Batman at its worst

[Kingcrimsonprog]

The Widening Gyre. Not one redeeming feature in it.

I like the twist, I genuinely didn't see it coming.

[batnbreakfast]

I count myself lucky as I totally forgot about Widening Gyre (bad art and story, bearded Joker reading Ayn Rand)
but what was Fortunate Son?

[Hilden B. Lade]

I feel that Cacophony is the worse of the Kevin Smith books, if only because Widening Gyre's art is at least kinda pretty to look at. Although, I don't know which is worse: Batman bladder splasming all over a classic Year One moment and the turgid romance scenes in The Widening Gyre vs the overall scatological and toilet-humor based direction of Joker's dialogue in Cacophony.

[DrNewGod]

Anything with Bane after "Knightfall". He was a brilliant villain, a bearded-Spock-verse version of Doc Savage. That's a great story, but he just doesn't have the legs of the Joker or Ras. After penetrating Batman's cloak of secrecy, invading the Batcave, and nearly destroying Batman, there's simply no way to defeat him and then try to bring him back without it being a let down.

The runner up is everything shaped by the Adam West show, except Batman '66, which is a deliberately affectionate look back.

[Aioros22]

The way he interacts, and provides contrast to, the rest of the bat-family in stories like Batman: Eternal and B & R Eternal.

And his animated feature being among the best of the franchise, his Arkham feature proving another impactfull take on the Robin/Joker/Batman dinamic, etc. It`s a weird question when you don`t need to be a Jason Todd fan to actually point out good material that came out because of his return.

Anything with Bane after "Knightfall". He was a brilliant villain, a bearded-Spock-verse version of Doc Savage. That's a great story, but he just doesn't have the legs of the Joker or Ras. After penetrating Batman's cloak of secrecy, invading the Batcave, and nearly destroying Batman, there's simply no way to defeat him and then try to bring him back without it being a let down.

The runner up is everything shaped by the Adam West show, except Batman '66, which is a deliberately affectionate look back.

Bane`s interaction with the world of Ras and the Secret Six were certainly good. If he doesn`t have the legs is only because he suffers the same issue of Doomsday. Joker and Ras spent years trying to beat Batman down.

Bane does it in decisive fashion in his first major event, in a way nobody else did before. You can only go down from here.

[ispacehead]

Scott Snyder's Batman has been a long haul for me. It's only now starting to become enjoyable.

David Finch's TDK was pretty poor.

Some really bad Larry Hama & AJ Lieberman issues if I remember correctly.

Azzarello's Broken City.

ASBAR.

Odyssey.

Let me think, I know I can come up with a few more. Luckily the 'bad' Batman stories are outnumbered by the mountainous pile of good stories.

[BlitzMah]

I really like the ones in which Bane wreaks some hard havoc...

[Metamorphosis]

The Widening Gyre. Not one redeeming feature in it.

I read The Widening Gyre at the library in one sitting, in a kind of open-mouthed horror. There were a few scattered moments in it that I liked. One of the worst parts about it is the unfinished ending that no one, including Smith, seems to have any interest in revisiting.

[phantom1592]

Anything with Bane after "Knightfall". He was a brilliant villain, a bearded-Spock-verse version of Doc Savage. That's a great story, but he just doesn't have the legs of the Joker or Ras. After penetrating Batman's cloak of secrecy, invading the Batcave, and nearly destroying Batman, there's simply no way to defeat him and then try to bring him back without it being a let down.

Bane was really lame even back then. He started as a gimmick and can't get out of his own shadow.

1) I can't stand when someone figures out Batman's Identity 'just because'. Seriously... he looked at Wayne and said 'Yep, that's Batman... a hunter knows his prey' or some such tripe.

2) He didn't beat Batman... he beat 'day's without sleep, beaten up by every single member of his rogues gallery' Batman. Not NEARLY as much glory as people think he deserves... The Rematch against a rested batman went VERY, VERY differently...

Once they took away his venom... he's been pretty much all talk.

And his animated feature being among the best of the franchise, his Arkham feature proving another impactfull take on the Robin/Joker/Batman dinamic, etc.

The Red Hood animated feature was better then the actual story. The whole Cliffhanger/Infinite Crisis/One year later bit ruined that book hard. It's the only thing I've enjoyed about Todd's return... and even it wasn't good enough to justify his return. WAY too many robins walking and talking now. When it was just Grayson and Drake it was a fun dynamic... but bringing back Todd and adding Damian?? Too much.

