X-men vs. Inhumans Discussion

[redrunner97]

That is exactly like mutants lol

No it's not.
There are no post-menopausal women suddenly "becoming" mutants.... but an elderly Inhuman woman could easily be transformed by the T-cloud.

You people act like the NuHumans are all teenagers struggling through puberty and trying to fit in, when there are grown women (like Naja, presumably) who are NuHumans, retired men in their 50's (like Nur/Frank McGee), young adults (like Inferno), teenagers (like Flint and Iso), and even infants (like Inferno's nephew) who have been transformed. If you can't distinguish between Inhumans (even NuHumans) and mutants, it's because you're choosing not to.

kinda like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bertha_(comics)

Yeah. Because that's what Naja is.... not a snake-woman who can blend into anything, she's a big fat woman from the midwest who vomits to make herself regular-sized n between fighting crime. Jesus. Why does every single Inhuman character have to be compared to a mutant? I don't see people saying Wolverine's a rip-off of Gorgon because he has an awesome beard, an abrasive personality, and are loosely based on both a goat and wolverine respectively... (but that would be stupid, right?).

I feel like thats extremely disrespectful . They are taking in these refugees and they refuse to obey the rules...Nah Also I looooved the inner political drama with the Inhumans ....the flying chick vs. Nahress? was awesome. But this ....this is sort of like the Neo or lupines vs the X-Men

Neither party is being disrespectful in that scenario.

Medusa resents Black Bolt for unleashing the T-Bomb, and feels responsible for what he did since she was his Queen. Now she's the sole ruler, accepting in these "refugees" (if they can really even be called that, since most of them aren't seeking refuge from anything at all), and trying to assist them in any way she can.

And the NuHumans have a right to be angry, these alien beings crashed down to Earth, unleashed a deadly chemical weapon into the atmosphere and it uprooted their entire life. They're not natural citizens of Attilan, and the royal family has been careful not to be pushy. They're accomodating the NuHumans as best they can -but that doesn't stop some natural citizens of Attilan from seeing the NuHuman as undeserving of terrgenesis or, in some cases, unruly for not obeying or bowing down to the royal family. They're very defensive over their royalty.

[Arya]

Us people interesting. Mutantcy affects people at any age with the vast majority of mutants getting their powers during puberty but when the Phoenix restarted the x gene that went out the window. You are also ignoring the diversity of mutants by ignoring the simple fact that it can affect anyone or manifest at any age. We have had mutant fetuses, mutant cats, mutant bacteria. The x gene has a lot of diversity.

[Psi-Lord]

No it's not.
There are no post-menopausal women suddenly "becoming" mutants.... but an elderly Inhuman woman could easily be transformed by the T-cloud.

You people act like the NuHumans are all teenagers struggling through puberty and trying to fit in, when there are grown women (like Naja, presumably) who are NuHumans, retired men in their 50's (like Nur/Frank McGee), young adults (like Inferno), teenagers (like Flint and Iso), and even infants (like Inferno's nephew) who have been transformed. If you can't distinguish between Inhumans (even NuHumans) and mutants, it's because you're choosing not to.

(…)

Us people interesting. Mutantcy affects people at any age with the vast majority of mutants getting their powers during puberty but when the Phoenix restarted the x gene that went out the window. You are also ignoring the diversity of mutants by ignoring the simple fact that it can affect anyone or manifest at any age. We have had mutant fetuses, mutant cats, mutant bacteria. The x gene has a lot of diversity.

Arya is right, Black Bolt. It's unlikely, but not impossible, that a mutant manifest their power in their not-teenage years, mainly after the Phoenix Force restarted the X-Gene. Centennial is a mutant who manifested his powers only in his elderly years. Omega is a mutant who manifested his powers when he was an adult. Both Cable and Franklin Richards manifested their powers at an early age.

However, it needs to be stated that the manifestation of a mutant's power in any other age but their teenage years is extremely rare, and there's a much larger number of Nuhumans that do manifest their powers when they're not teens.

(…)

Yeah. Because that's what Naja is.... not a snake-woman who can blend into anything, she's a big fat woman from the midwest who vomits to make herself regular-sized n between fighting crime. Jesus. Why does every single Inhuman character have to be compared to a mutant? I don't see people saying Wolverine's a rip-off of Gorgon because he has an awesome beard, an abrasive personality, and are loosely based on both a goat and wolverine respectively... (but that would be stupid, right?).

