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  1. #76
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    The thing about the glasses is that they were originally part of a larger persona. Clark didn't just wear glasses, he slumped his shoulders, changed the tenor of his voice, and adopted a meek and mild mannered persona. His personality was the exact opposite of Superman's. That was on purpose. To throw people off. The glasses are the only aspect of that persona that they've still kept. The best example of this is All Star Superman. Grant Morrison gets it. He didn't just wear glasses, he made himself look like a fat shlub with bad hair. That's the irony of the Byrne reboot. By making Clark Kent the "REAL" persona and Superman a character he plays, they made him even easier to spot. If all Clark is is "Superman with glasses" then, yeah, he's gonna get spotted fairly quickly. George Clooney with glasses doesn't look like a different person. He looks like George Clooney with glasses. You take the most famous man in the world and put glasses on him, he's gonna stand out like a sore thumb.

    If Clark has the same build, facial features and voice as Superman, people are going to notice. Shuster and Seigel never intended Clark to be a real person, he was always a disguise for Superman. Very few versions post-Crisis have understood this. Birthright did. ASS did. To some degree, Christopher Reeve did. George Reeve just came across as Superman in a suit. Dean Cain didn't even try. That was the joke. Superman is standing next to Lois in a glasses and she can't even see him. Compare this to someone like Green Arrow who had a beard that nobody has worn since the 15th century even in his "secret identity". Mike Grell made fun of this in his run with "it's supposed to be a secret?" jokes. This is why I like the idea of super-hero masks having those white eyes be part of their mask. It makes it easier to hide. Batman seems like the only one who could pull it off since his covers most of his face. And only if Bruce Wayne doesn't have a particular obvious chin.

    One of the solutions I came up with was what if he has low level telepathy? This allows him to throw people off mentally so they don't make too big a distinction. And even then, it would only really need to be around the Planet staff since they know both him and Superman. It can be connected to the same telekinetic field that allows him to fly.

  2. #77
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Why can Robin/ Green Arrow/ Green Lantern, etc., wear a little mask that barely covers a little area around their eyes and nobody can see it's the same person? Why doesn't facial recognition technology reveal it is the same person?

    The only difference is that Superman wore the mask (glasses) in his secret identity instead of his super identity.

    Why can't people that know Batman and Bruce Wayne just glance at Batman and wonder why Bruce is wearing a Batman mask? Or at Bruce and realize they saw him the other day in the Batman costume?

    I remember coming to work one cold day wearing a ski mask and, of course, everyone said hello to me by name and I joked, "I knew that secret identity stuff didn't work".

    Granted we all (I think) know that none of this stuff would work in reality. But I guess sometimes I wonder why Superman gets singled out for this when there is a list of characters a mile long who use just about exactly the same technique and it is just as unrealistic in terms of real life.
    Batman's easy. (except in gross misrepresentations) He keeps to the shadows and his mask/cowl not only hides his features, but distorts the appearance of the shape of his head. Plus, as Wayne, he poses as a useless fop, sabotaging observers' ability to connect Wayne with Batman.

  3. #78
    Mighty Member adkal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    If Clark has the same build, facial features and voice as Superman, people are going to notice. Shuster and Seigel never intended Clark to be a real person, he was always a disguise for Superman.
    And yet Action Comics issue 1 has Superman as the disguise

  4. #79
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    While Superman set the trend for his followers in the late '30s and early '40s--prior to that, comic book heroes didn't have alter egos, they were always on (as we useed to say)--many of the other super-heroes followed suit and made even less effort to disguise themselves. This was just a fact of life for readers at that time. Black Condor, Wonder Woman, Starman, Doll Man, Bulletman, Phantom Lady, Amazing Man, Captain Marvel Jr., Mary Marvel, Captain Triumph . . . I could go on and on. None of them made an effort to change their appearance, other than glasses or a hat or a hood in a few cases. That was just one of those rules of comic books you accepted.

