Finch/Azzarello Comparisons and Contrasts

[Silvanus]

It seems like we could still use a thread for Azzarello vs. Finch discussions that otherwise sometimes take over other threads (something I'm often partly responsible for).

I'm pasting in a post from the sales thread, where Gaelforce reminded us to get back to the topic of sales.

The good thin about Finch is that both of your examples of her portrayal of Diana's violence are from her first arc

As you yourself pointed out on the issue 46 thread, "those darn bracelet-blades finally showed up in story and Diana used them on an opponent who was clearly out of her mind. She could have killed Eirene with those things." The fact that she doesn't succeed doesn't negate the fact that she tries to slash Eirene with these blades; this doesn't show that she's peaceful, but only that she's ineffectual. She also slammed an ordinary mortal to the ground (at the dance club) at the beginning of the current arc. Either of these acts would surely have made your list of violent outbursts if they'd happened during the Azzarello run, so I'm not sure why you feel Finch has "learned from her mistakes."

and neither Swamp Thing or the bug creature "said ouch" so they don't count just like Strife's impalement doesn't count for you, right?

You seem to be taking me a bit too literally there, Doc. The exact word "ouch" isn't the important thing. Swamp Thing says "Urggh," which doesn't necessarily strike me as better than "ouch"; but anyway,my real point when I said "not even making the goddess say 'ouch'" was that "impaling" Stife's hand was only a warning shot. It didn't actually hurt her (except for hurting her feelings), and Diana didn't appear inclined to do anything else to her. In the Finch run, however, she was ready to kill the bug man, and it looked like she was ready to at least seriously harm Swamp Thing, had she not been restrained. The bug man needed Cyborg to save his life when Diana was finished with him, and she even says "Clark stopped me from killing" this henchman. Of course, Swamp Thing manages to restrain her pretty easily; but, again, that makes her look not peaceful but ineffectual.

[t hedge coke]

I'm enjoying the Finchs' take more than I was Azzarello's. Nothing against Azz, or anyone else involved, it just wasn't my thing or what I wanted from Wonder Woman. The current run isn't perfect, but it's more fun for me, and I like the new costume.

[Tayswift]

I'm enjoying the Finchs' take more than I was Azzarello's. Nothing against Azz, or anyone else involved, it just wasn't my thing or what I wanted from Wonder Woman. The current run isn't perfect, but it's more fun for me, and I like the new costume.

Azzarello is not my favorite take on ww, but comparing the two runs for me is like taking a oscar winner and a rapsberry award.

what you like on Finch run?

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

I dropped the title as soon as Azzarello left. How much longer is Finch sticking around?

[numberthirty]

See, "Comparison" is going to be a tough one. Factoring the close of the latest issue, it's more "I am continuing the last writer's story." than "Here's my story. Compare."

[Dr. Poison]

It seems like we could still use a thread for Azzarello vs. Finch discussions that otherwise sometimes take over other threads (something I'm often partly responsible for).

I'm pasting in a post from the sales thread, where Gaelforce reminded us to get back to the topic of sales.


As you yourself pointed out on the issue 46 thread, "those darn bracelet-blades finally showed up in story and Diana used them on an opponent who was clearly out of her mind. She could have killed Eirene with those things." The fact that she doesn't succeed doesn't negate the fact that she tries to slash Eirene with these blades; this doesn't show that she's peaceful, but only that she's ineffectual. She also slammed an ordinary mortal to the ground (at the dance club) at the beginning of the current arc. Either of these acts would surely have made your list of violent outbursts if they'd happened during the Azzarello run, so I'm not sure why you feel Finch has "learned from her mistakes."



