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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saffron View Post
    Having non-physical powers isn't automatically feminist. By itself, it's just feminine. In fact, the only reason Wanda even has point-and-shoot powers is because of sexism; she was created at a time in which most female characters conformed to traditional gender roles, and were thus, non-physical.

    As to Wanda's powers, it's link to Chthon is not feminist, in itself, but it provides a space in which feminist themes could be explored. Feminist writing isn't just about lionising women; some of the most compelling works offer feminist critique, and often, this comes about through stories in which characters and situations are not representations of feminist ideals. In other words, it's the narrative as a whole that decides if the writing is feminist or not. You can have feminist elements, but still not have a feminist story. I'm still waiting to see if that describes this book. Imo, powered By Womankind isn't far from the Strong Female Character, nowadays - it needs more nuance than that for me to consider it feminist.



    Hmm...we seem to be talking about different things. Perhaps duality was the wrong word here; I should have said plurality, as in, embodying multiple ideas.
    I agree with everything you said. I hope the nuances come as the series goes on- I was just saying that as a starting point it's a bold choice for a story that seems to indicate it will tackle feminist themes over its course. Which fits the character, to me, as so much of the culture about witchcraft is about the fear of women. Her being a scary woman who gets her power from being a woman works well in light of that, IMHO.

    Also "plurality" does make that more clear, and is a nice word.

  2. #62
    Amazing Member maximoffimpact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    The first issue left me a bit confused and startled. Wanda's character seems much different than the Scarlet Witch that was in the Avengers. She was never a true witch, and didn't really practice witchcraft -- despite some short-term training from Agatha Harkness. Speaking of whom -- Agatha in pants, sarcastic and evidently powerless?! Ho hum. We never really knew whether or not Agatha was killed in the events leading up to Avengers Disassembled -- or if she had died of natural causes, but I guess now we have the disturbing answer.

    Wanda's powers were apparently always linked to magic -- even when we thought she was only controlling probabilities. I believe Busiek is the writer who introduced Chaos Magic -- as the energy Wanda has been controlling all this time. But never was she able to transform and levitate as she stated. I can see how Robinson had to create new elements for a solo series, but to me, this is really a reinvention of the character -- and I'm not sure I'm on board for it.
    In response to a couple of things...

    She was never a true witch, and didn't really practice witchcraft -- despite some short-term training from Agatha Harkness.

    To my recollection, I recall at least a couple of scenes with Wanda practicing/studying magic (or witchcraft?) starting with Busiek's Avengers run. One scene in particular had Wonder Man interrupting her. Also, during the Geoff Johns' Avengers run, I believe Wanda was doing/practicing something with cards (?) and that episode had something to do with a problem involving the beings Order/Chaos. Anyone who has the Avengers Red Zone storyline by Geoff Johns would have seen Wanda doing some amazing things! Amazing in the sense that she exhibited such control and skill in ridding the town of contamination. My point is that starting with Busiek's run, Wanda took a more active role in learning/practicing magic (witchcraft?) which paved the way for her to do some amazing things to save the day with skilled expertise. Wanda also used a couple of spells during the first Uncanny Avengers run that saved the day.

    But never was she able to transform and levitate as she stated.

    Again, the start of Wanda being able to levitate herself seemed to begin with Busiek's Avengers run. The particular scene I mentioned previously, the one in which Wonder Man interrupted her while she was practicing/studying spells showed her levitating a couple of feet in air with her legs folded. Also, Wanda slightly levitated herself when she rid the town of the hazardous red contamination late in Geoff John's Red Zone story. During A vs X she levitated herself periodically. I suspect that as she became more proficient in her studies, and making an effort on her own accord to improve herself, her range of powers evolved/improved also.

    There have not been many scenes shown with Wanda levitating herself or studying/practicing magic/witchcraft, but I took those few scenes as an attempt by the writer to inform the readers that Wanda is taking conscious steps to learn the craft and her powers are evolving as a result of it. It served as a backdrop in a sense to explain how Wanda would be able to do some of the amazing things she would later do.

    Hope that sheds some light on the topic.

  3. #63
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Post Written 2 Times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saffron View Post
    Having non-physical powers isn't automatically feminist. By itself, it's just feminine. In fact, the only reason Wanda even has point-and-shoot powers is because of sexism; she was created at a time in which most female characters conformed to traditional gender roles, and were thus, non-physical.

