SECRET WAAAAAAAGGGGHH! #8 Spoilers

[jackolover]

I'm living off of "Hello, Susan."

We know this is not Reeds616's Susan. This alternate version Susan loves Victor. I don't know whether Reed would want to get to know this one. But if he does want to make friends with her, it's going to take a lot of work turning her from Vic. I don't know how this is going to pan out, after Secret Wars. Victor makes it to ANAD, but does he have Susan in his apartment cooking dinner? Or does Reed and this Susan go off together and start a relationship when Susan learns Doom didn't create Utopia, but that Reed, the dirty bearded man, makes something better?

[Ken Ashcroft]

All that hype with Thanos...and THATS how it ends? As awesome as that scene was, it was definitely a flat note in an otherwise epic book.

Jim Starlin will be turning in his grave seeing that. Uh, well,he would if he was dead..I bet he's already thinking up yet another Thanos infinity story where he shows what would really have happened in a Thanos vs Doom scene.

[jackolover]

Why would an Infinity Gauntlet even be a threat to Doom? Isn't it supposed to work only in its native universe? Anyway, I really enjoyed Doom as the supreme being. Too bad everything gets rebooted after issue 9.

That particular IG only works in Doomstadt where the battle is going on. Doom could easily make the IG worthless, by teleporting the IG to another Domain. As to what effect the IG could have on Doom while he's in this state? What Doom is doing here on Battleworld traverses all Domains, and thus all Realities. So my conjecture would be that if Doom has trans-reality manipulation abilities, he is a bit out of reach of a single reality artifact like the IG. We saw the IG had only one use when Cap used it, then was destroyed. I don't know how Doctor Strange worked out keeping the IG in his draw, would be an advantage if he ever had to use it. Remember, Strange never magically summoned the IG at his last battle with Doom, (and that's because it wouldn't work in the Negative Zone). But it is intriguing what reality Doomstadt is from, that it has an IG attached to it?

[jackolover]

This is essentially the story of the last stand of the FF against their biggest and most infamous enemy,Dr Doom so it's no surprise that the like of Thanos and others have to take a back street in this series.

I never thought this as the essential story of the final battle of the FF and Doom, because it was Reed616,and, the alternate Susan, Thing and Johnny, not the whole FF616.

But considering the 616, as we once knew it, is destroyed and what we are left with is the 8th iteration of existence, (ANAD), this was the final battle between the FF and Doom even if it was only Reed616.

[raidensix]

We know this is not Reeds616's Susan. This alternate version Susan loves Victor. I don't know whether Reed would want to get to know this one. But if he does want to make friends with her, it's going to take a lot of work turning her from Vic. I don't know how this is going to pan out, after Secret Wars. Victor makes it to ANAD, but does he have Susan in his apartment cooking dinner? Or does Reed and this Susan go off together and start a relationship when Susan learns Doom didn't create Utopia, but that Reed, the dirty bearded man, makes something better?

I always thought they were 616 Susan and kids that Doom managed to save after their ship was damaged.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

I always thought they were 616 Susan and kids that Doom managed to save after their ship was damaged.

I never got that because then they'd look 8 years older...which they don't.

Val looks a little bit older than she did prior to SW, if she aged she'd be like 11-13, and would look like a teenager in comparison.

Same with Frank, but then...who knows with that kid.

Susan would definitely be older as well.

[Nick Miller]

There's too much recycled art in this book. Regardless I really like it. I just hope Doom vs f4/Reed battle isn't done in 2 panels. I still feel like there's lot of stuff we've yet to see.

example? what did you notice?

[Iron Maiden]

I started off with Hickman in the FF and Time Runs Out giving him credit for thinking big and cosmic but he has really disappointed me.
Really, the whole story seems like fan fiction for Doom which ignores decades of Marvel history and lore rather than enriching it.

To write a Thanos this way is just unbelievably ridiculous and to have jettisoned all the cosmics as pawns (and having Galactus basically engage in a slugfest) is hopelessly poor Marvel writing when dealing with such things.

The cosmics are pretty much just a distraction and literally would function as a deux ex machina and do something hand wavy. Most are devoid of any kind of personality. I'd rather see a very human Doom dealing with the issues of being God.
You have to remember that Galacutus is probably at considerably less than full power since he's been on a diet for 8 years. He wouldn't have had a planet to devour to get him back up to peak levels. I don't know if we'll ever find out the details but Doom may have been giving him limited fuel of some kind. The Molecule Man is always talking about being hungry. Maybe he also provides Galactus with some of the stored up powers they took from the Beyonders.

