examples reflect western society, which views Inhumans very positively. The current Inhumans books are indeed tackling similar issues of diversity (as they always have for last 50 years), except that they're doing so from a different perspective than the X-Men.

While in past years Marvel did not promote the X-Men as much as they could have, Fox and Marvel together are now working on two X-Men related tv shows. Legion tv show and the Hellfire Club tv show. So just as MCU has expanded, Fox is finally expanding the X-Men Universe. New Mutants, Deadpool, and Gambit will have their movies. Plus Fox stepped up their game in the X-Men Universe.

This can only be interpreted as a positive sign. I'm ever hopeful that a change is on the horizon for the X-Men!

As for Cyclops dying, GREAT. He is one of my favorite character, but he was written as increasingly dictatorial and tyrannical BEFORE AvX. At the end of that event he kills Professor Xavier. Thank god we have teen Cyclops around to replace him. Thank goodness the o5 are here and have given the X-Men franchise a huge breathe of fresh air.

I COMPLETELY agree! Cyclops is one of my Top 10 favorite heroes of all time, but I don't like where he has been taken (as an pseudo-antagonistic antihero)... which is why I'm genuinely hoping the young versions of the O5 fully/permanently replace their older counterparts in this Apocalypse event. Because I want the X-Men to be heroes again; it doesn't need to be complicated.

"Young Man Cyclops" is still a hero, with hope to offer the mutant race -not anger. He's untainted by the shit that effectively ruined older Cyclops. The same can be said about Jean Grey, and even Beast (to a lesser extent). Iceman not so much, but I do love the fact that his younger character (in particular) is being taken to such cool and interesting places -places where the X-Men thrive.

Now on Marvel farming out some X-Men and FF characters to other franchises, they did. But it's not entirely bad. I was not happy to see Kitty join Guardians of the Galaxy. But I was happy to see Rogue join the Avengers. Because of the movies they made Rogue lose her Ms. Marvel powers and I hated how people like Carey wrote her (he just had her copying people's powers and acting as just a teacher). So I was happy to see her join Uncanny Avengers and absorb Wonder Man to become a powerhouse again.

Adult Beast joined the Inhumans? Fine with that. It allowed Forge to come back as the X-Men's tech expert/scientist, and they still have teen Beast. Even after HOM and after the terrigen mists the X-Men have so many characters a lot of them just fall back into the background and are never really seen or used. So if other franchises have use for some mutants I am happy to see some of them go, as it makes room for other characters.

I would actually like to see Polaris join the Avengers. Now Marvel has left things open for Magneto being the father of Wanda and Pietro (after there was doubt it still hasn't been resolved). So if they restore the twins to being Magneto's children, I would like to see Polaris join the Avengers. She's underutilized as an X-Man.

Agreed with most of what you posted. Particular the bit about Polaris, Wanda, and Pietro.

At this point I don't see why Marvel doesn't just make them (Wanda/Pietro) Magneto's children again -not to say I don't like how it's freed them up a bit, from him- because they've already got them physically in the MCU. At this point it's not serving much of a purpose whatsoever (if it ever really did), and I don't see how they can still justify not having them be his kids.

I really think you're onto something here:

At the end of the day, I'm on the fence as to whether or not Marvel are trying to out the Mutant population. I don't think they are, but I think they're obviously going to try and push the Inhumans. Why wouldn't they try to push them? They're featuring in a hit TV show and are going to be releasing a movie with them in, in 2019.

This helped me put to words a feeling I've had for a while that was very difficult to explain.

In an overall sense, the fate of the X-Men and Inhumans are not as intertwined as some seem to think. It's not like they can't coexist. The X-Men being successful again won't dampen Marvel's desire to push the Inhumans, likewise the Inhumans' push failing won't make the X-Men any better treated by Marvel. This idea that "it's one or the other" is toxic and fueling a lot of unnecessary fan-rage. Let's say Marvel isn't seeking to push out the X-Men, that wouldn't automatically mean they'd stop wanting the Inhumans to be a success too.

But realistically, from the perspective of someone who hasn't really had time to delve into the history of the Inhumans but has tried to get an awful lot of X-Men back issues and trades I will say that I love the fact that the Mutants fate almost lies with the hands of the Inhumans, I know we don't have many details on any of the stories so far, but the catalyst for the Mutants contracting M-Pox is down to the Inhumans releasing the terrigen mists, which not only the Mutants but the Inhumans condemn too. Which I think lends itself to storytelling, the Inhumans status-quo within the Marvel Universe has to change because of that. It can't not change.