(…)

I think what they meant is that Naja is like Big Bertha in the sense that they were both models who embraced their appearance-altering powers because "[they] became disgusted at how everybody only saw [them] for [their] physical appearance, so being Inhuman[/Mutant] meant that [they were] no longer forced to conform to the shallow standards of human beauty," not that they had the same powers. However, I don't know if either story is true, as I know neither Naja nor Big Bertha.

[Complexed]

Key phrase, Latent Mutant Genes.

[Myetche]

I think what they meant is that Naja is like Big Bertha in the sense that they were both models who embraced their appearance-altering powers because "[they] became disgusted at how everybody only saw [them] for [their] physical appearance, so being Inhuman[/Mutant] meant that [they were] no longer forced to conform to the shallow standards of human beauty." However, I don't know if either story is true, as I know neither Naja nor Big Bertha.

To my knowledge, Bertha still performs and loves her modeling career (among other things, it helps fund the GL Avengers).

[redrunner97]

Us people interesting. Mutantcy affects people at any age with the vast majority of mutants getting their powers during puberty but when the Phoenix restarted the x gene that went out the window. You are also ignoring the diversity of mutants by ignoring the simple fact that it can affect anyone or manifest at any age. We have had mutant fetuses, mutant cats, mutant bacteria. The x gene has a lot of diversity.

I meant "you people" in the broader sense of "anti-Inhuman people"; not X-fans obviously, as I'm an X-fan and I don't share that viewpoint (and presumably lots of other X-fans don't either). I should've further clarified exactly who I was directing that particular frustration towards.

Arya is right, Black Bolt. It's unlikely, but not impossible, that a mutant manifest their power in their not-teenage years, mainly after the Phoenix Force restarted the X-Gene. Centennial is a mutant who manifested his powers only in his elderly years. Omega is a mutant who manifested his powers when he was an adult. Both Cable and Franklin Richards manifested their powers at an early age.

However, it needs to be stated that the manifestation of a mutant's power in any other age but their teenage years is extremely rare, and there's a much larger number of Nuhumans that do manifest their powers when they're not teens.

Absolutely. Mutants manifesting powers at any age other than around puberty is abnormal, but not unheard of.
It's just with NuHumans, it's the norm. A grandmother or an embryo, either can become powered by terrigenesis providing they have Inhuman DNA.

Even in the MCU there has only been adults exposed to terrigen so far. I'm just saying that's a difference between the two that's often overlooked.

I think what they meant is that Naja is like Big Bertha in the sense that they were both models who embraced their appearance-altering powers because "[they] became disgusted at how everybody only saw [them] for [their] physical appearance, so being Inhuman[/Mutant] meant that [they were] no longer forced to conform to the shallow standards of human beauty." However, I don't know if either story is true, as I know neither Naja nor Big Bertha.

I interpreted that comment as a deliberate jab at Naja's character (and Inhumans in general), like they were saying "she's yet another a blatant rip-off of an existing mutant".
Maybe I took it the wrong way, but that's how I read it.

To my knowledge, Bertha still performs and loves her modeling career (among other things, it helps fund the GL Avengers).

IIRC, in Great Lakes Avengers she was actively a model and could make herself look beautiful when she wanted by purging the fat from her body, right?
Whereas Naja is now fully commited to life as a NuHuman because in Inhuman society everyone is different and thus equal, so there's not any "perfect model" to try and achieve.

[Prisoner 6655321]

While it's been mentioned many, many times in the past and I certainly agree with it to some extent that the X-men work as a kinda metaphor for oppressed minority groups I think there's some bit of danger in equating the similarities for being the same thing. Mutants are not (but many individual mutants certainly are), PoC, LGBT or any other real world cultural minorities / oppressed groups, they're mutants… and yes, in the 616 they're an oppressed minority but the fate of mutant kind should not be viewed as entirely representative of real life minority groups. An attack on mutantkind is not the same thing as an attack on any real life minority group. I don't think Marvel was saying with the creation of Utopia that minorities should go live on an island with “their own kind”.

I'm not saying he is / was anymore free from hubris than them but the X-leadership since the good Professor stepped down are guilty of just as bad and far “worse” things than the Professor ever pulled off. The absurdity of Cyclops (well intended) actions for the past several years is not lost on me. He's acted as pretty much the unilateral leader of mutant kind, even going so far to create a nation-state. Sure, he wasn't quite a malevolent dictator, he let the Jean Grey Academy exist, he didn't hunt down mutants who simply refused to play along but at the end of the day, even if he didn't accept the title he certainly filled the role of king which he had no right to. On top of everything else, I think Cyclops use of the Phoenix egg in Secret Wars clears away any illusion of innocence in the death of Professor X. Sure, he was under the influence of the Phoenix force and not in his right mind when he killed the Professor but the second a really major threat appears he decides to take the whole Phoenix on himself. It's almost like if a drunk driver killed a kid and said “oh, sorry, I was under the influence, I promise I'll quit drinking” and then a few months later they start guzzling down a half gallon of Old Crow with some Turner's tea.