    The reason Superman seems unusual now is that he survived. All those other heroes died off, but Superman, being the king of comic books, survived all of them.* So now he looks unusual in contrast to whatever hot trending hero has caught everyone's fancy today. But I like heroes to retain their original atmosphere. I like that each character in the Justice League wears the time period in which he was created as a badge of honour. That's why I don't like stealing people's underpants or getting rid of Kirby krackle. I like to look at a comic book page and recognize when each hero was created and the particular trends that gave rise to that hero.

    *Well, except for Wonder Woman. But look at the misfortunes that have befallen Diana Prince over the years since her glory days in the '40s.
    Last edited by Jim Kelly; 12-13-2015 at 08:44 AM.

  5. #80
    Incredible Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Batman's easy. (except in gross misrepresentations) He keeps to the shadows and his mask/cowl not only hides his features, but distorts the appearance of the shape of his head. Plus, as Wayne, he poses as a useless fop, sabotaging observers' ability to connect Wayne with Batman.
    On the other hand . . . let me cut-and-paste something I said several years ago about how Batman's secret identity was in peril when I first began collecting his monthly adventures! (In 1982.)




    When I started buying the “Batman” and “Detective Comics” titles in 1982, I arrived just in time to see Vicki Vale showing Alfred Pennyworth a collection of photos she had taken of Bruce Wayne and of Batman. She had measured their chins and things from various angles and thought their jaws, the shapes and sizes of their skulls, etc., were incredibly similar. She was almost certain they were the same man. But she didn’t “know” in the sense of having fingerprints or DNA evidence. She didn’t “know” in the sense that she had ever seen Batman removing his mask to reveal the face of Bruce Wayne. She didn’t “know” in the sense that Batman (or anyone else who knew, or claimed to know) had ever told her the secret. And she didn’t seem 100% sure of her own conclusions, since she was voluntarily offering to hold off on publishing her results for several weeks while giving Alfred a fair chance to find a way to disprove her hypothesis, if he could.

    (As indeed he did – with the help of Christopher Chance, the Human Target, who didn’t know what the real purpose of impersonating Bruce Wayne was supposed to be, but did a fine job of it!)

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Back after Knightfall when Azbats first took over, I remember commenting that the 'full helmet/mask' REALLY made sense for Batman. I couldn't see WHY Bruce keeps his chin/mouth exposed like that. Any random cut or burn or bruise is going to show up on the tabloids the following day when Bruce walks out in public. For Batman his 'face' is serious part of his disguise. Nobody knows Clark Kent... but EVERYONE knows Bruce Wayne.

    I laughed during 'no man's land', when Helena/Batgirl came to that same conclusion after being hit with some spraypaint all over her chin/mouth... hence Batgirl II had that hole stiched closed.

  7. #82
    Incredible Member Lorendiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    If Clark has the same build, facial features and voice as Superman, people are going to notice. Shuster and Seigel never intended Clark to be a real person, he was always a disguise for Superman. Very few versions post-Crisis have understood this. Birthright did. ASS did. To some degree, Christopher Reeve did. George Reeve just came across as Superman in a suit. Dean Cain didn't even try. That was the joke. Superman is standing next to Lois in a glasses and she can't even see him. Compare this to someone like Green Arrow who had a beard that nobody has worn since the 15th century even in his "secret identity". Mike Grell made fun of this in his run with "it's supposed to be a secret?" jokes.
    This reminds me of something. Back around the late 1990s, when Alan Moore was doing his reboot of Rob Liefeld's "Supreme" and turning it into a good-humored pastiche of Silver Age Superman continuity, Moore had one scene in which "Ethan Crane" (Supreme's secret identity) reveals his true identity to Diana Dane. I can't quote it verbatim but part of the ensuing conversation goes something like this:

    She says something to the effect that she doesn't understand how just putting on a pair of glasses and combing his hair differently can make it impossible for people to recognize "Supreme." And Supreme says that he doesn't have a clue how it works either, but he's learned it always does! He says that back in his younger days, he used to color his hair black whenever he was in costume so that the resemblance to white-haired young Ethan wouldn't be quite so glaringly obvious, but by the end of World War II he'd realized he could just abandon that ruse entirely -- it didn't matter what color his hair was in either identity; people were always utterly unable to penetrate his disguise whenever he put the glasses on!

