Lois and Clark ongoing? Yes or no.

[misslane]

No I don't think Lois and clark should be a ongoing because it is already running out of steam and scrapping the bottom of the barrel for storylines. I mean do they really have to do another story where new superman meets an old superman from a different universe, I feel like we have already seen this story.

I guess that's the reason it has such low sales and that no one wants to see the marriage return. Funny that, especially when certain individuals where mocking sale numbers of other books.

Well, SM/WW sales have gone down by about 10,000 in just a year, which actually surprised me. Not because it's an uncharacteristically huge drop, but more so that if it has another year like that, it could be in peril.

Anyway, Yang is the one writing the issue where the two Supermen meet. It's not in the Lois and Clark book. I'd rather see Superman saving cities from earthquakes than beating up a defenseless Parasite while treating his goddess girlfriend like garbage. Sales for this book reflect the overall health of DC at the moment, particularly the health of the Superman line, which isn't good. It also reflects the results of the company's lack of promotion and support of the book as well as its decision to restrict the characters to the current Earth instead of their own or another one. I also think the fact that it was a limited series could have affected buying habits; many could have decided just to wait for the trade instead of buy individual issues.

[HsssH]

When you're cutting short limited events that were already limited to begin with, it sounds like they've got editorial problems. First it was an ongoing, then a 12 issue series, and now it's been cut back to 8? Obviously this "new direction" they went in isn't working out. If they're changing the ending of stories (there's rumors that Truth is also being cut short due to unpopularity) it's not a good sign. I would love to be a fly on the wall at DC these days. Sounds like they are in the middle of upending their entire line out of fear of what's going on at Marvel right now. The new Star Wars movie is also probably a factor. That's a good card to have in your deck.

It was a sagging line that made WB step in and force DC to reboot in the first place. They've played their trump card already.

I think these cuts are due to sales:

Lois and Clark #2: 22,898
Telos #2: 11,202

Lois and Clark is lowest selling Superman title by big margin while still on its second issue. If it went for whole 12 issues run it probably would struggle to even make TOP 300. I'm sure that anti-new52 people will find excuses, but this was perfect chance to show how you liked pre-Flashpoint Superman (and his relationship with Lois) better, you either didn't or there isn't enough of you to make a difference that DC would notice.

[ssupes]

Well, SM/WW sales have gone down by about 10,000 in just a year, which actually surprised me. Not because it's an uncharacteristically huge drop, but more so that if it has another year like that, it could be in peril.

I wouldn't worry about the SM/WW book because the difference between this book and the current book we are supposed to be discussing is that people still want to read this book rather then a VERY VOCAL group of Tumblr posters, so what will happen is when numbers get to worrying levels they will bring in a new team to boost numbers or at worst case scenario renumber the book back to number #1.

Anyway, Yang is the one writing the issue where the two Supermen meet. It's not in the Lois and Clark book.

Actually your right I do admit it, and yes the solicit for that book sounds completely original....

Wait a minute...

I'd rather see Superman saving cities from earthquakes than beating up a defenseless Parasite while treating his goddess girlfriend like garbage.

Don't know why your bringing up the Superman Wonder Woman book, I guess you've been holding in that criticism all that time that you had to release it on a unrelated post.
Look I'm not defending recent events that have happened in the book, I stand opposed to the developments. But rather then blame the relationship like everyone seems to jump onto, I blame the writhing of this whole lame event that I wish would end so I can go back to reading good stories again.

Sales for this book reflect the overall health of DC at the moment, particularly the health of the Superman line, which isn't good. It also reflects the results of the company's lack of promotion and support of the book as well as its decision to restrict the characters to the current Earth instead of their own or another one.

Comic book sales are still up on where they where before the reboot and the reasons Marvel has dominated this month is because of all the new number #1's and the star wars comics. Also I find that people are sick of the whole "truth" event.
And as for lack promotion really? Because I see a new interview or article about the book every other week. Way more then I have seen from other books.

I also think the fact that it was a limited series could have affected buying habits; many could have decided just to wait for the trade instead of buy individual issues.

Wasn't Superman Unchained a limited series and that still sold well?
The only waiting I will do is to see new calls for a new Lois Lane lead book as people choose to forget the sales of this book and the last book.

[Ascended]

Huh? Since when was this book giving fans what they wanted? It gave us something close, but it wasn't Superman and Lois living like Superman and Lois with him as Superman and them both working as reporters for The Daily Planet with their entire supporting cast and villains. Back when that was the main universe, it sold better than a lot of what DC is selling now.