    As to Wanda's powers, it's link to Chthon is not feminist, in itself, but it provides a space in which feminist themes could be explored. Feminist writing isn't just about lionising women; some of the most compelling works offer feminist critique, and often, this comes about through stories in which characters and situations are not representations of feminist ideals. In other words, it's the narrative as a whole that decides if the writing is feminist or not. You can have feminist elements, but still not have a feminist story. I'm still waiting to see if that describes this book. Imo, powered By Womankind isn't far from the Strong Female Character, nowadays - it needs more nuance than that for me to consider it feminist.

    Hmm...we seem to be talking about different things. Perhaps duality was the wrong word here; I should have said plurality, as in, embodying multiple ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reality View Post
    I agree with everything you said. I hope the nuances come as the series goes on- I was just saying that as a starting point it's a bold choice for a story that seems to indicate it will tackle feminist themes over its course. Which fits the character, to me, as so much of the culture about witchcraft is about the fear of women. Her being a scary woman who gets her power from being a woman works well in light of that, IMHO.

    Also "plurality" does make that more clear, and is a nice word.
    Indeed when I 1st heard that line of the book with Witchcraft and the connection to Womanhood I got allot what James Robinson was going for.

    The main point was the factor of real world beliefs, not just witchcraft but other beliefs that center around the natural world, nature and the focus in Women mainly around the factors of Women being able to give birth to children. This struck me on many levels since this is longtime history I learned about over the years hearing about it and really seeing it being put into a book the makes so much sense in using it really gives me a much better appreciation for the book. Even Me being a Male and a Roman Catholic, I can appreciate and get interested in these themes and the core of them being in real world beliefs based on nature that is firm in both history and still is believed in today.

    For Wanda Maximoff the core of this belief, the ideals of Womanhood and with that nature/mother earth works So Very Well with her on many levels. Why Wanda now more than many other Great Women heroes is that the Beliefs are based on Witchcraft as one of the beliefs and with Wanda having training in being a witch no one else is better for it beside Agatha. Also, Wanda has always been a Very Feminine Lady, many Lady heroes are but for Wanda to have extra focus on this cause it has been a central theme towards her character since the 1960s is good in going hand-n-hand with her persona. It is good to to show that not only can these root personas break free of what might have been at the time like Saffron said, more at the time gender roles for Women and Robinson can do a 180 on it to turn it into a Major Strength!

    Even though Wanda was already strong to bat with this creation in the Silver Age, a way to evolve it to break Many More Glass Ceilings is just Epic and Warming to see done in such a clever way.

    Also, Robinson DID mention in an Article that Wanda Maximoff being both a Witch and a Women will have skills and connections to abilities that Dr. Strange just will not have because of that. THIS will make Wanda much more of the Expert to go in these fields and make her a Powerhouse in her own right in the ANAD Age of Marvel! What I like about this is it just not only makes Wanda More Unique, but it helps to separate the powers of Magic in the Marvel Universe so that it is more based in Variations and not just mostly under one Master like Dr. Strange that knows how to command most of it, and leads to a specialist style of power sharing, Love that Idea Allot Indeed!
    Last edited by CJStriker; 12-18-2015 at 09:36 PM.
    Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyHGXMH6HB0
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    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread!

  4. #64
    Wanda & Ribrianne~4~Life! CJStriker's Avatar
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    ^^^ Nice Job with Your Postings and Examples of History Maximoffimpact, Always a Fine Job Done by you My Friend! =)

    In Support of what You said below


    Quote Originally Posted by maximoffimpact View Post
    In response to a couple of things...

    She was never a true witch, and didn't really practice witchcraft -- despite some short-term training from Agatha Harkness.

    To my recollection, I recall at least a couple of scenes with Wanda practicing/studying magic (or witchcraft?) starting with Busiek's Avengers run. One scene in particular had Wonder Man interrupting her. Also, during the Geoff Johns' Avengers run, I believe Wanda was doing/practicing something with cards (?) and that episode had something to do with a problem involving the beings Order/Chaos. Anyone who has the Avengers Red Zone storyline by Geoff Johns would have seen Wanda doing some amazing things! Amazing in the sense that she exhibited such control and skill in ridding the town of contamination. My point is that starting with Busiek's run, Wanda took a more active role in learning/practicing magic (witchcraft?) which paved the way for her to do some amazing things to save the day with skilled expertise. Wanda also used a couple of spells during the first Uncanny Avengers run that saved the day.