[batnbreakfast]

The Red Hood animated feature was better then the actual story. The whole Cliffhanger/Infinite Crisis/One year later bit ruined that book hard. It's the only thing I've enjoyed about Todd's return... and even it wasn't good enough to justify his return. WAY too many robins walking and talking now. When it was just Grayson and Drake it was a fun dynamic... but bringing back Todd and adding Damian?? Too much.

Thank you. I feel closure. Now I need a hug

I love Death and the Maidens and they did a sequel that ruined it completely. Shutting down ALL the Lazarus Pits just to reopen them months later? There was art from Paul Gulacy, though. That kept it enjoyable for the eyes at least.

[t hedge coke]

Scott Snyder's Batman has been a long haul for me. It's only now starting to become enjoyable.

David Finch's TDK was pretty poor.

Some really bad Larry Hama & AJ Lieberman issues if I remember correctly.

Azzarello's Broken City.

ASBAR.

Odyssey.

Let me think, I know I can come up with a few more. Luckily the 'bad' Batman stories are outnumbered by the mountainous pile of good stories.

Aside from Snyder, I'd have a helluva good week rereading everything else you listed. But, yeah, there were flaws, especially in the sabotaged Finch and Hama runs.

[metsuken]

Yeah I don't think anyone likes Fortunate Son.

For me I can't stand DKSA and ASBAR.

Thank God. I can't believe it took this long for someone to bring up Frank Miller. His ultraviolent Batman revitalization worked in the 80s, but his latest stuff just tries to top TDKR and it comes off as a giant parody of his older work.

Kevin Smith would probably be a lot better if Marvel threw Deadpool his way. For the record, I kind of liked the bladder spasm in The Widening Gyre, though. Batman is always mythologized as a flawless, giant badass that he never really feels human to me. I mean, whatever, he gets sad, he makes mistakes that get people killed, but none of that is trailblazing anymore because every writer does it for every superhero. Having Batman inadvertently piss himself really drove in the idea that he was a total rookie and, at the end of the day, just a dude like us after all.

[Agent Z]

Bane was really lame even back then. He started as a gimmick and can't get out of his own shadow.

1) I can't stand when someone figures out Batman's Identity 'just because'. Seriously... he looked at Wayne and said 'Yep, that's Batman... a hunter knows his prey' or some such tripe.

2) He didn't beat Batman... he beat 'day's without sleep, beaten up by every single member of his rogues gallery' Batman. Not NEARLY as much glory as people think he deserves... The Rematch against a rested batman went VERY, VERY differently...

Once they took away his venom... he's been pretty much all talk.






The Red Hood animated feature was better then the actual story. The whole Cliffhanger/Infinite Crisis/One year later bit ruined that book hard. It's the only thing I've enjoyed about Todd's return... and even it wasn't good enough to justify his return. WAY too many robins walking and talking now. When it was just Grayson and Drake it was a fun dynamic... but bringing back Todd and adding Damian?? Too much.

Bane unleashed those villains on Gotham to deliberately wear Bruce down. He didn't just beat cause he was lucky. And Bane's been shown as strong without the Venom.

[t hedge coke]

Bane unleashed those villains on Gotham to deliberately wear Bruce down. He didn't just beat cause he was lucky. And Bane's been shown as strong without the Venom.

Winning using tactics isn't... winning? He didn't just walk up and punch Batman until Batman fell over forever, so he didn't really beat him.

Except, yeah, he absolutely did.

[phantom1592]

Bane unleashed those villains on Gotham to deliberately wear Bruce down. He didn't just beat cause he was lucky. And Bane's been shown as strong without the Venom.

He was pretty lucky Bruce didn't track him down when he was fresh. Which is pretty much what he would have done if Joker or Penguin had organized a jail break.

Any indication that Bane is as strong without venom as he was with it... is pretty much lip service to build him up again. That's what Venom does. Makes you insanely strong and hard to hurt.

Bane was pretty much Doomsday for Batman. A brand new guy designed entirely to show up and kill/break Batman. He served his purpose well, but bringing him back repeatedly was a mistake.

I enjoyed both Knightfall and Knightsend (didn't care for Knightsquest... or Azbats in general), but that doesn't make Bane less over rated. He wasn't smarter then Batman... he wasn't tougher then Batman... He wasn't a better fighter... He didn't outsmart him... It was just an endurance game that everyone realized was going on at the time. It took a healthy dose of PIS to actually work, and a bit extra PIS for nobody to ever try that game again...

Having Bane magically know Wayne's ID and wait in the batcave after he was nearly passed out, was pretty lame. For the fight that was being teased for what, 12-15 issues? Batman was already broken, weak, exhausted... and pretty much ANYONE could have taken him at that point.