Absolutely! Seeing the X-Men fight against across-the-board extinction again is both tiresome and UNWANTED by the fans.

Furthermore, I also agree that this story seems to be geered towards changing the Inhumans' position in the Marvel universe. Hell, this story will probably resolve the T-cloud, that alone would make things change drastically for the Inhumans by ceasing the NuHuman epidemic. Not to mention what other effects it has on them; or even how the X-Men come out of this. IMO, this story has a lot of potential to actually better both brands, especially if it's resolved appropriately and quickly. Yes it's all doom and gloom now, but a solution (if written well) could shift this world into the position to allow both a much more warranted place (for the X-Men that could even mean not staring down the barrel of a gun for the foreseeable future... the cure to the cloud's effects could even cause MORE mutants for all we know; so it's best to let this story progress more before judging it).

[donpricetag]

Someone's brought up the idea of the Inhumans originally being more Game of Thrones than X-Men, so them trying to take on the X-Men premise is a bit shortsighted. I means cmon, can you picture GoT with super powers and futuristic technology. If they gone the route of showing us that the Inhumans aren't actually worried about World affairs and are more interested in maintaining their society, I think it would be going over better.

Going through the mist (historically) is like becoming part of noble house/clan or if they are strong/influential enough, starting their own. With thousands of NuHumans literally springing up over night and more every day, that class system should be thrown into chaos. I think that makes for a better story. You'd think it'd be hard to approach a newly made Inhuman, especially a charismatic one and tell them to fall in line. I think it's much more likely they'd start their own groups that could easily turn into their own "house" or rival monarchy. I guess at least one book would have to deal with management of NuHumans, so All New Inhumans could still tow that line, but behind the scenes of the greater problem, "Inhuman internal power struggles".

[norj]

Someone's brought up the idea of the Inhumans originally being more Game of Thrones than X-Men, so them trying to take on the X-Men premise is a bit shortsighted. I means cmon, can you picture GoT with super powers and futuristic technology. If they gone the route of showing us that the Inhumans aren't actually worried about World affairs and are more interested in maintaining their society, I think it would be going over better.

Going through the mist (historically) is like becoming part of noble house/clan or if they are strong/influential enough, starting their own. With thousands of NuHumans literally springing up over night and more every day, that class system should be thrown into chaos. I think that makes for a better story. You'd think it'd be hard to approach a newly made Inhuman, especially a charismatic one and tell them to fall in line. I think it's much more likely they'd start their own groups that could easily turn into their own "house" or rival monarchy. I guess at least one book would have to deal with management of NuHumans, so All New Inhumans could still tow that line, but behind the scenes of the greater problem, "Inhuman internal power struggles".

A Nuhuman named Lineage has already tried to overthrow the old guard and at least 2 different Inhuman factions have attacked New Attilan.

[redrunner97]

Yeah, Lineage tried to overthrow the Royal Family, as did the Capo (from Ennilux). Also Lash (from Orrolan) attacked them for not respecting the sacredness of terrigen, and they were also attacked by Red Raven and his bird-people because the terrigen disrupted their inbred Inhuman genes.

So there has been a lot of those 'royal Game of Thrones' elements still being used by Charles Soule.

IMO, the fun part is the culture clash between NuHumans and the odd idiosyncrasies of Inhuman culture; like taking a strange new name, or bowing down to the Queen (two things several NuHumans have refused to do).

[Myetche]

IMO, the fun part is the culture clash between NuHumans and the odd idiosyncrasies of Inhuman culture; like taking a strange new name, or bowing down to the Queen (two things several NuHumans have refused to do).

Kamala Khan being the most notable example of a new Inhuman who refuses to abandon her human life because some long-haired hussy wants her to.

[MarvelMaster616]

Kamala Khan being the most notable example of a new Inhuman who refuses to abandon her human life because some long-haired hussy wants her to.

And that's just one of the many things that make her so lovable.

On top of that, her first major crossover was with Wolverine. She even admitted that she writes X-men fanfiction, specifically Storm/Wolverine fanfiction. She's at least a billion times more likable than any other Inhumans character (and most Marvel characters in general).

[redrunner97]

I love Kamala, and her stance on being an Inhuman (emphasis on the human) is one of the things I like most about her character.