The aspect of this story that appeals to me the most is the hubris shared by many of the mutant and Inhuman leaders in the past several years. I'm not going so far to say Cyclops, Beast, Black Bolt and others were acting with anything less than the best intentions but they (and others to some extent) were all acting with extreme hubris and now mutant and Inhuman kind are paying the price.

Personally, I really want to see Hope and Kid Omega shine here. The two of them kinda represent the next generation of mutant leaders and while they're both very flawed individuals they don't have the sort of hubris (though Quire is a reckless snot who messes up constantly) that the older generation of X leaders possess and I would argue, both in their own way kinda represent Professor X's dream more than any of the more established X-Men have for a very long time.

[WallStreeter]

No argument from me. I agree. It was time to turn the page 10 years ago. I was shocked when Bendis had Wanda do her spell, now I think it set a new precedent, one that was designed from jump to undermine any voice against the big three or the world Marvel wanted to create. I still don't understand why it was so unruly to have so many mutants running around back then. I have an idea but I will save that for later.

Before decimation I did have a problem with not the actual number of mutants but how they were used.

The New Mutants were supposed to be the next generation of X-Men. Okay they eventually morphed into X-force. Then Marvel decides Gen X is the next generation of X-Men. Some former New Mutants don't even make X-Force and Magik had been killed off long before The Morrison introduces a number of new students and Gen X is mostly pushed to the side. Then after Morrison leaves some of his students are pushed to the side for other new students created.

Every new writer wanted lots of new mutants and seemed to only want to use a few established prior mutants.

In reducing the number of X-Men and students you finally got more characterization of remaining ones and you some characters pushed to the forefront that never might have had anything happen to them.

I'm even happy with Rogue joining the Avengers and permanently absorbing Wonder Man's powers. Because of this Monet finally made the X-Men as a member, something that would not have happened if Rogue was around. I like that Emma Frost is now the great psychic master who trains the young telepaths including Jean Grey. Something that wouldn't have happened if they kept Xavier in the picture. Finally with all the trouble the X-Men have had Magik is finally a core member of the X-Men. Monet is an important member of the X-Men now. Beast has joined the Inhumans, but that meant Forge is back as the team tech person.

[Proto]

I've got a quick question, redrunner97. I've never really followed the Inhumans in any capacity so I'm not really sure how the Terrigen Mist works but I was wondering if you knew if its composition is unique? I've been baffled since this whole storyline was announced cause if it's just mist, why hasn't Storm dispersed it yet? Does the Terrigen Cloud defy physics cause if not this whole big threat can be solved with an oscillating fan.

[Beaubier]

The current Inhuman books are actually quite good IMO, and I have to hesitantly say that I think their quality is better than what we've been presented so far with the current batch of X-books. The writing and art is better in my opinion. ANXM has been bad, Extra has been slow.. ANW is good but easily could be better. I have high hopes for Uncanny, but until then, just calling it like it is. And that's pretty sad because I'm an X-fan above all us. I've liked the Inhumans in the past but I don't like the fact that the X-men are being marginalized to make way for them, and for all of the reasons that the OP pointed out.

I don't think that the Inhuman books themselves are trying to paint the Inhumans as the new mutants, however. Redrunner97 explained that well. The Inhumans are from a xenphobic, alien society that now is forced to cooperate and interact with the outside world in a meaningful way that they've never really had to do before. The Karnak book especially does a very good job of showing this. Its an interesting story, but the infuriating part is the outcome for mutants as a result of it. Why does Marvel have to marginalize the mutants in order to give Inhumans a bigger place in the Marvel U? That's the awful part. Especially when X-fans are treated with what is basically a rehash of the decimation storyline all over again when it was barely resolved in the last major X event. The writers can claim that it is not all they want, but when they're even using the same dialogue over again, they're not fooling anybody.