Really liked this issue and the only flaw is I think it would have been better to keep Hickman's original idea of an oversized book. I think the only drawback to that is it probably would have been $5.99 at least and maybe they thought it would be too much for the fans to accept. I'm really going to miss God Doom especially after Bendis's potato chip muching Victor von Doom. Then again, where could he go from here, probably his biggest achievement. None of the heroes can take away from him the accomplishment of saving what could be saved from the Beyonders time bomb experiment. And maintaining things for 8 years. You can talk about some other heroes list of feats but they've got a ways to go to match this. All Hope truly Lay with Doom. Bravo Hickman for being such a great biographer of his favorite villain.

[Some Guy]

Loved this issue so much. This whole event has just been one huge love letter to Marvel's history and the fan service has been so fun. I grinned from ear to ear when Groot burst from the castle. And I thought Hickman wrote Star-Lord really well. I'd love to see him write the Guardians on-going.

[Username taken]

Two things made this great for me:

1. Doom owning Thanos
2. Reed saying "Hello Susan" to his "wife" (?)

That being said, I agree this issue and the last issue should have been sold as one book.

[CaptCleghorn]

We know this is not Reeds616's Susan. This alternate version Susan loves Victor. I don't know whether Reed would want to get to know this one. But if he does want to make friends with her, it's going to take a lot of work turning her from Vic. I don't know how this is going to pan out, after Secret Wars. Victor makes it to ANAD, but does he have Susan in his apartment cooking dinner? Or does Reed and this Susan go off together and start a relationship when Susan learns Doom didn't create Utopia, but that Reed, the dirty bearded man, makes something better?

With the exception of some of the few folks on the cast page of the book, no one's 616. And at the rate the 616ers are dying, it' possible no one is going to make it through the next issue. Reed's statement is important in that it differentiates him from 1610's miniReed. We see the family man returning and that is what makes Reed so much more than those other pale copies.

Reed's now here to play. Vic can $#|+ his pants now.

[Abe]

^ This. ^ This. And ^ This. I mean: Iron Maiden, Some Guy, Username taken. thanks for these three posts. Some things are worth reading.. Nuff said.

EDIT : ^ This too - except the last part - CaptCleghorn, FF purist/snob. I tend to be a Victor snob too!

[Ragdoll]

Did anyone else cry when Ben died?

[jackolover]

Did anybody else notice what Val said to Susan?

"This is some show. It's some show. The spectacle of it. Like Theatre".

Is Val suggesting all of Battleworld, all of the big fight we're seeing now, is somehow just Victor making a piece of Theatre? Like maybe Victor just doing this to satisfy some urge of appearing brutal, but really, he is too tired to play the despot anymore, and all this is just acting out the Victor he once was? So that if you sit down with Victor and ask him what he really wants, it is to be just the hero. He's been lounging around for 8 years in this makeup world, that is supposed to be what Doom would have wanted. But when it comes right down to it, Doom is over all this drama and conflict?

[tribalfusion]

The cosmics are pretty much just a distraction and literally would function as a deux ex machina and do something hand wavy. Most are devoid of any kind of personality. I'd rather see a very human Doom dealing with the issues of being God.
You have to remember that Galacutus is probably at considerably less than full power since he's been on a diet for 8 years. He wouldn't have had a planet to devour to get him back up to peak levels. I don't know if we'll ever find out the details but Doom may have been giving him limited fuel of some kind. The Molecule Man is always talking about being hungry. Maybe he also provides Galactus with some of the stored up powers they took from the Beyonders.

Really liked this issue and the only flaw is I think it would have been better to keep Hickman's original idea of an oversized book. I think the only drawback to that is it probably would have been $5.99 at least and maybe they thought it would be too much for the fans to accept. I'm really going to miss God Doom especially after Bendis's potato chip muching Victor von Doom. Then again, where could he go from here, probably his biggest achievement. None of the heroes can take away from him the accomplishment of saving what could be saved from the Beyonders time bomb experiment. And maintaining things for 8 years. You can talk about some other heroes list of feats but they've got a ways to go to match this. All Hope truly Lay with Doom. Bravo Hickman for being such a great biographer of his favorite villain.

Well, you are a Doom fan so it's obvious why you especially enjoy this but for me it's very poor writing and use of a whole 50 years of universe building. The cosmics are not devoid of personality unless written that way and I have rarely seen Thanos so poorly written for that matter. Very anti-climactic battles and confrontations given the scope we had here in theory and nothing like the old Korvac or original Starlin runs in terms of impact for those of us who have been around a while.

I started off really liking Hickman's saga both in the FF and Time Runs Out largely but this cheapens the whole Marvel tapestry for me considerably. Way, way too much Doom and way, way too little anything else.

In a few years, perhaps someone like Jim Shooter will decree all of it retconned.