Frank McGee is another NuHuman who won't bow down to Queen Medusa, and absolutely refused his Inhuman name "Nur" on the grounds that it was both stupid and not something he identifies himself with. Others like Naja, who prefers the Inhuman lifestyle of a new identity and considers herself an all-new person, are just as fascinating. I'm still waiting on getting more of her backstory, she came across very scarred to me. I have a feeling her life prior to the T-Bomb was very unhappy.

The cool thing about NuHumans is that they come from all walks of life, and all ages. You could just as easily have an enfant be transformed by the T-cloud as you would an elderly person. That's a pretty big difference to mutants that I think often times get overlooked, as well.

[Myetche]

Others like Naja, who prefers the Inhuman lifestyle of a new identity and considers herself an all-new person, are just as fascinating. I'm still waiting on getting more of her backstory, she came across very scarred to me. I have a feeling her life prior to the T-Bomb was very unhappy.

I think I heard that Naja used to be a fashion model who became disgusted at how everybody only saw her for her physical appearance, so being Inhuman meant that she was no longer forced to conform to the shallow standards of human beauty.

[Knives]

Kamala Khan being the most notable example of a new Inhuman who refuses to abandon her human life because some long-haired hussy wants her to.

I admit hate this plot with the inhuman mist killing mutants but if have any positive thing that came out of this mess is Kamala in a short time became a fan .

So what happens between inhumans and mutants this will not change.

[BroHomo]

I love Kamala, and her stance on being an Inhuman (emphasis on the human) is one of the things I like most about her character.

Frank McGee is another NuHuman who won't bow down to Queen Medusa, and absolutely refused his Inhuman name "Nur" on the grounds that it was both stupid and not something he identifies himself with. Others like Naja, who prefers the Inhuman lifestyle of a new identity and considers herself an all-new person, are just as fascinating. I'm still waiting on getting more of her backstory, she came across very scarred to me. I have a feeling her life prior to the T-Bomb was very unhappy.

The cool thing about NuHumans is that they come from all walks of life, and all ages. You could just as easily have an enfant be transformed by the T-cloud as you would an elderly person. That's a pretty big difference to mutants that I think often times get overlooked, as well.

That is exactly like mutants lol

I think I heard that Naja used to be a fashion model who became disgusted at how everybody only saw her for her physical appearance, so being Inhuman meant that she was no longer forced to conform to the shallow standards of human beauty.

kinda like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bertha_(comics)

Yeah, Lineage tried to overthrow the Royal Family, as did the Capo (from Ennilux). Also Lash (from Orrolan) attacked them for not respecting the sacredness of terrigen, and they were also attacked by Red Raven and his bird-people because the terrigen disrupted their inbred Inhuman genes.

So there has been a lot of those 'royal Game of Thrones' elements still being used by Charles Soule.

IMO, the fun part is the culture clash between NuHumans and the odd idiosyncrasies of Inhuman culture; like taking a strange new name, or bowing down to the Queen (two things several NuHumans have refused to do).

I feel like thats extremely disrespectful . They are taking in these refugees and they refuse to obey the rules...Nah Also I looooved the inner political drama with the Inhumans ....the flying chick vs. Nahress? was awesome. But this ....this is sort of like the Neo or lupines vs the X-Men

[Arya]

That is exactly like mutants, from the neo to the morlocks to the Genoshans and everywhere in between there is no difference between the inhumans and mutants on that score.

[adameastment]

That is exactly like mutants lol

No, it isn't. Mutants generally "get" their mutation around puberty right? The point that was trying to be made was that the current Terrigen Cloud can make anyone and everyone into an Inhuman (providing the right dna). Prior to now it's been a select few who got terrigenisis, rather than anyone with an X gene.

I'm not saying that it's miles different however, but the whole idea of the Inhumans was to have a secular secret society. Which does still remain, yes it does reflect the xmen but it doesn't make them the same.

I feel like thats extremely disrespectful . They are taking in these refugees and they refuse to obey the rules...Nah Also I looooved the inner political drama with the Inhumans ....the flying chick vs. Nahress? was awesome. But this ....this is sort of like the Neo or lupines vs the X-Men

I don't think it's disrespectful at all. If you went through that kind of change then to be told you must bow before your queen whom you had no idea existed beforehand could well irk some people, I know it'd annoy me.