[WallStreeter]

The current Inhuman books are actually quite good IMO, and I have to hesitantly say that I think their quality is better than what we've been presented so far with the current batch of X-books. The writing and art is better in my opinion. ANXM has been bad, Extra has been slow.. ANW is good but easily could be better. I have high hopes for Uncanny, but until then, just calling it like it is. And that's pretty sad because I'm an X-fan above all us. I've liked the Inhumans in the past but I don't like the fact that the X-men are being marginalized to make way for them, and for all of the reasons that the OP pointed out.

I don't think that the Inhuman books themselves are trying to paint the Inhumans as the new mutants, however. Redrunner97 explained that well. The Inhumans are from a xenphobic, alien society that now is forced to cooperate and interact with the outside world in a meaningful way that they've never really had to do before. The Karnak book especially does a very good job of showing this. Its an interesting story, but the infuriating part is the outcome for mutants as a result of it. Why does Marvel have to marginalize the mutants in order to give Inhumans a bigger place in the Marvel U? That's the awful part. Especially when X-fans are treated with what is basically a rehash of the decimation storyline all over again when it was barely resolved in the last major X event. The writers can claim that it is not all they want, but when they're even using the same dialogue over again, they're not fooling anybody.

Maybe this time they have a good arc prepared for this story, along with the ending properly planned out. AvX ended decimation but it sucked royally. But maybe they have a better plan for the mutants.

I do think initially Marvel expanded the Inhuman population because they don't have the rights to use the mutant population and the Inhumans can fill those roles in the MCU films and tv shows. I had thought things were looking grim for mutants, but fortunately Fox is teaming up with Marvel/Disney to make two live action X-Men shows (Legion and Hellfire). If Marvel and Fox work out more deals we'll see more stuff with mutants including new cartoons. Which we haven't seen in awhile.

[Child of the Past]

The current Inhuman books are actually quite good IMO, and I have to hesitantly say that I think their quality is better than what we've been presented so far with the current batch of X-books. The writing and art is better in my opinion. ANXM has been bad, Extra has been slow.. ANW is good but easily could be better. I have high hopes for Uncanny, but until then, just calling it like it is. And that's pretty sad because I'm an X-fan above all us. I've liked the Inhumans in the past but I don't like the fact that the X-men are being marginalized to make way for them, and for all of the reasons that the OP pointed out.

I don't think that the Inhuman books themselves are trying to paint the Inhumans as the new mutants, however. Redrunner97 explained that well. The Inhumans are from a xenphobic, alien society that now is forced to cooperate and interact with the outside world in a meaningful way that they've never really had to do before. The Karnak book especially does a very good job of showing this. Its an interesting story, but the infuriating part is the outcome for mutants as a result of it. Why does Marvel have to marginalize the mutants in order to give Inhumans a bigger place in the Marvel U? That's the awful part. Especially when X-fans are treated with what is basically a rehash of the decimation storyline all over again when it was barely resolved in the last major X event. The writers can claim that it is not all they want, but when they're even using the same dialogue over again, they're not fooling anybody.

I get being upset that the current X-Men storyline is uninteresting. However, I don't understand how that correlates to the Inhumans being mutants replacements. Everyone seems to accepts this as a forgone conclusion when, just as you stated, the Inhuman books aren't even attempting to do this. Marvel didn't suddenly make an Inhumans cartoon or start selling Inhuman action figures and merchandise. People seem to think that 5+ books for the X-men isn't enough even though last, when there were roughly 8-10 X-Books at any given time they, half of them were either below or slightly above cancellation numbers. There were simply too many X-related books floating around over the last few years that people weren't buying them. In ANAD practically every superhero team has at least three books, including solos. Ultimates, Squadron Supreme, Guardians of the Galaxy, X-Men, Inhumans, and Avengers all have there fair share of books asociated with them. This ultimately allows them to have a greater sense of diversity among their books. Conversely, a character like Deadpool has a myriad of books and merchandise all over the place. It always seems to boggle my mind when people claim Marvel is shoving the Inhumans down our throats yet somehow neglect the absurd levels of promotion Deadpool Spider-Man and the Avengers get. Do you want to know why they're aren't more X-Men books this time around? Just go count how many books have the the word Spider in their title. Off the too of my head I count 7, and that's excluding Silk, Carnage, and Venom. Everyone the Marvel Universe is getting som type of exposure. Just because the X-Men aren't getting as much spotlight as they did years ago doesn't mean Marvel hates them. Likewise, just because the Inhumans are getting more spotlight than they were for the last few decades, it doesn't mean they are replacing the mutants. Until I see Inhumans, getting the same level of promotion as the Avengers, Guardians, or Deadpool, I'm not gonna start blaming their marginal level promotion as the reason for the decline in X-Men promotion.