Also, please refrain from stating so absolutely that "no one" was reading the book. I get that it's hyperbole, but it isn't fair. People did read it. You say in your own post that there are people who are enjoying it. From what I can tell, Lois and Clark sold well for DC in digital, which makes sense since its audience is probably a lot like me: a new comic reader who is female and would rather not get hard copies from my LCS. My guess is DC decided to cut TRUTH short and also wanted to do something big for the 52nd issues of the New 52. That timing meant that its originally planned 12-issue miniseries would get let less than the planned issues.

Which would be a huge oversight on DC's part. Its not like the 52nd issues came as a surprise to anyone. So yeah, I can totally see that being the case. It seems like something DC's management wouldnt think of until the very last minute. (sigh)

Im also reading L&C digitally and, more or less, enjoying it. But typing "no one is reading the book" is slightly easier than typing "About 23 thousand people are reading it but clearly thats not enough to generate any kind of real confidence because even at #1 its 35 thousand readers couldnt outsell anything except SM/WW". Call me lazy.

And yes, I know, Lois and Clark are not on their earth. So yes, DC didnt give people "exactly" what they wanted. But come on, its the exact same characters, not even copies from a similar but slightly different version of that continuity. They're married, they have a kid. Clark has a "S" on his chest and saves people. Lois uses her investigative skills to take down bad guys. Its as close to pre-52 as you were ever going to get.

For the record, I'd have rather seen them on their own earth too. But just the fact that they have a book to read at all is impressive.

People seem to forget just how bad sales were before the reboot. I mean, in September 2009, the highest selling regular Super-title was Superman, at 37K. New Krypton #7 was also at 37K and both were out of the Top 50. Secret Origin #1 sold 54K and didnt break the top 25. That was a Johns book by the way, and a big shiny #1 on top of that. In September 2010 (a year from reboot) Action #1 sold 33K and was the highest selling Super-title. It didnt break the Top 50. To contrast, in September 2015, Superman was the top selling Super-title with 44K sales and was in the top 25. The sales spike from TRUTH had ended months before and the 44K is on the low end of the Super-titles average sales. So even doing slightly worse than usual, Superman sells better now than he did before the 52.

From DC's point of view they owe post-Crisis and its fans nothing. Those low sales are why they rebooted in the first place, so instead of complaining that L&C isnt exactly what you wanted it to be, be thankful it exists at all. If I was DC's CEO I never would have green-lit the project. Post-Crisis didnt sell then, there's no reason to think it would sell now. And looking at sales, I would have been right.

[misslane]

I wouldn't worry about the SM/WW book because the difference between this book and the current book we are supposed to be discussing is that people still want to read this book rather then a VERY VOCAL group of Tumblr posters, so what will happen is when numbers get to worrying levels they will bring in a new team to boost numbers or at worst case scenario renumber the book back to number #1.

I can respect that you are optimistic about a book and a couple you love (I feel the same way about what I like), but losing over 10K in readers in one year, which could be repeated in another, could lead SM/WW into the 20K area that would be justification for cancellation. I think "Truth" has done a lot of damage to the entire Superman line, and DC is struggling as more and more people decide to spend their money on Marvel books instead of DC books. As someone who has experienced this myself, just because people like something doesn't mean it translates into sales. I'm sure there are still SM/WW fans, just as there are SM/LL fans. However, sometimes that just isn't enough.

Actually your right I do admit it, and yes the solicit for that book sounds completely original....

Wait a minute...

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean or be about. You criticized the idea of two different Supermen encountering each other as a hackneyed one, and you made it sound like you were attributing that plot to Jurgens' Lois and Clark book instead of the book it's actually appearing in: Yang's Superman. Now your complaint is that the Lois and Clark book is like Superman Returns?

Don't know why your bringing up the Superman Wonder Woman book, I guess you've been holding in that criticism all that time that you had to release it on a unrelated post.
Look I'm not defending recent events that have happened in the book, I stand opposed to the developments. But rather then blame the relationship like everyone seems to jump onto, I blame the writhing of this whole lame event that I wish would end so I can go back to reading good stories again.

I discussed SM/WW's book because you brought up implicitly when you said, "I guess that's the reason it has such low sales and that no one wants to see the marriage return. Funny that, especially when certain individuals where mocking sale numbers of other books." That comment of yours is proof enough that you were lashing out based on bitterness for past criticisms, and trying to prop up what you like by putting down the competition. You took the offensive first.