    In other words, Alan Moore wasn't even trying to come up with a complicated excuse for why this secret identity routine had worked so well for so long. Instead, he was humorously implying the following: "Of course it makes no sense! Even the characters recognize that it doesn't make any sense! But it seems to be a natural law of their universe that this disguise is utterly impenetrable, and that's that!"

  8. #83
    Wakanda Forever Xero Kaiser's Avatar
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    Honestly, some superhero concepts are so silly that the best thing you can do is embrace the silliness and have fun with it. Don't bother trying to explain his disguise because no explanation ever really works IMO.

  9. #84
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    Mentioning Wonder Woman earlier reminded me that on the WONDER WOMAN TV show, in the late '70s, while Lynda Carter wears glasses as Diana Prince, when the show is set in the '40s, that's not the case once the show is set in modern day. Diana Prince looks exactly the same as Wonder Woman, but nobody seems to realize this. Ms Prince will say to someone that she's going to get Wonder Woman, go out of the room, come back as Wonder Woman--and nobody says, "Hey, you just went out of the room and changed your clothes. What gives?"

  10. #85
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Mentioning Wonder Woman earlier reminded me that on the WONDER WOMAN TV show, in the late '70s, while Lynda Carter wears glasses as Diana Prince, when the show is set in the '40s, that's not the case once the show is set in modern day. Diana Prince looks exactly the same as Wonder Woman, but nobody seems to realize this. Ms Prince will say to someone that she's going to get Wonder Woman, go out of the room, come back as Wonder Woman--and nobody says, "Hey, you just went out of the room and changed your clothes. What gives?"
    I saw the show on its original run and never even noticed that. Maybe because I was so irritated that the modern (1970's) era started with a blatant Star Wars ripoff and casting someone else instead of Tim O'Connor as Andros.

    But it brings back the same question of why Superman gets singled out for this when there are plenty of characters who have secret identities that are just as flimsy, especially the domino mask characters that are the same thing as putting on a pair of glasses.

    To me, asking, "Why can Superman disguise himself just by putting on a pair of glasses?" is about the same as, "How can Superman fly into and out of Clark's apartment window so fast you can't see him but it doesn't cause a hurricane?" Why can Robin wear a little mask around his eyes but nobody can see it's Dick Grayson (or whoever is currently Robin)? Why can readers laugh that off as simply the genre but there is something that demands a believable explanation with Superman?
    Power with Girl is better.

  11. #86
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Spoilers if needed:



    Nice to see on Supergirl that Cat Grant was smart enough to figure out that Kara is Supergirl even with the glasses on and had Kara confirm it by taking off the glasses. (And the producers were smart enough to not make Cat Grant unbelievably clueless.) Maybe Lois Lane is just stupid?

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xero Kaiser View Post
    Honestly, some superhero concepts are so silly that the best thing you can do is embrace the silliness and have fun with it. Don't bother trying to explain his disguise because no explanation ever really works IMO.
    Basically yeah

  13. #88
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    It's odd that people usually target Lois as being the stupid one. I think I've already said here that she's the one in Metropolis who figures it out and tries to prove her case--only Superman keeps proving her wrong. So why is Lois dumped on? What about the millions of other people in Metropolis? Okay not all of them work with Clark and see Superman on a regular basis, but there's a fair number that do.

    It is frustrating that Flash tells everyone else he's Barry Allen, but he withholds that information from Patty Spivot on this season of FLASH--or from Iris last season. But love makes us do crazy things. Or writers do crazy things to keep the sexual tension going in their stories. As soon as Clark's secret is admitted to Lois, there's no love triangle to work with. And as Jules Feiffer pointed out the oddball love triangle between Clark/Lois/Superman was one of the genius things about Siegel and Shuster's Superman. Get rid of the love triangle and all the funny bits and dramatic bits are gone and now the creators have to go looking for something else to heat up their stories. So I can understand why they are so hesitant to let go of that device.