[Child of the Past]

Maybe this time they have a good arc prepared for this story, along with the ending properly planned out. AvX ended decimation but it sucked royally. But maybe they have a better plan for the mutants.

I do think initially Marvel expanded the Inhuman population because they don't have the rights to use the mutant population and the Inhumans can fill those roles in the MCU films and tv shows. I had thought things were looking grim for mutants, but fortunately Fox is teaming up with Marvel/Disney to make two live action X-Men shows (Legion and Hellfire). If Marvel and Fox work out more deals we'll see more stuff with mutants including new cartoons. Which we haven't seen in awhile.

Are we really supposed to believe Marvel isn't promoting Fox properties. Deadpool is freaking everywhere right now. They gave Hot Toys the license to make a figure of him just in time for the movie and they also have him plastered on a bunch of variants for the next few months. All this combined with the fact that the next X-Men crossover is focusing on Apocalypse only make the anti-X-men rumors look ridiculous.

[Beaubier]

I get being upset that the current X-Men storyline is uninteresting. However, I don't understand how that correlates to the Inhumans being mutants replacements. Everyone seems to accepts this as a forgone conclusion when, just as you stated, the Inhuman books aren't even attempting to do this. Marvel didn't suddenly make an Inhumans cartoon or start selling Inhuman action figures and merchandise. People seem to think that 5+ books for the X-men isn't enough even though last, when there were roughly 8-10 X-Books at any given time they, half of them were either below or slightly above cancellation numbers. There were simply too many X-related books floating around over the last few years that people weren't buying them. In ANAD practically every superhero team has at least three books, including solos. Ultimates, Squadron Supreme, Guardians of the Galaxy, X-Men, Inhumans, and Avengers all have there fair share of books asociated with them. This ultimately allows them to have a greater sense of diversity among their books. Conversely, a character like Deadpool has a myriad of books and merchandise all over the place. It always seems to boggle my mind when people claim Marvel is shoving the Inhumans down our throats yet somehow neglect the absurd levels of promotion Deadpool Spider-Man and the Avengers get. Do you want to know why they're aren't more X-Men books this time around? Just go count how many books have the the word Spider in their title. Off the too of my head I count 7, and that's excluding Silk, Carnage, and Venom. Everyone the Marvel Universe is getting som type of exposure. Just because the X-Men aren't getting as much spotlight as they did years ago doesn't mean Marvel hates them. Likewise, just because the Inhumans are getting more spotlight than they were for the last few decades, it doesn't mean they are replacing the mutants. Until I see Inhumans, getting the same level of promotion as the Avengers, Guardians, or Deadpool, I'm not gonna start blaming their marginal level promotion as the reason for the decline in X-Men promotion.

Well I mean that is literally what is happening in the story. The terrigen cloud is creating new Inhumans at the expense of sterilizing and killing off the mutants. MAYBE Marvel isn't trying to replace mutants with Inhumans behind the scene. But currently in the actual story, the Inhumans are gaining more prominence while the mutant population is being killed off, and -that's- what I was complaining about. I would rather the mutants not be involved at all in the Inhumans storyline.

[Child of the Past]

Well I mean that is literally what is happening in the story. The terrigen cloud is creating new Inhumans at the expense of sterilizing and killing off the mutants. MAYBE Marvel isn't trying to replace mutants with Inhumans behind the scene. But currently in the actual story, the Inhumans are gaining more prominence while the mutant population is being killed off, and -that's- what I was complaining about.

That still doesn't equate to them replacing them, especially not in the sense that everyone seems to ascribed to X-Men. The Inhumans aren't some disenfranchised minority. They are sovereign community that operates among other sovereign enitites arounnd th world/universe. People are acting as if these aspects are being taken away when they are not. Most of the core X-Men are still around and if Marvel wanted to get rid of them there far simpler ways of doing so. Also, how does it seem like a good idea to anyone that Marvel would actively have a group they are trying to promote be the cause of another popular groups extinction. Hell, they could have had the Avengers or FF be responsible for this whole thing or better yet, they could have used any number of villains to be the instigators of this problem. Do you guys really think that any company would use this method to actively promote this one group over another, in 2015-2016. Marvel is spcertainly aware of the all the rumors and speculation going around. They know how angry and paranoid X-Men fans are, so why would they have their so called "replacements" be the cause of all this conflict. It doesn't make any logical sense.