You seem to be taking me a bit too literally there, Doc. The exact word "ouch" isn't the important thing. Swamp Thing says "Urggh," which doesn't necessarily strike me as better than "ouch"; but anyway,my real point when I said "not even making the goddess say 'ouch'" was that "impaling" Stife's hand was only a warning shot. It didn't actually hurt her (except for hurting her feelings), and Diana didn't appear inclined to do anything else to her. In the Finch run, however, she was ready to kill the bug man, and it looked like she was ready to at least seriously harm Swamp Thing, had she not been restrained. The bug man needed Cyborg to save his life when Diana was finished with him, and she even says "Clark stopped me from killing" this henchman. Of course, Swamp Thing manages to restrain her pretty easily; but, again, that makes her look not peaceful but ineffectual.

Just the sight of the bracelet blades in the latest issue was horrible but in the end, they did little more than cut Eirene a few times who had been physically attacking Diana for quite a while whereas with Diana impaling Strife, Strife had long since stopped her physical assault on anyone. Sure, Strife made some remarks that could be perceived as threatening but she didn't act on them yet Diana still shoved broken glass through Strife's hand in the middle of a crowded, otherwise peaceful, bar.

As for Swamp Thing, due to what was going on with the attack on the town, she thought he was behind it due to his power-set. Yes, she made a bad judgement call but her heart was in the right place and nothing was broken or impaled on Swampy. The same goes for the bug guy.

[Dr. Poison]

I'm enjoying the Finchs' take more than I was Azzarello's. Nothing against Azz, or anyone else involved, it just wasn't my thing or what I wanted from Wonder Woman. The current run isn't perfect, but it's more fun for me, and I like the new costume.

I agree with you except on Finch's new costume. It has really grown off of me over time. It's too busy and I absolutely HATE the bracelet blades. The shoulder armor looks silly as does the skirt/pants combo. That being said, I like that Diana's book is part of the mainstream DCU and folks like Donna Troy, the Justice League, and the Cheetah are finally showing up. Plus I like Finch's art much better than any of the 3 artists from the previous run.

[Tayswift]

I agree with you except on Finch's new costume. It has really grown off of me over time. It's too busy and I absolutely HATE the bracelet blades. The shoulder armor looks silly as does the skirt/pants combo. That being said, I like that Diana's book is part of the mainstream DCU and folks like Donna Troy, the Justice League, and the Cheetah are finally showing up. Plus I like Finch's art much better than any of the 3 artists from the previous run.

well I don't want to see JL, donna that isn't donna on wonder woman. specially if stories were awful. Azzarello had the new gods show up, so nobody can say that azzarello run was completely isolated from mainstream. well I think best runs from last years like hawkeye and batman have very few guests.

[SteveGus]

Most of the problems in what I've read of the Finch run flow from bad decisions made by Azzarello: evil Amazons, evil gods, Zeus parentage, and the MCGuffin of being God of War without portfolio. The fundamental problem is that the character is no longer Wonder Woman in anything but in name. There were stretches of bad writing before the reboot, but there were always basics and a solid foundation to return to. No more. The Finches are digging a deeper hope precisely because they went with Azzarello's concepts rather than Wonder Woman's history and run with them.

[Outside_85]

Just the sight of the bracelet blades in the latest issue was horrible but in the end, they did little more than cut Eirene a few times who had been physically attacking Diana for quite a while whereas with Diana impaling Strife, Strife had long since stopped her physical assault on anyone. Sure, Strife made some remarks that could be perceived as threatening but she didn't act on them yet Diana still shoved broken glass through Strife's hand in the middle of a crowded, otherwise peaceful, bar.

As for Swamp Thing, due to what was going on with the attack on the town, she thought he was behind it due to his power-set. Yes, she made a bad judgement call but her heart was in the right place and nothing was broken or impaled on Swampy. The same goes for the bug guy.

Let just remember that less than 48 hours prior, Diana had to see half a dozen of her sisters kill each other because Strife forced them to.

It's not like there is much of Swamp Thing that really can be broken or impaled to begin with. The difference is that Diana's head was not in the game at all, and she had no justification of trying to cave his head in, the only thing she has is that he looks weird and is in the area.

[Dr. Poison]

Let just remember that less than 48 hours prior, Diana had to see half a dozen of her sisters kill each other because Strife forced them to.