Comic book sales are still up on where they where before the reboot and the reasons Marvel has dominated this month is because of all the new number #1's and the star wars comics. Also I find that people are sick of the whole "truth" event.
And as for lack promotion really? Because I see a new interview or article about the book every other week. Way more then I have seen from other books.

Sales aren't as good for Superman books pre-reboot. There is only a few thousand copies in sales difference between Superman then and now. Action Comics is even worse. The last Action Comics, #903, sold 40,205 copies. This November's Action Comics #46 sold 35,569 copies. Things are not looking good for DC or Superman at all right now.

Wasn't Superman Unchained a limited series and that still sold well?

It did okay. However, it had a more popular creative team in superstar Batman writer Scott Snyder and artist Jim Lee. It's not really comparable.

The only waiting I will do is to see new calls for a new Lois Lane lead book as people choose to forget the sales of this book and the last book.

Like anything, a project needs a good creative team and lots of enthusiasm and promotion. Without that, and with a sinking ship of a company like DC, even things with potential can suffer. Lois Lane is loved and can be successful. Her young adult novel series is a success, earning sequels and accolades from professional organizations. Comics by a Superman office that engages in sexual harassment of its workforce, supports ideas like "Truth" that has done more harm than good, and generally does a disservice to its female characters like Wonder Woman and Lois Lane, have an uphill battle. It's a shame, too. There is so much wasted potential.

[misslane]

And yes, I know, Lois and Clark are not on their earth. So yes, DC didnt give people "exactly" what they wanted. But come on, its the exact same characters, not even copies from a similar but slightly different version of that continuity. They're married, they have a kid. Clark has a "S" on his chest and saves people. Lois uses her investigative skills to take down bad guys. Its as close to pre-52 as you were ever going to get.

For some, I don't think it would have been close enough. I also think those that liked those characters and would have liked this comic have already been lost. They don't pay attention to comics anymore, because they felt disenchanted with them since WoNK separated Lois and Clark, didn't give them proper closure, then treated them like garbage in the New 52. DC burned bridges that are unlikely to be repaired. If they even were slightly interested in giving them another try, my guess is they thought they'd wait for the trade instead of bothering with monthlies.

People seem to forget just how bad sales were before the reboot. I mean, in September 2009, the highest selling regular Super-title was Superman, at 37K. New Krypton #7 was also at 37K and both were out of the Top 50. Secret Origin #1 sold 54K and didnt break the top 25. That was a Johns book by the way, and a big shiny #1 on top of that. In September 2010 (a year from reboot) Action #1 sold 33K and was the highest selling Super-title. It didnt break the Top 50. To contrast, in September 2015, Superman was the top selling Super-title with 44K sales and was in the top 25. The sales spike from TRUTH had ended months before and the 44K is on the low end of the Super-titles average sales. So even doing slightly worse than usual, Superman sells better now than he did before the 52.

I disagree. Action Comics #46 sold 35,569 copies this November. It sold 40K in 2011, and if attrition keeps happening, it will be at pre-reboot levels soon enough; this disparity is very small at this point.

From DC's point of view they owe post-Crisis and its fans nothing. Those low sales are why they rebooted in the first place, so instead of complaining that L&C isnt exactly what you wanted it to be, be thankful it exists at all. If I was DC's CEO I never would have green-lit the project. Post-Crisis didnt sell then, there's no reason to think it would sell now. And looking at sales, I would have been right.

You misunderstand me, I'm not complaining about the comic not being what I wanted. I liked the idea and still do. However, Lois and Clark as well as pre-Flashpoint fans aren't a monolith. I know that before the book came out there was a lot of commentary expressing a dislike of the concept. I wasn't discouraged from buying, but I can see why others would have been for the story and for its limited issue run, which would have discouraged monthly buying. Barely anything Superman related is doing well right now. Differences in sales now versus pre-reboot are not significantly different. The difference between pre-reboot and now with the Superman is just 5K. The SM/WW book lost 10K just this past year. Unless something drastic happens, the current line will be at pre-reboot levels in mere months. It doesn't look good.