    Steve Englehart played with that idea in his classic Sliver St. Cloud stories--where she spots the obvious chin of Bruce Wayne on Batman. But that was a close-ended story. There was nothing left to do with Silver but hurry her out of town and out of the Batman stories. That's the dilemma for most girlfriends--once the secret is out, there are only so many ways things can go. She gets dumped and never heard from again. She ends up in the friend zone, but no longer the love interest. She marries the hero (with all the outcry from fandom). Or she gets killed off. In fact, it's likely that most girl friends who learn the secret will eventually get killed off, even if they go through those other stages first. So if a girl friend figures it out, she's probably best off to keep the secret to herself, so she might continue to appear in the comic book or on the TV show.

  14. #89
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    It's odd that people usually target Lois as being the stupid one. I think I've already said here that she's the one in Metropolis who figures it out and tries to prove her case--only Superman keeps proving her wrong. So why is Lois dumped on? What about the millions of other people in Metropolis? Okay not all of them work with Clark and see Superman on a regular basis, but there's a fair number that do.
    But how many really hang out with both? Jimmy? Anyone else? Perry has worked with Clark for years, but doesn't really hang out with superman. They can compare pictures of course, but then it's the question of blurriness or whatnot. (on a separate note, I always the thought the blurring his face thing was stupid. Same with golden age Flash. Superman has said in the past that he doesn't wear a mask so people trust him... but is supposed to blur his face in all situations?? Ridiculous.)

    Lois gets the most grief because she hangs out with clark every day then spends her evenings getting carried by superman while gazing lovingly in his eyes. She spends WAYYYYY too much time looking at their faces to get the free pass that more casual aquaintences get.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    It is frustrating that Flash tells everyone else he's Barry Allen, but he withholds that information from Patty Spivot on this season of FLASH--or from Iris last season. But love makes us do crazy things. Or writers do crazy things to keep the sexual tension going in their stories.
    I have no problem with him keeping the secret from Patty. She's new... he REALLY doesn't know her that well yet. What is a potential love interest one day... may be evil arch-nemesis the next. Daredevil told Karen his secret... years later she sold it for some drugs. Trust is a crazy thing with something like that.

    The big problem I have is telling EVERYONE ELSE... When Hawkgirl and Captain Cold find out in their first couple meetings... then it's getting a bit crazy. Just... Wear the mask man!

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    But how many really hang out with both? Jimmy? Anyone else? Perry has worked with Clark for years, but doesn't really hang out with superman. They can compare pictures of course, but then it's the question of blurriness or whatnot. (on a separate note, I always the thought the blurring his face thing was stupid. Same with golden age Flash. Superman has said in the past that he doesn't wear a mask so people trust him... but is supposed to blur his face in all situations?? Ridiculous.)

    Lois gets the most grief because she hangs out with clark every day then spends her evenings getting carried by superman while gazing lovingly in his eyes. She spends WAYYYYY too much time looking at their faces to get the free pass that more casual aquaintences get.




    I have no problem with him keeping the secret from Patty. She's new... he REALLY doesn't know her that well yet. What is a potential love interest one day... may be evil arch-nemesis the next. Daredevil told Karen his secret... years later she sold it for some drugs. Trust is a crazy thing with something like that.

    The big problem I have is telling EVERYONE ELSE... When Hawkgirl and Captain Cold find out in their first couple meetings... then it's getting a bit crazy. Just... Wear the mask man!
    Leaving aside the two decades or so Post-Crisis in which she was Clark's Secret Keeper, stories about Lois strongly suspecting (but being unable to prove) the truth date all the way back to 1942. It doesn't help that when adaptations have her knowing the secret from the beginning fans whine about it like in Man of Steel.

    I think Cisco told Hawkgirl about Barry. And he had to reveal it to Snart because he threatened his brother. So neither was Barry's fault.

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