    Hope that sheds some light on the topic.
    Those are Good Examples, Very Good in Supporting an showing Examples of Wanda Practicing Magic/her Spellcraft and it being put to use in the themes of Witchcraft. The Images are below to Backup Maximoffimpact post and also when you read them and look at them you can indeed get the Themes, especially the ones from Red Zone, Avengers Volume 3, Issue #70 of the Witchcraft Themes of Spellcrafting!

    As my Good Friend Maximoffimpact said, Hope that sheds some light on the topics! ;-)








    Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!

    ~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyHGXMH6HB0
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread!

  5. #65
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    It was a strong first issue. I enjoyed it and I love that Agatha is her support.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximoffimpact View Post
    In response to a couple of things...

    But never was she able to transform and levitate as she stated.

    Again, the start of Wanda being able to levitate herself seemed to begin with Busiek's Avengers run. The particular scene I mentioned previously, the one in which Wonder Man interrupted her while she was practicing/studying spells showed her levitating a couple of feet in air with her legs folded. Also, Wanda slightly levitated herself when she rid the town of the hazardous red contamination late in Geoff John's Red Zone story. During A vs X she levitated herself periodically. I suspect that as she became more proficient in her studies, and making an effort on her own accord to improve herself, her range of powers evolved/improved also.

    There have not been many scenes shown with Wanda levitating herself or studying/practicing magic/witchcraft, but I took those few scenes as an attempt by the writer to inform the readers that Wanda is taking conscious steps to learn the craft and her powers are evolving as a result of it. It served as a backdrop in a sense to explain how Wanda would be able to do some of the amazing things she would later do.

    Hope that sheds some light on the topic.
    Support the 2nd part of your Post Maximoffimpact, Yea for not long term or new fans of Wanda this has been a longtime discussed topic among us. Their has Never Really been a "Moment" per say when Wanda officially got the power to fly, really it just short of happen. Artist started to Draw her a 1st levitating in the Busiek era and I am sure times before, but really as time went on outside of BIG TIME spell moments, she just gained the ability to fly to a degree. Mostly I think it was just natural want by creators to see Wanda Flying, just felt right. Now while I and I know other Wanda Fans would have Wanted a MAIN MOMENT when this became a new ability threw a spell or evolution of her powers, but honestly it does not bother me that much since flying Wanda seem only right for her. So it is a mild thing to let it be and accept with allot of Grandness from it! :-)

    As for examples of Levitating and/or Flying, yes indeed the ones I posted above are some and so are more below, Hope This Helps! :-)








    Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!

    ~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyHGXMH6HB0
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arya View Post
    It was a strong first issue. I enjoyed it and I love that Agatha is her support.
    Hey Arya, Very Happy you liked the 1st issue and you felt it was a Strong Showing!

    As for the Dynamic between Agatha and Wanda, that was indeed the meat of the issue. Good Character Interaction and Flow are what separates story strength IMO and you have a Very Long Term and Tight Teacher and Student bond between Agatha and Wanda. Honestly, it was on the levels as my friend Ravin' Ray said with Agatha's Ghost Form, like Luke Skywalker and Obi-Wan style, that is just pure cool especially now with the new Star Wars Movie out!
    Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!

    ~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyHGXMH6HB0
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread!

  8. #68
    Amazing Member maximoffimpact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjstriker View Post
    ^^^ nice job with your postings and examples of history maximoffimpact, always a fine job done by you my friend! =)

    in support of what you said below




    those are good examples, very good in supporting an showing examples of wanda practicing magic/her spellcraft and it being put to use in the themes of witchcraft. the images are below to backup maximoffimpact post and also when you read them and look at them you can indeed get the themes, especially the ones from red zone, avengers volume 3, issue #70 of the witchcraft themes of spellcrafting!

    As my good friend maximoffimpact said, hope that sheds some light on the topics! ;-)








    thank you cj for finding the actual pages of wanda (using levitation and spells) !!! Those are awesome scenes even now after all these years !!! Love it!!!

  9. #69
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    Sadly so Far not Yet Kieran_Frost, it was mostly Wanda and Agatha, not mention about the rest of the Family Sadly.

    I agree though, I am hoping not only to have a mention, but a guest appearance of not only Wiccan but Speed as well, have BOTH of Wanda's Kids even in 1 issue be Epic!
    Ohhhh YES PLEASE!!!!
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  10. #70
    Endangered Member Reality's Avatar
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    Personally, I would love to see all of her extended family. They would be fascinating to see in this context. Just as I would like to see her in Vision, which I'm sure will happen. There are a lot of connections ripe for exploration in her world, for the first time, as opposed to standard superhero teams and team-ups.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    Ohhhh YES PLEASE!!!!
    Indeed it could happen, you have Wiccan now apart of the Avengers Idea Mechanics so he has much globetrotting abilities and Speed is sadly STILL Missing in Action, so he could be anywhere. Both could get tips on where their mother is and could set out to find her, help her and get closer. Honestly since Children's Crusades we need much more of that family bonding IMO!


    Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!

    ~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyHGXMH6HB0
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximoffimpact View Post
    thank you cj for finding the actual pages of wanda (using levitation and spells) !!! Those are awesome scenes even now after all these years !!! Love it!!!
    Very Honored to Help out Maximoffimpact, Their are a Great Many examples of the Arts of Levitation, Spells and Flying our Wanda has Done indeed and I sure am hoping more and more gets shown within the Solo! =)









    Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!

    ~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyHGXMH6HB0
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Come Join and Learn about Wanda Maximoff at: The Scarlet Witch Appreciation Thread!

  13. #73
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    Indeed when I 1st heard that line of the book with Witchcraft and the connection to Womanhood I got allot what James Robinson was going for.

    The main point was the factor of real world beliefs, not just witchcraft but other beliefs that center around the natural world, nature and the focus in Women mainly around the factors of Women being able to give birth to children. This struck me on many levels since this is longtime history I learned about over the years hearing about it and really seeing it being put into a book the makes so much sense in using it really gives me a much better appreciation for the book. Even Me being a Male and a Roman Catholic, I can appreciate and get interested in these themes and the core of them being in real world beliefs based on nature that is firm in both history and still is believed in today.

    For Wanda Maximoff the core of this belief, the ideals of Womanhood and with that nature/mother earth works So Very Well with her on many levels. Why Wanda now more than many other Great Women heroes is that the Beliefs are based on Witchcraft as one of the beliefs and with Wanda having training in being a witch no one else is better for it beside Agatha. Also, Wanda has always been a Very Feminine Lady, many Lady heroes are but for Wanda to have extra focus on this cause it has been a central theme towards her character since the 1960s is good in going hand-n-hand with her persona. It is good to to show that not only can these root personas break free of what might have been at the time like Saffron said, more at the time gender roles for Women and Robinson can do a 180 on it to turn it into a Major Strength!

    Even though Wanda was already strong to bat with this creation in the Silver Age, a way to evolve it to break Many More Glass Ceilings is just Epic and Warming to see done in such a clever way.

    Also, Robinson DID mention in an Article that Wanda Maximoff being both a Witch and a Women will have skills and connections to abilities that Dr. Strange just will not have because of that. THIS will make Wanda much more of the Expert to go in these fields and make her a Powerhouse in her own right in the ANAD Age of Marvel! What I like about this is it just not only makes Wanda More Unique, but it helps to separate the powers of Magic in the Marvel Universe so that it is more based in Variations and not just mostly under one Master like Dr. Strange that knows how to command most of it, and leads to a specialist style of power sharing, Love that Idea Allot Indeed!
    Well whatever womanly powers Robinson is attributing here to Wanda, I don't get it. I have no experience or reference from which to understand it. Maybe if Wanda had a connection to the baby Mother, Earth goddess, of the Mothers 3 of Asgard? Didn't this Godess give birth to Odinson? Wouldn't that make Odinson a more stronger connection for Wanda on Earth? I'm just stretching here, because these themes of womanhood and secret business sounds as familiar as Aboriginal secret women's business. (I once trespassed into a region of the Kimberly in West Australia, and got a strong feeling of connection to that land all of a sudden. A ranger later told me it was woman's country, and I could have got a negative experience of it, but I didn't. I was channeling somebody from there, much like I channeled people from the marshlands of Altona where I grew up).
    Last edited by jackolover; 12-22-2015 at 01:32 AM.

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member Captain Craig's Avatar
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    I'm just jumping into the thread, apologies. I've been behind and just read Scarlet Witch #1
    I'm no Wanda expert, for me she's always been a supporting character. Three things made me pick this up.
    1-I like to try many characters who've not had a solo attempt(like I am with Black Knight) in some time or ever.
    2-I enjoy strong female led books
    3-I felt Robinson as writer would deliver

    This first issue was well crafted. It served two purposes really well I feel. It felt self-contained while also telling you Wanda is going to be seeking out who has let loose this hex Sonnellian. Secondly, it let you in a nutshell know where Wanda is, why she's solo and who her immediate supporting cast of 1 is in Agatha.

    I'm really looking forward to issue #2 now.
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