[Ascended]

You misunderstand me, I'm not complaining about the comic not being what I wanted. I liked the idea and still do. However, Lois and Clark as well as pre-Flashpoint fans aren't a monolith. I know that before the book came out there was a lot of commentary expressing a dislike of the concept. I wasn't discouraged from buying, but I can see why others would have been for the story and for its limited issue run, which would have discouraged monthly buying. Barely anything Superman related is doing well right now. Differences in sales now versus pre-reboot are not significantly different. The difference between pre-reboot and now with the Superman is just 5K. The SM/WW book lost 10K just this past year. Unless something drastic happens, the current line will be at pre-reboot levels in mere months. It doesn't look good.

Ah okay, I got ya. I doubt the limited run was much of a factor though, Unchained was a limited series and that sold. American Alien seems to be doing okay, though I havent seen the sales data for last month yet. But who knows, there are tons of factors, many of them un-quantifiable, that go into whether a title sells or not.

As for the sales hitting pre-52 levels, yeah, maybe. Couple things to keep in mind though; right now sales are on the low end of their average. When TRUTH ends there's a likelihood of the numbers increasing slightly as regular readers who tuned out return. We've got 50th anniversary issues about to hit along with a return to status quo. Those things are going to increase sales for a little bit, and possibly elevate them back up for more than a short term spike depending on how well those issues catch on. And while movies dont really provide any benefit to monthly sales they dont hurt either, and BvS is coming up around the same time too.

Also, did you put in the wrong year? Because November of 2011 would be right after the reboot. So if Action is only 5K down from fresh reboot numbers, thats actually pretty decent. Did you mean 2010, or 2011 before September?

People have been claiming that DC would be back down to pre-52 levels for years and it hasnt happened yet. Maybe it'll happen for Superman within the next year. But Im not holding my breath; if anything DC seems capable of generating short-term interest and sales.

[Tayswift]

Ah okay, I got ya. I doubt the limited run was much of a factor though, Unchained was a limited series and that sold. American Alien seems to be doing okay, though I havent seen the sales data for last month yet. But who knows, there are tons of factors, many of them un-quantifiable, that go into whether a title sells or not.

unchained was announced as a ongoing, it had superstar creative team with best seller snyder and Jim lee. american alien has the indie sensation max landis with roster of great artists manapul, dragotta, joelle jones,tommy lee edwards, lee. The situations seems very different to lois and clark, I think being a mini really hurted it

For some, I don't think it would have been close enough. I also think those that liked those characters and would have liked this comic have already been lost. They don't pay attention to comics anymore, because they felt disenchanted with them since WoNK separated Lois and Clark, didn't give them proper closure, then treated them like garbage in the New 52. DC burned bridges that are unlikely to be repaired. If they even were slightly interested in giving them another try, my guess is they thought they'd wait for the trade instead of bothering with monthlies.

well didioand lee said that lois and clark objective was to get the core readers that they need. they said it after the DCYou sales were so bad. Well they could had done that by not treating the fans like garbage and humiliating us. I can see people waiting for the trade, it's not like we can trust DC

You misunderstand me, I'm not complaining about the comic not being what I wanted. I liked the idea and still do. However, Lois and Clark as well as pre-Flashpoint fans aren't a monolith. I know that before the book came out there was a lot of commentary expressing a dislike of the concept. I wasn't discouraged from buying, but I can see why others would have been for the story and for its limited issue run, which would have discouraged monthly buying. Barely anything Superman related is doing well right now. Differences in sales now versus pre-reboot are not significantly different. The difference between pre-reboot and now with the Superman is just 5K. The SM/WW book lost 10K just this past year. Unless something drastic happens, the current line will be at pre-reboot levels in mere months. It doesn't look good.

they probably already are on pre-flashpoint levels if we take out the variant covers

[ssupes]

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean or be about. You criticized the idea of two different Supermen encountering each other as a hackneyed one, and you made it sound like you were attributing that plot to Jurgens' Lois and Clark book instead of the book it's actually appearing in: Yang's Superman. Now your complaint is that the Lois and Clark book is like Superman Returns?

For someone who doesn't get what it's supposed to mean you summed it up pretty good. The only thing missing is that for a book that was supposed break new ground, but it is coming up with the same old stories, much like your past criticisms. It's mostly a reflection that comics tend to repeat the same things really.

I discussed SM/WW's book because you brought up implicitly when you said, "I guess that's the reason it has such low sales and that no one wants to see the marriage return. Funny that, especially when certain individuals where mocking sale numbers of other books." That comment of yours is proof enough that you were lashing out based on bitterness for past criticisms, and trying to prop up what you like by putting down the competition. You took the offensive first.