It's not like there is much of Swamp Thing that really can be broken or impaled to begin with. The difference is that Diana's head was not in the game at all, and she had no justification of trying to cave his head in, the only thing she has is that he looks weird and is in the area.

So then if Strife was such a threat, why didn't Diana assault her upon first sight and lock her up on Olympus like she did with Donna?

[Gaelforce]

Most of the problems in what I've read of the Finch run flow from bad decisions made by Azzarello: evil Amazons, evil gods, Zeus parentage, and the MCGuffin of being God of War without portfolio. The fundamental problem is that the character is no longer Wonder Woman in anything but in name. There were stretches of bad writing before the reboot, but there were always basics and a solid foundation to return to. No more. The Finches are digging a deeper hope precisely because they went with Azzarello's concepts rather than Wonder Woman's history and run with them.

Much as I'm not a huge fan of Azzarello, I just don't agree with this concept.

Azzarello set things up with Diana as an undefined god of war, and with the Amazon society poised to deal with the complicated issues of integrating the men who were both blood relatives and combat allies into their society.

Instead of going forward, imo, Finch took it backwards. At the end of Azzarello's Diana had a clear handle on just who she was. It seemed to me to be the major point of the entire over-arcing storyline.

The first thing Finch did was throw this out the window and give us a Diana who was incapable of reconciling the various aspects of her life despite having just spent three years doing just that. She was insecure, angry, and confused about how to be a Queen, a superhero, a god and a girlfriend (all while confessing this to Aquaman while hugging a teddy bear).

Rather than deal with the fascinating concept of integration on Themyscira, Finch referred to the male Amazons as a 'loose end' and just had them all slaughtered.

Hippolyta was left as an animated stone statue which could have been a great source of a plotline, but instead, Finch ignored the 'animated' part, murdered Hippolyta by smashing her unmoving statue-self without anyone seeming to care who did it.

She integrated the JL into a WW storyline that made no sense - an emergency so intense that it required the entire league...to sit around and chat about Diana's confidence problems?

Azzarello left it to the next writer to create the portfolio, and this, I agree, was a potential mistake, but only in the hands of the wrong writer. Instead of using the 'god of war' as a base to start from, all we've gotten is a useless Diana who can't fight her way out of a paper bag.

Finch's explanation is that she is holding back her godly might, yet that wasn't even hinted at in any of the previous issues.

I think the big difference is this - Azzarello, even if you don't like what he wrote, crafted a solid story that made sense. No, I don't like the new origin (too generic) and I don't like the new Amazons, but the story was well thought out. Finch's stories are all over the place, with her just destroying what came before (Hippolyta dead, the male Amazons dead, the dead gods brought back, Zeke/Zeus taking an active role in driving the plot while still teething). I don't think her story lines end well, each of them (the insect people and the Eirene plotline) coming to abrupt, poorly thought out endings.

[Outside_85]

So then if Strife was such a threat, why didn't Diana assault her upon first sight and lock her up on Olympus like she did with Donna?

Because Strife is a goddess and could have served Diana up for bacon if she wanted to?

And yeah, you can't seriously blame Azzarello for Finch being an overall inept and uninterested writer.

[Dr. Poison]

Because Strife is a goddess and could have served Diana up for bacon if she wanted to?

And yeah, you can't seriously blame Azzarello for Finch being an overall inept and uninterested writer.

I don't blame Azzarello for Finch's performance. I more so look at this situation this way: Azzarello left a bag of feces in his wake that DC handed to Finch and said "Here, turn this into gold!"

[Tayswift]

I don't blame Azzarello for Finch's performance. I more so look at this situation this way: Azzarello left a bag of feces in his wake that DC handed to Finch and said "Here, turn this into gold!"

I'm not even a writer and I think I could do more interesting things with what Azzarello left. It had many good things amazons starting to see men with good eyes even if they didn't stay on island. Hippollyta just do a quest to find who is interfering or what magical artefact can make the spell reverse. gof of war, well I could let for next writer. not everything has to be deal at the same time.