Yeah I'll somewhat admit it due to being tired of seeing the same criticisms really and last months fiasco on the SMWW discussion page. Sorry for being some what a douche (okay a full one). But it does prove that people still want to see the current continuity to continue rather then reviving the old.

Sales aren't as good for Superman books pre-reboot. There is only a few thousand copies in sales difference between Superman then and now. Action Comics is even worse. The last Action Comics, #903, sold 40,205 copies. This November's Action Comics #46 sold 35,569 copies. Things are not looking good for DC or Superman at all right now.

Well yeah but I imagine the same will happen. They bring in a new editor, promises of radical change, renewed interest and so forth. Unfortunately low sales isn't a new thing in the comic book world.

It did okay. However, it had a more popular creative team in superstar Batman writer Scott Snyder and artist Jim Lee. It's not really comparable.

Still it's a limited series with something better, a former superman writer so they are not so different.

Like anything, a project needs a good creative team and lots of enthusiasm and promotion. Without that, and with a sinking ship of a company like DC, even things with potential can suffer. Lois Lane is loved and can be successful. Her young adult novel series is a success, earning sequels and accolades from professional organizations. Comics by a Superman office that engages in sexual harassment of its workforce, supports ideas like "Truth" that has done more harm than good, and generally does a disservice to its female characters like Wonder Woman and Lois Lane, have an uphill battle. It's a shame, too. There is so much wasted potential.

I still think that the book received enough promotion but I can't really argue with the rest. Though I do find Lois tends to be a marmite character in terms of you either love her or hate her and no real middle ground and the sexual harassment is somewhat alleged. But yeah I'm pretty much done here.

[Ascended]

unchained was announced as a ongoing, it had superstar creative team with best seller snyder and Jim lee. american alien has the indie sensation max landis with roster of great artists manapul, dragotta, joelle jones,tommy lee edwards, lee. The situations seems very different to lois and clark, I think being a mini really hurted it

L&C is being written by Dan Jurgens, the darling of the Triangle era for Superman comics (though I think Roger Stern deserves more credit and love than he gets) and a well known name. Certainly the lack of a Johns or Bendis level writer has resulted in lower sales than if someone like that were attached, but its not like Pak, Tomasi, or Yang are super well known, sales generating names. I'd wager that Jurgens' name still carries at least as much clout as them, and the book still isnt selling.

There are a ton of things behind the scenes we are not privy to. There are lots of reasons for a book to succeed or fail on every level from WB's management to retailers to us fans. But I think, given what we know, the only reason L&C is selling as poorly as it is, is because there just isnt enough interest in it. All the other reasons Ive heard for its sales (no marketing, no variant covers, Didio is an evil wizard) just sound like excuses made by people who dont want to accept that their opinion is not the majority.

For the record, Ive enjoyed the book too. But my personal opinion is not a reflection of the market at large.

Misslane, just so you know, I dont mean "everyone" by that statement. Dont mind the hyperbole, like I said, Im lazy.

[manduck37]

It's a shame the book isn't doing better. I've really enjoyed what I've read so far and think it's a fun book. I look forward to the next issue. As for the reasons it's not selling, I could only speculate. It could be any number of reasons or combination of reasons. Though when you think about it, it really couldn't last. It's not like they are going to get rid of everything they did with Nu52 Superman in favor of L&C. So it would always be a fringe book or an out of continuity book. Those hardly last, no matter how good they are. Just look at Adventures of Superman. One of the great tragedies of the comic industry is that sometimes good books just don't make it and we may never know why.

[Tayswift]

It's a shame the book isn't doing better. I've really enjoyed what I've read so far and think it's a fun book. I look forward to the next issue. As for the reasons it's not selling, I could only speculate. It could be any number of reasons or combination of reasons. Though when you think about it, it really couldn't last. It's not like they are going to get rid of everything they did with Nu52 Superman in favor of L&C. So it would always be a fringe book or an out of continuity book. Those hardly last, no matter how good they are. Just look at Adventures of Superman. One of the great tragedies of the comic industry is that sometimes good books just don't make it and we may never know why.

i'm at fault of "doesn't matter" not selling. it is a very limiting mindset, I guess the origins of it is on the mega events that will change everything.
at least with me the "don't matter" is stronger at DC than marvel books for a reason IDK

L&C is being written by Dan Jurgens, the darling of the Triangle era for Superman comics (though I think Roger Stern deserves more credit and love than he gets) and a well known name. Certainly the lack of a Johns or Bendis level writer has resulted in lower sales than if someone like that were attached, but its not like Pak, Tomasi, or Yang are super well known, sales generating names. I'd wager that Jurgens' name still carries at least as much clout as them, and the book still isnt selling.

There are a ton of things behind the scenes we are not privy to. There are lots of reasons for a book to succeed or fail on every level from WB's management to retailers to us fans. But I think, given what we know, the only reason L&C is selling as poorly as it is, is because there just isnt enough interest in it. All the other reasons Ive heard for its sales (no marketing, no variant covers, Didio is an evil wizard) just sound like excuses made by people who dont want to accept that their opinion is not the majority.

For the record, Ive enjoyed the book too. But my personal opinion is not a reflection of the market at large.

Misslane, just so you know, I dont mean "everyone" by that statement. Dont mind the hyperbole, like I said, Im lazy.

Jurgen popularity seems to be faded from triangle era to now. I really don't remember his name selling comics, on new 52 JLI didn't got strong sales, aquaman and the others was cancelled due low sales.
Yang is a best seller of OGN with many awards, Tomasi wrote batman and robin, green lantern corps, brightest day maybe not a big seller, but he has considerable name and fame. All those guys have books that matter, they are the main superman and are ongoing comics with variant covers, that already help a lot the sales.

they are important factors (except didio being a evil wizard, he can't do magic to sell more dc books) that impacted the sales. the orders for lois and clark are 62% of action comics, seems majority for me.

[superduperman]

I think in a lot of old fan's minds, there was no good outcome here. Even if he goes back to his old universe, they'll never get to see it again. The only alternatives are for him to stay on an Earth they hate to begin with or lose his powers. Unless he's "restored" as the official Superman with all the old continuity back (His parents still alive, working at the DP, Cyborg in the Titans, GA and BC married with Ollie with the van dyke beard, JLA watchtower on the moon with MM as a member, old JSA, etc.) they have no interest in it. To some degree, we saw this with Secret Wars and Renew Your Vows. Fans didn't want a "resolution", they wanted a restoration. Which means we may never know how many old fans there are still out there if they aren't going to show up. I think the Superman books made a lot mistakes pre-reboot. I know a lot of people didn't care for SO (myself included) and keeping him out of his own title for a year certainly didn't help. Neither did Marvel eating DC's lunch at the box office. Which isn't DC's fault necessarily.

[Tayswift]

I think in a lot of old fan's minds, there was no good outcome here. Even if he goes back to his old universe, they'll never get to see it again. The only alternatives are for him to stay on an Earth they hate to begin with or lose his powers. Unless he's "restored" as the official Superman with all the old continuity back (His parents still alive, working at the DP, Cyborg in the Titans, GA and BC married with Ollie with the van dyke beard, JLA watchtower on the moon with MM as a member, old JSA, etc.) they have no interest in it. To some degree, we saw this with Secret Wars and Renew Your Vows. Fans didn't want a "resolution", they wanted a restoration. Which means we may never know how many old fans there are still out there if they aren't going to show up. I think the Superman books made a lot mistakes pre-reboot. I know a lot of people didn't care for SO (myself included) and keeping him out of his own title for a year certainly didn't help. Neither did Marvel eating DC's lunch at the box office. Which isn't DC's fault necessarily.

i think same can be said from convergence, people expected it to matter or have some restoration. when it didn't happen they just started to drop dc comics.

well it isn't going anywhere, a lois and clark book set on pre-flashpoint world could had done better but it means open the old universe again and DC seems very focuse on earth 0 and earth 2.

[manofsteel1979]

I think the take away is that one thing we can all agree on is the Superman line is in trouble. We just all don't agree on why exactly, aside from new leadership being needed at the editor's chair.

However aside from a few brief moments of greatness here and there since 2003-ish, the Superman line has been constantly in flux, so the more things change, the more they stay the same. I'd like to think just changing editors would start to fix things...but perhaps that is too optimistic. I don't think even getting rid of DiDio would help. I think the issue with Superman goes to the top of Warner Bros. Until someone at the top of the WB wakes up and realizes they are completely mishandling the franchise on nearly all levels (largely due to their Batman fetish, I think), nothing will change and we will continue to see things twist in the wind.